Digital Extraordinary Administrative Advisory Committee Working Group (16th)

Overview

Date and Time: Wednesday, November 30, 2022 (2022) from 15:00 to 18:00
Location: Online
Agenda:
1. Opening
2. Proceedings
  1. Creation of Age Verification Guidelines for Liquor and Tobacco Sales in the Convenience Store Industry
  2. Response to Financial Industry Requests
  3. Trial Implementation of the Process for Confirmation of Compliance with the Digital Principles for the Bill Scheduled to be Submitted to the Next Ordinary Diet Session
  4. Support for local governments Initiatives
  5. Basic policies for the review of provision where it is pointed out that consideration for privacy is necessary
  6. Exchange of opinions
3. Adjournment

Materials

Minutes, etc.

Date

Wednesday, November 30, 2022 (2022), from 3:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.

Location

Held online

Attendees

Chairman

OGUSHI Masaki (Senior Vice Minister of Digital)

Members

Junji Annen (Attorney-at-law, Professor of the Graduate School of Law
Tatsuhiko Inadani (Professor, Graduate School of Law, Kyoto University)
IWAMURA Arihiro (Managing Director, Japan Business Federation)
Katsuya Uenoyama (President of PKSHATechnology, Inc.)
Takafumi Ochiai (Attorney at law, Atsumi & Sakai, Foreign Law Joint Enterprise)
Masakazu Masushima (Attorney-at-Law, Mori Hamada & Matsumoto)

Minutes

Secretariat (Matsuda): Now that it is time, I would like to open the 16th Digital Ad Hoc Working Group.

Members are invited to participate online this time as well.
With regard to the attendance of all the members today, I have heard that Mr. Sugawara will be absent due to personal reasons.

As for the first agenda item today, the creation of guidelines for age verification at the time of sales of alcohol and tobacco in the convenience store industry, Mr. Kamiya of OpenID Foundation Japanand Mr. Kasai of the Japan Franchise Association are scheduled to make announcements.

Ministry of Finance, the National Tax Administration Agency, the National Police Agency, and the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry are participating as observers.

The last item on the agenda is "Basic Policies for the Review of provision, where it has been pointed out that consideration for privacy is necessary." Privacy experts will also participate in the discussion on this agenda.

Without further ado, I would like to begin today's proceedings.
I would like to ask Mr. Ahn Nen to proceed with the proceedings from now on. Mr. Ahn Nen, please.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Thank you for joining us today.
Let's get down to business.

The agenda of the 16th meeting consists of the following five items.

First: "Preparation of guidelines for age confirmation at the time of sale of alcohol and tobacco in the convenience store industry"
Second: "Response to Requests from the Financial Industry"
No. 3: "Trial Implementation of the Process for Confirmation of Compliance with Digital Principles, etc. Pertaining to the Bill Scheduled to be Submitted to the Next Ordinary Session of the Diet"
No. 4: "Support for local governments's Efforts"
No. 5: "Basic policies for the review of provision that are pointed out to require consideration for privacy"

First of all, Mr. Hideaki Kamiya and Ms. Reiko Kasai, Planning Officer of Tentatsu, please explain "Creation of Age Confirmation Guidelines for Sales of Alcohol and Tobacco in the Convenience Store Industry".

Secretariat (Adachi): I think that Nice to meet you.
I would like to explain about the age verification guidelines.

First of all, I would like to explain the background.

Alcohol and tobacco are not allowed to be sold to persons under the age of 20, so we require them to verify their age when they are sold. As for vending machines, both the Ministry of Finance Metropolitan Government and the National Tax Agency disclose machines and age-verification devices. One is the taspo card, which can be read by My Number Card and driver's license card.

I would like to explain with pictures of the vending machine. Regarding the vending machine, there is an age verification device as shown here on the upper right. By inserting a My Number Card or a driver's license card into the age verification device, it is possible to verify that the person is 20 years old or older. The standards for the vending machine are shown in this way. On the other hand, the standards for the age verification device are not shown for the sale of alcohol and tobacco at the unmanned cash register. Therefore, the convenience store industry could not increase the number of unmanned cash registers for the sale of alcohol and tobacco due to concerns about administrative guidance.

We held discussions with Ministry of Finance and the National Tax Administration Agency. As a result, Ministry of Finance proposed that the Japan Franchise Association create a voluntary guideline for age verification methods. We are proceeding with the proposal. The relevant ministries and agencies are providing friendly advice on this guideline.

Today, we would like you to evaluate the appropriateness of the JFA's Age Verification Guidelines. When evaluating them, we would like you to use the Guidelines for Identity Verification of Administrative Procedures and the Guidelines for Identity Verification of private sector to confirm and evaluate whether they are reasonable.

In response to this evaluation, the JFA will issue guidelines in January next year. In addition, in order to provide uniform administrative guidance nationwide, each ministry will make the information in the guidelines known to Local Finance Bureaus, Tax Offices, and Police Stations nationwide.

The details will be explained by the presenters later, but this guideline shows various age verification methods and their levels. Regarding the registration procedure, there is an identity verification guarantee level, and an identity verification guarantee level that verifies the identity of the person who actually purchases based on the registration information.

The guidelines are based on the level of the reading method of taspo cards and official identification cards that Ministry of Finance allows at vending machines, as shown in this red frame, and require higher and stricter levels than this. Therefore, based on these guidelines, it will be difficult for minors to make a spoofs, and age verification will be strict.

Then, I would like to ask Mr. Kamiya to explain about the private sector Guidelines for Identity Verification. Thank you.

Mr. Kamiya: I am Kamiya of TRUSTDOCK. Nice to meet you.

I would like to explain the status of the formulation of the cross-sectional digital identification guidelines for private business that OpenID Foundation is working on.

Identity verification using digital technology is called digital identity verification, and it has spread across a wide range of regions. Today, I would like to explain the rules. For administrative procedures, the government presented guidelines about four years ago. On the other hand, there are no cross-sectional guidelines for private service. There was a need from business operators, so private business is taking the lead in creating the guidelines. That is our initiative. private business is taking the lead in creating the guidelines.

With regard to these guidelines, it is primarily assumed that business operators will directly refer to them. On the other hand, there are requests to respond as a group based on the circumstances of each industry and industry, the law concerned, and customs. The JFA guidelines that you will explain today are a precedent.

Next is the background. Please take a look at page 5.
I would like to introduce two changes in identity verification.

The first point is the change from offline to online. It is changing from analog to digital technology. It used to take up to one week, but now there is a method to complete the identity verification procedure in less than 30 seconds. Not only is the completion time shortened, but the convenience has been improved so that identity verification can be performed anytime and anywhere.

The second point is about the change in identification. There are various types of identification. Until now, driver's license card has been treated as the center, but from now on, My Number Card will be the center of identification, so I think it is necessary to accelerate design centered on My Number Card in terms of identity verification.

Continue on to page 7.

Members of OpenID Foundation Japancall it the Egg of private business. It is a picture of the relationship between people in private business and regulation. The part that looks like the yolk is the business operator who has a rule for identity verification in law. The light yellow and white parts are collectively called the white business operator by us, but this is a business operator who has no rule in law and voluntarily introduces identity verification. In 2018, partly due to the amendment of the Criminal Proceeds Act Ministerial Ordinance, the introduction of digital identity verification has advanced, particularly among financial institutions. However, with the spread of online services, digital identity verification has been rapidly introduced among white business operators.

So, the next page is Issue.

Business operators who handle egg white have voluntarily introduced identity verification, but as I said earlier, there are no guidelines. In the end, some business operators have introduced identity verification that is as strict as that for egg yolk business operators.

For example, there are many staff members who deliver lunch boxes on the side these days, but there are opinions that it would be an excessive response to confirm the identity of these staff members and confirm their identity in the same way as AML / CFT. There are concerns that such an excessive response will spread and become a de facto regulation.

Please take a look at the next page.

With the cooperation of IPA, we conducted hearings with 16 business operators and organizations last year, and we received requests from all of them to create a cross-sectional guideline. At the same time, we received requests that it be positioned like a guidebook that contains the information necessary for people to choose identity verification.

So, on the next page, as I mentioned earlier, we have set up a task force within OpenID Foundation, and we are holding weekly discussions with 10 business operators. Mr. Ochiai is participating in these discussions, and the people of Digital Agency are also participating every week.

The main target of our guidelines, in the picture of an egg earlier, is the white-flesh operator.

Next, I would like to give you an overview of the guidelines. Please see page 12.

I would like to give you a very brief explanation. As Director Tentatsu explained earlier, identity verification consists of two parts: identity verification and person authentication. Identity verification consists of confirmation that the registration content is correct at the time of registration, and authentication when the person on the right is generally said to be logged in.

Each of them has a level of strength against risk. This is called an assurance level. Identity verification is called IAL, and person authentication is called AAL. Each of them is divided into three levels. This is originally based on the standards of NIST in the U.S., and this concept is also adopted in the Guidelines for Administrative Procedures in Japan. The method of My Number Card is positioned as the highest level method. The content of this guarantee level is reflected in the guidelines of JFA this time.

Please look at page 13.

This is a slide that briefly explains the difference between our private sector Guidelines and the Administrative Procedures Guidelines. At first glance, you may recognize that the directions of the arrows are different. In the Administrative Procedures Guidelines on the left, I talked about IAL and AAL, but IAL and AAL are shown according to risk, and it is written to respond by a method that matches the level. Business operators, of course, emphasize risk, but they make choices based on usability, cost, or what kind of identity verification other business operators have introduced.

It is the next page 14.
This is a comparison table that summarizes the characteristics of each main method of identification and person authentication. The main methods are arranged side by side, and the vertical part is written as Assurance Level, IAL, which also shows the assurance level. In addition, it also summarizes information from the user's perspective, such as the required time and whether or not a personal identification number is required. By summarizing this information, it is a feature of our guidelines that operators can select the method according to the service.
Would it be all right if you could fly a bit and fly to pages 18 and 19? Thank you very much.

We, organizations in private sector, have created these guidelines, so we would like to propose a new identity verification. We believe that this matches the content of promoting the installation of the E-Certificate function in My Number Card on smartphones, which is scheduled to start in May next year. Experiences such as taking photos and reading and sending information by holding My Number Card over a smartphone have expanded. From now on, we would like to go one step or two further, and propose a simpler and faster user experience, in which the procedure is completed and completed in a few seconds after inserting the information of the ID into the smartphone or digitalization the ID.

The effects are summarized on the next page.

Until now, we have been responding to identity verification for each service, but we would like to make it possible to omit identity verification for each service by thoroughly verifying identity verification once, as shown on the right, and telling you that we have verified identity verification. We believe that this is beneficial for both users and businesses. We also believe that it is beneficial for both users and businesses from the perspective of personal data treatment.

This is the schedule on page 21. We are currently working on the creation at a rapid pace, and we plan to release it within this fiscal year. If you give us an opportunity to make it known and explain it to the people of Digital Agency and related organizations, we will visit them, so please let us know.

The last slide is JFA's guidelines. By referring to our guidelines, we were able to clarify IAL, AAL, and the methods corresponding to each level, which are necessary for age verification. Since the methods corresponding to the level are clear, it is easy to understand. We would be grateful if JFA could expand these good efforts to other industries and business operators.

From that perspective, I have attached a reference material at the end, but I am currently creating a mapping. I am creating a map that shows what methods are being introduced in the sharing economy industry, so I would appreciate if you could refer to this material as well.

Returning to page 22, I would like to end my remarks by saying that the Government of Japan is also considering revising the Guidelines for Administrative Procedures, and I would like to ask for your cooperation in the framework of such consideration.

We believe that digital identity verification is the foundation of digital society. Although we are a small startup, we would like to continue to promote digital identity verification in cooperation with OpenID Foundation and the public and private sectors, and to solve social Issue such as this Convenience Store.

That's all for now.

Thank you very much, Mr. Kasai.

Mr. Kasai: Review Meeting on Age Verification of Alcohol and Tobacco" at the Japan Franchise Association, which you introduced me to digital authentication.

I would like to explain the progress of the Guidelines for Age Verification of Alcohol and Tobacco using Digital Technology, which are under consideration by the Association.

As Mr. Adachi explained earlier, in order to cope with further labor shortages in the future, the convenience store industry is aiming to save labor through technology. Amidst this, it is Issue that there are no clear rules for self-checkout. In addition, we have been conducting face-to-face age verification by employees, but I would like you to know that it is extremely burdensome for employees to verify their age by looking at their appearance.

This time, we have been conducting age verification in person, but in order to make it a more appropriate method, I would like to report on the content of the guidelines that are currently under consideration regarding the rules for age verification in digital forms other than in person, such as self-checkout.

First of all, I would like to explain the flow in creating the guidelines for age verification.

First of all, I would like to confirm the administrative rules that you have already introduced. Based on the age verification of cigarette vending machines, I have organized the methods of reading official identification cards, IC cards, and taspo cards, as well as the level of guarantee for identity verification and personal authentication. At that time, I have organized them with the cooperation of Mr. TRUSTDOCK.

After that, we organized it, and as a certain standard, it should be identity verification level 2 or higher, and if it is person authentication, it should be level 1 or higher, and we presented that there is no problem if it is higher than this. Recently, there are various digital age verification methods out there, such as demonstration experiments at convenience stores, but we have accumulated them, and at this time, we have asked TRUSTDOCK for cooperation in organizing the guarantee level. After that, we organized the "conditions for being able to be said to have an age identification device" with reference to the administrative rules.

From now on, I would like to introduce the content of the guidelines. The scope of the guidelines this time is the purchase of alcohol and tobacco.

Regarding the sales method, it is considered that a method in which a customer purchases at a store without an employee, that is, a self-checkout, a case similar to AmazonGo, and a smartphone checkout are applicable. This time, we assume that there is at least one person in the store, and that there is a person in the sales floor or backyard.

As for the "Basic Concept," as I explained earlier, identity verification and personal identification are arranged in the form that if the guarantee level is higher than taspo and driver's license card, which are allowed for age verification of vending machines, there will be no problem.
The next page will be a plot of each.

As Mr. Tentatsu, Director of Planning, introduced earlier, with taspo cards, the identity verification guarantee level is Level 2, as the identification is confirmed by mail or e-mail, etc., and the personal identification is Level 1, single factor authentication, as the identification is verified by card.
Similarly, in the case of official identification, the identification is inserted into the card, but I think it can be evaluated as level 2, which is confirmed remotely. In the case of official identification, it is not a matter of putting a database on a server somewhere, and the identity is confirmed each time, so it is not performed as personal identification, and I think it can be arranged as a case in which the identity is confirmed each time.

In addition, the second one from the left that has appeared in the world, the first one is to register a face by showing an employee an identification card, and the person with that face is registered in the database as being 20 years old or older, so the identity verification guarantee level is Level 3. After that, since the judgment is made only by the face, it is possible to organize the face authentication in a form such as Level 1 by the person authentication single element.

In addition, as Mr. Kamiya explained earlier, in the case of identity verification at eKYC, etc., I think you will need to take a photo of your identification card or mobile phone, but it is Level 2. In the case of personal identification together with your fingerprint, it is two factor authentication, and it is Level 2.

Next, I would like to explain about the use of smartphone mounting in My Number Card. As a future initiative, I recognize that the use of smartphone mounting in My Number Card will be implementation from May next year, as Mr. Digital Agency has proposed. We are also considering whether it can be used, and I would like to give an example.

When you register an app made in private sector for the first time, if it is installed in smartphone, My Number Card, you can confirm your age by entering your PIN code. In addition, if you register your fingerprint at that time, it will be two factor authentication, which means your mobile phone and fingerprint, and it will be Level 2. Since My Number Card has spread in this way, there are various methods available, and with the release of these guidelines, I think there will be more ways for businesses to choose.

The guidelines provide standards, but under the applicable laws, it is a requirement for punishment that the seller knew that a person under 20 years of age would use the product for his / her own use. Therefore, even if age verification is performed even if digital technology is used, it is expected that there will be some cases in which it will be a problem. For example, even though a implementation is made at the self-checkout counter using digital technology, employees may see a person wearing a school uniform purchasing at the self-checkout counter. If the purchase is not stopped, there may be a penalty. We would like to present such a limit case to the business operator and alert them.

This is for reference, but I think the structure of the guideline is as follows. In the future, we will hold a review meeting including experts about two times, and finally, we would like to release this matter at the end of January next year. In this guideline, digital technology age confirmation, including self-checkout, mainly in convenience stores, is arranged, but it is considered to be sufficiently applicable. In the future introduction of DX, we expect that this guideline will help to cope with labor-saving, including self-checkout, and will make it easier to tackle the solution of social Issue.
That's all for the report.

Secretariat (Adachi): I think that .

The guidelines also refer to the method of using smartphones installed in My Number Card, which I believe is useful for Digital Agency in aiming to promote My Number Card.

Thank you, Dr. Annen.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister . The three of you gave us an explanation.
If you have any comments or questions about the current explanation, please let us know.
First of all, since I am a complete amateur, I think I will ask you a lot of questions. Since each company has presented options to the companies, it is not a matter of unifying what should be done at this stage, and I think that is the reason, but what do you think about the future?

In other words, if it is okay to use various official identification cards, it will be a hassle to buy a reader each time. The same can be said for My Number Card itself. From a commonsense perspective, it is almost impossible for people to go to a convenience store or a supermarket without a smartphone by having a smartphone read the contents of a My-Number Card. So, why don't you just use a smartphone? I am a real amateur, so I would like to point out that this may be the case in the near future. What do you think about this point? Anyone is fine, so please tell me what it is.

Secretariat (Adachi): I think that Digital Agency would like to go by using a method that utilizes My Number Card's smartphone.
Mr. Kasai, please.

Mr. Kasai: pointed out, I think mobile phones are of course possible in the future, so when we think about payment at convenience stores first, there are quite a few customers who pay in cash. As for convenience stores, we have been demonstrating this step by step, but it is difficult to abandon the method of reading a card without first registering at all, and how much consumers will accept registering with their first mobile phone.

Although it has not been answered, each company is considering it according to the trend of the times and society, but as you know, at present, this review meeting has not implemented it to the point of unification.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister I understand very well. There are young people who buy things with cash to buy things at a convenience store. In that case, it will take quite a long time. I understand. Thank you very much. I am sorry that it has become my amateur.

Please feel free to speak to anyone else. Is anyone there?
Mr. Inadani, please.

Inadani Member: Thank you, Kyoto University.
Thank you very much for your detailed explanation.

As you mentioned in your explanation, identity verification is the very foundation of digital society, and I personally do not have a driver's license, so I think it is a very grateful attempt to increase convenience by using My Number more and more. There was one thing I thought was support that I would like you to continue to promote.

In addition, I understand that the guidelines were created with the cooperation of business operators, public organizations, and related organizations in private sector, and that the approach was to create desirable rules with multi-stakeholders. In advancing digitalization, in order to respond to the changes in the situation brought about by technology, I believe that the significance of rapidly creating rational rules that suit the new situation with multi-stakeholders has been pointed out in various situations, and I have this impression that it was a very ideal initiative.

In connection with Dr. Annen's talk earlier, I would like to ask you to continue to make efforts so that many people can enjoy the convenience of digitalization by expanding these efforts horizontally based on the state of technology and the circumstances of the industry. Thank you very much.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Come in, Mr. Iwamura.

Member of Iwamura: Thank you, Keidanren.
First of all, I would like to thank you for responding to the requests in our proposal.

As Dr. Annen pointed out, it is also about how to realize it in the near future, so I think it is okay to respond to agile.

The method of reading official identification cards shown in the Age Confirmation Guidelines that you showed us today is evaluated as an appropriate method because it guarantees both identification and personal authentication at a high level. I would like to express my hope that the publication and dissemination of the guidelines in January next year will advance age confirmation using digital technology in unmanned cash registers.

In addition, if My Number Card is equipped with a smartphone, it will increase the certainty of age verification and contribute to the convenience of users, killing two birds with one stone. The government has also requested us to promote the spread of My Number Card through the minister in charge, and there were reports that 60% of the people have acquired it. From the perspective of further promotion, I would like to see My Number Card equipped with a smartphone at an early date.

In addition, as Dr. Inadani pointed out earlier, the labor shortage is also a social Issue, and I think it is not important to expand these guidelines to other fields. In this horizontal expansion, I think that cooperation with Technology Map and the Technology Catalog will be effective. I hope that the efforts will expand while referring to the previous examples of unmanned cash registers, so I would like to thank you very much.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
How is everyone else?
Thank you, Mr. Uenoyama.

Uenoyama Member: . Thank you very much.
First of all, I was listening to you while thinking that it would be great if you could proceed with it.

I would like to talk a little bit about this from the perspective of technological evolution, but I think it is better that it is defined by a matrix of three levels, and I feel that even if technology changes in the future, we will be able to respond by slightly changing this framework.

What I am talking about is unmanned cash registers. In the future, I believe that the number of cases in which authentication is performed by unmanned stores or by interaction between people, software, or machines in the real world, such as customer service, will increase significantly. At first glance, it may sound a bit futuristic, but virtual agents are now able to provide customer service, so I think that it will be discussed in about five years. Therefore, I think that the framework assumes that such technological evolution will occur further in the future, so it may be a little close to the horizontal development story I mentioned earlier, but in that sense, I think that it will be a guideline for the future, so I hope that you will proceed with it.

That's all for my comments.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
If you have any other comments, please let me know.
Mr. Masushima, please.

Masujima Member: .

The original private sector version of the documents and the documents for identity verification were created in collaboration with the government. We will see how much of this is actually done in the world, and implementation the equivalent in private sector. I think this is the idea behind this project. You all think that this is exactly the way we need to proceed, and I would like to support this.

The other is that everything is done digitally, especially in the world of the Internet, where spoofs is no longer allowed. As stated, it is said that identity verification is required in the sharing economy under the guidelines and in the Act on the Protection of Personal Information Held by Administrative Organs. Therefore, the need for identity verification will continue to expand. There are many things to do, such as how far Twitter will go or how far it will go in areas such as the metaverse, but without a framework, it is always impossible to know what to do.

So, I would like to show this initiative to various people, and if you could show how to apply it and show the reason why we are here in a way that can be understood by everyone as much as possible, I think everyone will understand how to do it in a world that is complete with digital. I feel that I don't want to have to confirm my identity, and the current world of the Internet will soon be like that, but I feel that the current allergic reaction to such a thing will fade away, and I will be able to do what I should do. Thank you very much.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Would you like anything else?

I would like to ask one more question. For example, I think there are many situations where there is only one employee in the backyard at night. In such a case, if something like a small trouble occurs at the cash register, will the person in the backyard rush to the cash register?

Mr. Kasai: .

I believe that there will be various cases where the Guidelines do not go into unmanned areas. In the end, as Dr. Ahn mentioned earlier, considering that there are cases where people do not have a My Number Card, we are considering the premise that people will rush to the place where they are.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister That's probably true. Therefore, in the Guidelines this time, although it is assumed as a future story, it is not necessarily an intermediate step toward complete unmanned operation for the time being, and I feel that people are thinking about things on the premise that they will be at least somewhere.

Mr. Kasai: is a future Issue, but as I stated in the matrix earlier, there are different levels of age verification methods, so I believe that discussions can be held at a higher level when the meeting is held unattended.

That is a little different from the past. Since the guarantee level is arranged by TRUSTDOCK, if it is possible to confirm whether the person who came is the same as, for example, the person who inserted the card, the level will be higher. I thought that such a consideration would be possible.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister I see. Thank you very much. I think it is true that the technical and institutional foundation for unmanned operation is being prepared. However, from the perspective of users like me, the clerks at the convenience stores around my house, who are usually foreigners, are also surprisingly capable, learn Japanese quickly, and have excellent customer service. In other words, what I want to say is that the level is too high, so it will not be replaced by a machine. Therefore, it would be better if the level was a little lower. It would be irresponsible to say that it would be good if the level was low, but the level is too high, and it has become that human beings are better. Therefore, it is painful and itchy here, so it is necessary to penetrate and understand that unmanned operation and automation are greatly advantageous.

Mr. Kasai: Yes. I think so. We cannot create this system without the cooperation of our customers. Therefore, I think it is very important that the establishment of this guideline allows business operators to consider it.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister That's absolutely right. Thank you very much.
If there are no other speakers, shall we stop here for a minute on this topic? Thank you very much to everyone who explained.

Let's move on to the second agenda. Next is the response to the requests from the financial industry. I would like to ask Mr. Tentatsu, Planning Officer.

Secretariat (Adachi): I think that Now, I would like to explain the requests of the financial community. Thank you very much.

In the "Priority plan for the Realization of digital society," we received 1,900 requests from the business community. Based on these, we aim to build a precedent, and if there is a similar regulation from the typology, we will conduct a comprehensive review.

For example, there is floppy disk. In May, the Working Group reported that the Ministry of the Environment decided to abolish floppy disk and others. This established a precedent. Then, in October, as a whole-of-government initiative, the government decided to abolish floppy disk and others.
Today, I would like to explain about the construction of this precedent.

First of all, we believe that finance is the "heart of the economy." It is 330 million accounts, so each person has one account. In addition, we believe that both direct and indirect finance are lubricating oil for economic activities. Therefore, we have addressed this issue under the theme of finance.

At that time, I worked with industry organizations such as the Japanese Bankers Association, the Regional Banks Association, the Life Insurance Association, and the Non-Life Insurance Association, and we were asked to join the industry organizations in discussions with each ministries and agencies.

In addition, the dispatch of human resources to the Secretariat by the Japan Bankers Association was a major driving force.

Now, I would like to explain the status of response.

There have been 20 developments in digitalization and other areas. Today, I would like to explain the main ones.

On the other hand, there were 12 cases that we would like to make known again because they have been dealt with. This is described in the public comment. However, there were very many cases in which the requester was not aware of them because they were public comments. We will make this known to the industry through office communication.

There are some cases that we did not respond to for reasonable reasons. For example, regarding the Criminal Proceeds Act and money laundering, there are international standards set by the FATF, and it is difficult for Japan to respond alone. For this reason, we were unable to respond this time.

Now, I would like to explain the progress made in digitalization and other areas.
This is an administrative procedure. This is an administrative efficiency for local tax revenues, but for local tax collection, there is a collection slip like this. The bank must send the notice of tax payment for part 1 to local governments. And for part 2, the payment slip, the bank must keep it. Therefore, the administrative cost is very large. In addition, this number is 240 million per year, which is quite a number. Therefore, it is necessary to respond to this.

In response to this, from fiscal 2023, we will implement the unified printing of QR codes for local taxes for the four taxes of fixed asset tax, automobile tax, city planning tax, and light motor vehicle tax. In addition to this, from fiscal 2024, we have decided to print QR codes in principle for other local taxes, real estate acquisition tax, Individual Business Tax, Private Residential Tax, and so on. As a result, banks will be able to transmit and store electronic data.

Next, on the right. This is the registration procedure for insurance agents. For those who are called aunts of insurance companies and those who sell at banks, registration procedures are required. There are 590,000 cases a year. In this regard, we have not made a digital completion until now due to the payment of stamps for registration and license tax and fees. However, we have heard that a complete digitalization will be made by the end of this fiscal year.

Next is the private sector transaction. It is the digital Issue conversion of Issue documents.
Currently, in private sector transactions, as a general rule, a written Issue is made. If you have the consent, it is a digital Issue. Since there are costs for business operators, it is necessary to reduce these costs, and as a general rule, a digital Issue is made, and a written Issue is made if requested. In other words, it is possible to consider a Issue in which an application and a Issue are made online from the very beginning.

In response to this, in the Financial Instruments and Exchange Act, in addition to the Prospectuses, etc., from this year, we have heard that the Best Execution Statement will be a law measure from next year.
In addition, law measures will be taken for other documents related to financial instruments transactions from the year after next.

In addition, regarding funds transfer service providers such as PayPay and LINEPay, Issue will be revised in 2023 in the form of Digital law.

Finally, regarding the digitalization of securities, there is no provision for non-issuance of certificates other than book-entry transfer local government bonds. Therefore, it is difficult to issue digital local government bonds using blockchain technology, so-called security tokens. This is a law premised on certificates. The Companies Act has a provision on non-issuance of certificates.

In addition to this local government bonds, I have heard that there are similar cases of university bonds and independent administrative corporation bonds. In this regard, I have heard that Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications will hold a review meeting on issues other than transfer local government bonds and take law measures in fiscal 2023.

With regard to BOJ investment securities, only BOJ investment securities are not listed on the digitalization. This is the actual document of the BOJ investment securities. The Financial System Council is currently discussing this matter, and we will take necessary measures at the ordinary Diet session in 2023 or next year.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Please let us know if you have any comments or questions about the explanation we have just given.

I am a complete amateur, but do local government bonds that do not apply to the Transfer Act exist in the first place? Is there such a conventional type before blockchain or something like that?

Secretariat (Adachi): I think that local government bonds have an image of bonds, but local government bonds indicated in the Local Finance Act include borrowing. They are so-called bank loans. In addition, there are local government bonds for individuals. They are something that only people in a certain area, your city, or your prefecture can buy. Unlike book-entry local government bonds, they are something that is distributed to everyone on the face. In this way, local government bonds have an image of a very wide range, not a bond, but a wider range than that.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister Is that so? I learned that. Thank you very much.
Please feel free to ask anyone.
Mr. Inadani, and then Mr. Ochiai, please.

Inadani Member: Thank you, Thank you for your explanation as well.

As for digitalization, I understand that drafts and checks will also be handled by digitalization, so I would like to ask you to continue to do so.

I would also like to ask about the handling of consent. I heard that you will be using the opt-out method for consent at the time of written Issue. Personally, I think that appropriately utilizing the opt-out method is a very effective method in such a situation. I think that it is very effective in promoting this initiative from the perspective of behavioral economics related to default rules, and it is also very effective from the perspective of reducing unnecessary costs and environmental conservation. Therefore, I would like to ask you to proceed as follows.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Mr. Ochiai, please.

Ochiai Member: .
I believe this is an extremely important initiative. financial sector is an industry that moves relatively quickly, and in such a situation, I expect that the number of systems that can actually be used digitally will increase, and that there will be positive effects from reviewing the content itself and firmly promoting it.

Among the discussions held at the regulatory reform Promotion Conference, there was also talk of bills of lading and consolidation of the acceptance of the FIEA. Over the past one or two years, various themes have emerged, and I believe that this is an initiative that is very suitable for being corrected on a horizontal basis. I would like you to proceed with this.

In the future, if possible, the MOJ and others explained to the regulatory reform Promotion Council a little while ago that electronic delivery would be made through electronic procedures under the Code of Civil Procedure. In that case, I believe that there may be discussions on perfection requirements for the assignment of receivables. First of all, I believe that the digitization of documents will be the first step. I believe that advancing discussions on perfection requirements and transfer of rights in the form of bills of lading is an important preparatory exercise for such discussions. In addition, I hope that you will address such other themes in due course.

Also, if you don't mind, I couldn't speak about the previous guidelines because I haven't been able to enter the room yet. May I make a comment?
There seems to be no problem, so I just looked at the materials, but in relation to the guidelines for convenience stores, I have discussed them together at a review meeting at the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry in the past, and in relation to the OpenID Foundation, I have participated as an advisor, so I understand the contents themselves.

As for digitalization, I think it is also very important to make the first convenience stores unmanned during digitalization. Because we can do that, we will be able to set up bases and increase the number of places where we can provide services. In a society with a declining population and an increasing number of area where services cannot be provided due to depopulation, on the other hand, there are people who just do not want to leave area. In order to respond well to this, it is important to have unmanned stores, and I think it is very difficult to ask people to go far in a area where there is nothing, so I think it is important to be able to make such efforts.

In addition, this area is subject to criminal law in particular, and I believe that there is another difficulty in issuing a notice of interpretation as a so-called administrative law. I believe that the results will be widely accepted in society for the first time only when the Working Group on Digitalization and related ministries and agencies work together to firmly form the implementation. I believe that this is an area that has already been unmanned, such as taspo, so it is obvious that it is not impossible, but I believe that it is necessary to clearly define what should be done and how far it should be done. I believe that this is the mission of Digitalization, so I would like you to proceed with it as a part of it.

The other is about the review by the OpenID Foundation. As a member of the Japan Business Federation (Keidanren) commented at the previous review meeting, I think that clarifying the level of identity verification will be an important tool in various regulatory reform, so I think there was a discussion that the organization itself should be advanced.

This is also to enable the public to respond to risks on a risk basis, or to have people understand what kind of identity verification is appropriate when going online. At first, this was discussed at the METI Study Group on Online Services, but since it can be used as a yardstick in regulatory reform, it is possible to quantify appropriate risk management to some extent. In particular, we are referring to New Zealand and the NIST guidelines, so I think there are parts that are organized based on certain reliable yardsticks. I think it would be good if it could be used as a yardstick, and dependence and reference are also being discussed, and I think this part is also quite important.
In the Act on Prevention of Transfer of Criminal Proceeds, there are parts that can be read in terms of outsourcing to other business operators as a result, but I think that the fact that various business operators have to deal with the same process individually is contrary to the philosophy of one time only in terms of digitalization's principles. It is valuable to be able to rely on and outsource, but I think that there are areas that are difficult to do without organizing the frame. I think that point may be referred to in the future organization.

In terms of verifying attribute information, I talked about age in the case of an unmanned cash register at a convenience store, but I think it can also be used as a frame for verifying qualifications and other attribute information in accordance with the basic information of the person. Since it is useful not only for simple identity verification, I would like to work with Digi-Line, and of course it will be useful for private sector business, and I hope it can be used in regulatory reform as well. I am also participating in the consideration, so I would like to continue to contribute to the discussion at Digi-Line, including consideration there.

It's been a long time, but that's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister Not at all. Thank you very much for your valuable suggestions.

Iwamura-san, next, please ask Masushima-sensei.

Member of Iwamura: Thank you, .

I have no objection to the policy of "first of all, what can be done" regarding administrative efficiency in local tax collection. However, in light of the "digital completion and Automation Principles" of Digital Principles (1), I think that the printing of QR codes is a transition, and I think that the aim of complete digitalization of so-called administrative procedures is the main idea.

At the study meeting on the promotion of computerization of local taxes in Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, it is understood that individuals are considering the use of Mynaportal and corporations are considering the use of eLTAX, and I heard that they will respond in 2026 and 2026. I hope that you will soon realize a system that is completely paperless and can be settled at once.

On the other hand, although it is not stated in the materials, I recognize that the simplification of electronic storage of statutory books in the financial instruments business is also a Issue. In addition, I understand that the computerization of the issuance of university bonds and local bonds without the application of the Book-Entry Transfer Act, which you explained earlier, will be developed horizontally in the future, but if there is any progress, I would like to be informed as needed.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Then, Dr. Masushima, please.

Masujima Member: .
While various efforts are being made in the area of finance, although it is not directly mentioned here, the issue of the perfection requirements for digital securities such as the security Token, which is mentioned in the request, has been dealt with by the so-called Act on Strengthening Industrial Competitiveness, which is also mentioned in the response, but I am aware that the current practical situation is progressing more and more, and it is increasingly being said that this is not enough.

It is said that there is a considerable difference in the world view between the transfer of items with a freely changing balance and the quick transfer of items with a fixed amount of money. It is called fungibility, but it has recently been said that there is a considerable difference in the way of thinking in legislation between items in which the balance is emphasized and items in which claims are specified and the claims are transferred. Of course, when we created law, we did not see things from such a point of view, so it was very grateful that we were able to create it by asking us to follow such rules in the Strengthening Act, but we have been making progress since then.

It seems that things are moving forward with great momentum, so I think it is one of the characteristics of digital technology that it is difficult to talk about removing this issue. If you try to control the balance of so-called fungible assets within the framework of the Industrial Competitiveness Act, various difficulties will occur. I would like to give you feedback here, and I would be grateful if you could take it up at the time of the next resolution of Issue.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Secretariat, I thought it would be helpful if you could give me some specific examples. Thank you very much.
Is there anyone else?

Mr. Ochiai, please.

Ochiai Member: I would like to add that this is a materialization of Dr. Masushima's point. For example, stablecoins have recently been mentioned in the Act on Strengthening Industrial Competitiveness. Among blockchains, it is said that there are consortium-type, permission-type, and permissionless types. If anything, permissionless has parts that are difficult to use under the current Act on Strengthening Industrial Competitiveness, and there are parts that are difficult to read when there is information that must be specified in the requirements. I think permissionless blockchains are used more than permissioned blockchain, but they sometimes cannot be read. I think the Act on Strengthening Industrial Competitiveness is a law that is reviewed on a regular basis, so I think it will be addressed in due course, but I understand that the specific point at hand is to make it possible for permissionless to be read properly.
I'm sorry, it's a supplement.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister law.

Ochiai Member: law.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister . I see. I should examine it carefully. Thank you very much.

Would you like anything else? Well, shall we stop with this theme? Is that all right?

Next is the third item on today's agenda, "Trial Implementation of the Process for Confirmation of Compliance with the Digital Principles for the Bills Scheduled to be Submitted to the Next Ordinary Session of the Diet."

Mr. Nakano, Planning Officer, please explain.

Secretariat (Nakano): Thank you very much . I am Nakano of the Digital Ad Hoc Secretariat.
I would like to explain the outline of the draft of the Guidelines for Confirmation of Compliance with the Digital Principles pertaining to the bill scheduled to be submitted to the next ordinary Diet session.

At the 14th Working Group meeting in September, I explained that the process for confirmation of compliance with digital principles will be implemented ahead of schedule for the bills scheduled to be submitted to the extraordinary Diet session. As you discussed, we would like to implement the process for confirmation of compliance with digital principles on a trial basis for the bills scheduled to be submitted to the next ordinary Diet session.

What is projected is the outline of the draft guidelines. The yellow filled parts are considered to be expanded parts from the guidelines implemented for the bills scheduled to be submitted to the previous extraordinary Diet session.
First of all, I would like to make one point. As the purpose and target, we are thinking that the provisions to be confirmed will be those that are understood to require analog acts that fall under the seven representative regulations on paper and in-person processes as in the previous case, and those that designate a media such as floppy disk.

Next, with regard to the confirmation methods for the seven representative regulations on paper and in-person processes items in Part 2, based on the trial implementation of the bill scheduled to be submitted to the Extraordinary Diet, if the phases are applied in consideration of responses through government and ministerial ordinances, notifications, etc., we are thinking of confirming the implementation date, issuance date, and outline of the process of these lower law items.

In addition, in October this year, we prepared and released a technical catalog on digitalization for training and examinations on a trial basis. When each ministries and agencies drafts bills, government and ministerial ordinances, and notifications on their implementation, we will state that we will implement Technology Map in anticipation of the necessary procurement and other operational aspects by utilizing the digitalization and technical catalog. Digital Agency is also considering responding to inquiries from each ministries and agencies about questions about the feasibility of using the technology catalog.

In addition, in order to support regulations on paper and in-person processes's continuous efforts toward digitalization, I would like to show that Digital Agency plans to provide concrete support necessary for regulation, such as cross-sectional digital technologies, for multiple validation types.

Furthermore, we would like to introduce specific examples that will be helpful for each ministries and agencies type when each regulation reviews its regulation. For example, in visual inspection and on-site inspection regulation, we would like to introduce the use of technology that automatically detects cracks in inspections of road bridges and road tunnels and automatically measures the width of cracks by image analysis using AI, which was explained by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism in the previous Working Group.

The above is a brief outline of the draft guidelines.

As a matter of course, this is the first time that the process of confirming compliance with the Digital Principles has been implemented for a bill scheduled to be submitted to the ordinary session of the Diet, and we hope that Digital Agency will be able to steadily implement the process by providing the necessary support while devising ways so as not to impose an excessive burden on the people of each ministries and agencies.

Although it is simple, I would like to finish my explanation.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister , Director of Planning, thank you very much.
Then, if you have any comments or questions about the explanation just now, please feel free to ask.
Mr. Ochiai, please.

Ochiai Member: .

I think this means that you are making a implementation ahead of schedule, so I thought it was wonderful again. I think that if these efforts proceed quickly, it will eventually lead to a reduction in the burden. On the other hand, I think that you are proceeding with sufficient consideration for the voices that it is difficult to proceed amid various processes such as the existing Legislation Bureau and administrative reviews.

I would like to ask you a question. What is the actual percentage and number of items that can be found in each law? In addition, while you are working on this, I would like to know if you have found any content that has not been standardized so far, but should be standardized and corrected.

Secretariat (Nakano): Thank you very much .

Mr. Ochiai, thank you for your supportive comments. With regard to your question, we are currently sorting out the status of the review of the bills submitted to the extraordinary Diet session. For example, if you read only the text, it seems that the bills fall under Phase 1 or 2, but there are some bills that digitalization can guarantee through ministerial ordinances or notifications. We are still in the middle of reviewing the existing law, so we will appropriately deal with such bills.

In addition, from the perspective of what kind of review it will be, although I did not write about it in the outline materials, I would like to add that when we discuss how to advance digital on-site inspections, we may be able to make improvements such as digitalization the process leading to the inspection or conducting online inspections where possible. In addition, I would like to add that we may be able to review the provisions of regulation on written notice, for example. In this regard, as you pointed out, we are at the trial stage, so I believe there is still room for improvement, but we are considering expanding and improving such areas as needed.

Ochiai Member: .
I immediately felt again that various results have been achieved. Thank you very much.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister Since it is the next ordinary Diet session, I don't know if I can tell until I appear. But this extraordinary Diet session has been the same, and frankly speaking, I expect that there will be a considerable learning effect. I think Mr. Ochiai is probably the same on that point.

Ochiai Member: I think there is one part that has been completed when something is discovered and pointed out.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister That's exactly right. Thank you very much.
How about others?
Mr. Inadani, please.

Inadani Member: Thank you, . Thank you for your explanation.

I thought about the same thing as Mr. Ochiai and Mr. Annen said. I think that there are some parts that can be seen only when you actually do it, so rather than deciding in advance that there should be no difference from what you expected or that there should be no difference, it is better to keep in mind that there are parts that can be improved while doing it, and it is better to respond flexibly. This is my first point.

Another point is that the entire initiative is advancing in a very in-depth manner. I thought it was wonderful that the initiative was advancing in such an in-depth manner despite the fact that it was advanced ahead of schedule. I think the examples of road bridges and tunnels in the expanded parts written in yellow this time are very important examples that we really must advance considering the situation in Japan going forward. In addition, I feel that it is very clear that it is expected to have a synergistic effect with efforts to utilize ideas from private sector through Technology Map, and that it will be one of the guidelines for the future of regulation. I feel that it is a very important point in promoting digitalization. I think that the content of this policy is very promising that digitalization in regulation will advance very much by implementation. I would like to make a comment on this point. Thank you very much.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Will there be anyone else? Is that all right?
Then, shall we leave the third agenda item aside for now?

Next, I would like to ask Mr. Matsuda to explain the fourth agenda item, "Support for local governments's Efforts."

Secretariat (Matsuda): .

I have made public the manual for inspection and review of regulation in local governments that was discussed by this working group, and I would like to report on the progress since then.

In public service, which is related to people's lives, local governments is being thoroughly implemented, so I believe it is important that local governments also promotes a review of regulations on paper and in-person processes. This time, in the Digital Rincho, based on the content of the national government's inspection and review of regulations on paper and in-person processes, Chapter 3, the bottom part, is a manual for the 1.0 edition that summarizes the procedures and systems for the inspection and review of regulations on paper and in-person processes in local governments, how to classify the types and phases as implemented by the national government, how to use them, and from what perspective Technology Map should be used.

As described in the lower right corner, as a precedent for the review, we have introduced not only the initiatives taken by the national government but also the example of local government, which is taking a precedent approach, in the manual. It also includes examples of municipalities that have revised the directive to substitute visual inspection inspection in forest improvement projects using drones, and municipalities that have revised the directive and taken measures to enable nursing care counselors to visit nursing care facilities online using an online conference system.

This manual was announced on November 18. In addition, we are holding a briefing session on the manual for local governments. We are divided into three blocks nationwide and are calling on people in all prefectures and municipalities.

Since this is a local governments that extends across all offices in each Issue, we are holding it by asking the people of the planning department and the administrative reform department of each organization.

From the second page, I would like to talk about the status of the briefing session. Quite a number of organizations participated, and there were times when more than 200 organizations participated in one briefing session.

In terms of our responses to your main comments and questions, some countries have already started to identify regulations on paper and in-person processes in regulation. However, we have received comments such as how to identify local government, how to search, and other national methods. If there is a list of law in countries that have been delegated to regulation, the relationship between regulation and the country that has been revised by the national government by about 9,000 provision can be clearly understood, so we would like to have it shared. We would also like to have information on the technology catalog provided as needed.

In addition, various local government have started efforts to make administrative procedures online. This will be promoted in an integrated manner, but how should administrative procedures be made online and how should they be promoted in a relational manner?

We received several proposals on the possibility of introducing teleworking for My Number administrative work, the possibility of using Wi-Fi, and the Issue of the system and security in advancing business.
On page 4, there is a platform called the Co-Creation Platform in Digital Agency. It is a platform where local government employees exchange information and opinions with members of the Digi-Cho Office or people from other municipalities in their personal capacity. Since the review of regulations on paper and in-person processes by local authorities, we have been creating a digital dialogue channel since the 18th. We have tried to fix regulation, but in the end, there are still places that the government is tied down, so we are working to fix about 9,000 provision this time, but there may be other places that still remain. In addition to the flow of information from the government and Digi-Cho to local government within the Co-Creation Platform, we will receive proposals from local government on the review of regulations on paper and in-person processes based on the country's law. In addition, there are requests to introduce cases of local government that have taken the lead in local government, so we have started such activities to promote efforts that can be communicated between local government.

On page 5, Minister Kono spoke to Foreign Minister Okada, who said that he would firmly support the review of regulations on paper and in-person processes in realizing Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation. Based on that, in terms of budget support for Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation, as a pattern, we are providing financial support to local government, which is advancing the review of regulations on paper and in-person processes and the implementation of digital technology.

As it is written a little below, it has been arranged that visual inspection will review the regulation of drones and use the regulation to conduct on-site inspections, that the resident and dedicated digitalization will be reviewed and online interviews will be introduced, and that subsidy for the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation will support the costs required to advance the of the course.
On the 28th of this month, the Cabinet Secretariat and the Cabinet Office gave an explanation to people in all of local government, and I believe that local government has taken various responses and is moving to start efforts, so I would like to continue to use the manual well and provide solid support through other budgets and the co-creation platform that I just explained.

That's all for my report. Thank you.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Then, if you have any comments or questions about the explanation just now, please let me know. What do you think?

Mr. Inadani, please.

Inadani Member: Thank you, . Thank you for your explanation.

I do not understand this theme well, but I would like to make a few comments on some points that I thought were good about this area and some points that I wondered about. First of all, I think it was very good that there was a financial incentive. I thought that if there was such evidence, local government would be more and more positive about digitalization.

I would like to ask two questions. The number of participating organizations is, for example, 590 in the Hokkaido-Saitama block, but are there actually 138 organizations that participated in this briefing? If so, I would get the impression that there were quite a few organizations that did not participate. Do you have any data or assumptions about the recognition of the organizations that did not participate in particular? From the perspective of advancing such efforts, I believe that it is important to involve many organizations, so my first question is whether you can tell us your current feelings on this point.

The first point is a fairly practical point, and I thought that there are quite a few people who want to know about the technical or practical aspect of how they searched for a place that seems to be a regulations on paper and in-person processes. So, for example, I don't know if it is possible, but I think that Digital Agency and private sector are beginning to exchange human resources fairly well. It may be a misnomer to say that local governments and Digital Agency are particularly influential, but I thought that if local governments, which seems to be ahead, can exchange human resources well, the spread of knowledge about it will progress. If you have any thoughts or feelings about this kind of human resources exchange, I would like to ask you about that point.

That's all.

Secretariat (Matsuda): .

Certainly, regarding the participating organizations, first of all, we have informed all prefectures and municipalities that we have notified them of the manual and other documents, but we have made it possible for them to participate at some point during the three day period, so I believe there is a difference in the number of participants. However, I believe that it has been discussed through prefectures, so I would like to think about how to follow up on local government and other regions that are not participating so that we can expand the area. I believe that it will be important for prefectures to take the lead.

The second point is, in fact, the whole of Digital Agency, as well as the Digital Dialogue, is coming from local governments at the special request of the mayor, and among the members who are promoting this initiative, people from local governments are involved. In addition, we are working to increase the number of members. I think it will be very important for members from local government with on-site know-how to join the team, and for local governments to share what they have experienced here, and on the contrary, for local governments to share the sense of Issue that they are seeing.

Originally, in the Digital Rincho, when the regulation and rules were identified in Fukuoka city, it was said that 90% of them were restricted by the national government, so I think that there are quite a few places where the national government and local governments need to work together well.

In addition to the budgetary support for Digita, if we can secure a budget related to Technology Map in Digital Agency, we are considering conducting a survey and research targeting the preceding local government. For example, we would like to conduct a survey of 10 or 20 organizations, taking into account the size of the regulation, and based on the specific feeling of Issue on the ground, such as what kind of Issue is located in which. If we can do so, I think we can expand it horizontally and make moves that can be used as a reference for other local government. In fact, there is no reliable database on regulation, so I think it is important to expand it while making some kind of preliminary efforts.

Inadani Member: Thank you, . I understood very well.
I think it is very important to expand the engagement of people in local governments, so I would like you to advance the initiatives you just explained. At the same time, I feel that it will be Issue in the future how to involve people in local governments who are difficult to participate in, so I would like to continue to discuss this. Thank you very much.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Mr. Ochiai, please.

Ochiai Member: .

I think it is really important to promote relations between local governments. I think what you encounter in daily life is not the procedures of the central government, but the procedures established in local governments that are mostly related to daily life. I think these local procedures are initiatives that are more likely to lead to tangible results, and I would like to see them expanded in the future.

When I looked at it from such a perspective, first of all, there are various programs such as Digita and Koshien, and I think it is important to receive awards and praise for the good progress made. I think it would be good if there were some benefits such as that the budget would be easier to use when the budget measures are taken later. I thought that the people of local government were competing with each other to see how Mr. local government, who is about the same size as Mr. local government, is doing. I think that such an award program has been developed in some parts, but I think that Mr. local government, who has been doing a good job in Digita, should be commended, and of course, if the contents of the cases themselves are written specifically, I think that other prefectures will often be referred to by themselves, so in that sense, I thought that visualizing the results of promotions and efforts would lead to the creation of an atmosphere in which results are more likely to be achieved.

Second, I think there is the law aspect, and I think the regulation database itself is necessary in the first place. I think the preparation and consultation of the service and system side are also important, so I think it is up to whether all of them should be handled by the Digi Agency or by other departments of the Digi Agency. However, when I look at the recent review of the digitalization, I think there are many cases in which it is said that not only should the regulation be reviewed and the law aspect be corrected, but also that it should be corrected so that it can be done as one time only as possible in business processes and systematization. I believe that the Digi Agency unit alone or in cooperation with other units will respond to this. I would like to ask for such a response. regulation

The third and final point is that there are talks about My Number and LGWAN. I think this is also a point that people in local government are struggling with. I think there are talks about the revision of the My Number Law in the next ordinary Diet session, and I think it will be reviewed more and more. If you think about how to do business in a way that is not necessarily tied to LGWAN, I think it will be easier to do work on the online system side. I don't know if this is something to be done only by Digi-in, but I would like you to consider it.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Is that okay? DX is a business flow reform itself, so it will definitely come with it.
Go ahead.

Secretariat (Matsuda): said, I think it is very important. Actually, for example, what the Digi-Agency as a whole is putting into the Issue money for Digita is to promote the spread of My Number Card, and although the budget is naturally separate, to promote the standardization of the local government system, to promote DX for the local government window, and in addition to that, to promote the review of regulations on paper and in-person processes as a set. We are showing local government with such a package. It seems that some local government are also discussing the creation of a full-scale system for DX for next year, and I think that some local government are discussing what kind of package should be used to promote the elements of DX as a whole. So, I think it is necessary to promote DX while carefully watching the whole package.

However, in terms of DIGIRI in particular, since regulation exists as a regulation, for example, in regulation, visual inspection and regulation, In-person Courses, I think it is impossible to review the business process of DX itself unless it is corrected, so I think it is very important to do that in a package. I think it is very important to develop awards and good practices, so I would like to consider whether it is good to do awards only in regulation in a short period of time, whether people in local government who have improved their service level can receive a reformed evaluation, and so on, while receiving various opinions.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister . I need a reward.
Thank you very much. Then, since time is of the essence, why don't we leave this topic for now?

The next agenda item is No. 5, "Basic Policies for the Review of provision Sites that Require Consideration of Privacy."

From here on, I would like to invite Professor Joji Shishido of the Graduate School of Law and Politics at the University of Tokyo, Professor Yoichiro Itakura of Hikari Sogo Law Office, and Professor Ryo Mori of Wisdom Law Office to participate in our discussions.
In addition, the relevant provision and Personal Information Protection Commission Secretariat, which are responsible for Privacy Sensitive ministries and agencies, are participating as observers. The relevant ministries and agencies are the National Police Agency, the Financial Services Agency, Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, the Ministry of Justice, Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, and the Supreme Court.

Regarding the service of documents by publication Plan, we will advance the discussion separately in the first half and the second half because the materials and minutes will be closed to the public.

First of all, I would like to ask Counselor Osawa to explain the first half.

Secretariat (Osawa): Thank you very much for Thank you very much. Nice to meet you.

As I reported at the previous Working Group meeting, we were unable to reach an agreement with each ministry and agency on the remaining 1% of the approximately 9,000 provision of regulations on paper and in-person processes. One of the reasons why we could not reach an agreement was that there is a provision where consideration for privacy is required.

As in Issue, the information held by regulation is made available for public inspection in the regulation for Inspection, the public authorities for Posting, and other places, and some of this information includes the names and addresses of individuals. When reviewing the regulation in which such information can be viewed not only in writing but also on the Internet, it has been pointed out by ministries and agencies that there is a higher risk of information being processed or misappropriated in the case of digital information than in the case of analog information, and that consideration for privacy is necessary.

In response to this, we will request each ministry and agency to aim for Phase 3 under the basic policy of disclosing the same information in digital and analog formats. This has been agreed upon with each ministry and agency through subsequent coordination.

The second point is that a certain policy will be presented to each ministry and agency. In other words, the specific content of the policy will be discussed today.

On page 2, there are four types of provision. I would like to explain them one by one. The first is access to a list of national qualifications, individuals who have obtained such qualifications, or business operators who have obtained such licenses and permissions.

Although it is within the dotted line frame, for example, under the Architect Act, the Minister of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism creates a list of first class architects and makes it available for public inspection, and in addition to the names of the architects, their dates of birth and genders are also listed on the list. It is probably a device to distinguish between people with the same name, but there are concerns that if such information is viewed digitally, it will be leaked to many and unspecified people.

The second is a system for the inspection of documents related to profits. In order to prevent insider trading by directors of listed companies, documents related to short-term trading profits of directors are made available for public inspection as well as for shareholders who have the right to request the return of such documents.

As shown in the frame, the name, address, etc. of the trader, that is, the officer, are described in the document, and if this is realized by digital browsing, it will be possible for an unspecified number of people to easily confirm the address at any time, which is a privacy concern.

On page 3, the third point, this is a so-called posting of a sign, and the business operator prepares such a document to show consumers that the business operator has obtained permission, etc. from the government and displays it at the office. For example, as shown in the dotted line frame, under the registered real estate agent Business Act, in addition to the license number and validity period, the name of the representative and the name of the full-time registered real estate agent business operator, which is required by law, are required to be entered. If this sign is made available on the Internet, the information of an individual employee will be made available for viewing, and there are concerns from the viewpoint of privacy.

The fourth is the service of documents by publication Notice. Under this Notice, when public authorities, for example, notifies individuals of an adverse disposition, if the address of the person is unknown, the name of the person and the notice document should be posted at the public authorities office at any time for a certain period of time to ensure that the disposition has not been decided before. If this is published not only on the bulletin board but also on the Internet, the fact that the person is the subject of the Issue will be easily spread. In addition, it will be difficult to delete it, which is also a concern from the viewpoint of privacy. service of documents by publication

On page 4, I would like to present the basic policies for the review of provision to each ministry and agency. As you can see on the left, I would like to ask you to discuss this today in four main parts. One is the general outline of the review policies or the schedule. The second is the items to be viewed and the scope of people to be viewed. The third is the rules to prevent inappropriate use and the technical measures to ensure their effectiveness. This is the first half, and I would like to ask you to discuss the regulation regime in the second half. I would like to ask you to discuss the service of documents by publication regime in the second half.

As you can see on the right, we have received opinions and views from experts in advance, so we have organized them into a draft policy. With regard to the parts other than the service of documents by publication Plan, based on today's discussions on the draft policy, we hope to officially present our policies to each ministry in the near future.

On page 5, the draft policies for the review of regulation, which will be posted to each ministry and agency, are summarized in three main sections.

First, regarding Direction 1, I believe that the first important point of the Digital Policy Consultation is to make it possible to view the same information as can be viewed in analog form in digital form, especially when considering compliance with the Digital Principles, particularly the digital completion and Automation Principles.

As for Direction 2, if it is necessary to consider privacy when reviewing regulation in accordance with Direction 1, we will ask you to go back to the existing regulation and review it in accordance with the "Basic Concept," which will be discussed today from the next page.

Policy 3 is to consider the use and introduction of digital technologies while referring to the Technology Catalog if there are still concerns about the protection of privacy with only institutional responses.

I would like to jump to page 8 and introduce the issues from here. First of all, the general point is the issue of what kind of perspective should be used to balance the benefits obtained by allowing access to information and the necessity of privacy protection. Regarding this point, I would like to introduce the opinions of our members and the experts who are participating today. They are the opinion that it is necessary to compare the effect of allowing fair administration and the privacy of individuals. They are the opinion that it is necessary to specifically confirm what kind of interests of individuals need to be protected.

We have received opinions such as whether it is important to consider whether there are already measures to mitigate the risk of privacy infringement in another law, whether the protection of privacy in the case of analog should be addressed again, and whether non-disclosure information should be included in the information disclosure request.

Moving on to page 9, this is one of the individual points of discussion when reviewing regulation by returning to the system itself. Regarding the review of browsing items, there is a diagram, and public authorities, which is in the middle, organizes the information provided by the individuals on the left and provides it to the viewers on the right. It is about which items of the information held at that time are made available for browsing. If the browsing items are narrowed down, privacy concerns will be eliminated, but if they are narrowed down too much, the public interest gained through browsing will be limited, so the point is how to balance them.

We have received opinions that the same information should be disclosed in both digital and analog formats. Some law were established before the spread of the Internet, so both digital and analog disclosure items should be revised. In addition, from the viewpoint of achieving the purpose of the regulation Act on access, necessary information should be disclosed to the extent necessary. For example, gender and date of birth can be substituted with other information, and address may not be disclosed depending on the purpose of regulation while paying attention to court procedures.

Moving on to page 10, the second is the review of the range of viewers, which is the range of viewers on the right side of this figure.
In your opinion, regarding the provision where public access is regulated, we should check whether there is a provision where only interested parties can access in light of the purpose of access.
There was an opinion that it should be considered to distinguish between information viewed by interested parties and information viewed by the general public.

On page 12, if the viewer on the far right of the figure at the top uses the information in an inappropriate manner after obtaining it from public authorities, it will lead to privacy concerns. Therefore, this operational rule prohibits this.

The next page is about prevention using digital technology. Your opinion here is that, for example, the prohibition of the use of information for purposes other than the original purpose should be clarified as an operational rule. Your opinion is that sanctions should be considered in the case of breaking the rule.
There were opinions that malicious cases of secondary use of access should be regulated as a prohibition of inappropriate use. There were also opinions that measures should be taken to make the provisions of the Personal Information Act function effectively. There were also opinions that there is a limit to limiting copying and copying by technical measures, so it is necessary to review the regulation related to access based on the premise of copying and copying.

It is page 13. With regard to technical measures to ensure the effectiveness of these rules after they have been developed, some people suggested that only the necessary parts should be viewed by using the search method instead of the list method. Some people suggested that restrictions on viewing by the same IP address should be introduced. On the other hand, some people suggested that the fifth point, which can be avoided by other technical means, should be reviewed.
Based on such opinions, we are formulating a draft of the basic policy.

First of all, in Part 1, the purpose and positioning of the policies are described. As shown at the bottom, in order to respond cross-sectionally to the regulation that each ministry and agency faces when reviewing the Issue from the viewpoint of digital compatibility, the basic policies of the review are shown.
In the 2nd part, from pages 1 to 3, specific examples of provision where privacy considerations are required as introduced earlier are described.

Also, on page 4, in Part 3, the basic policy that I introduced earlier, in particular, in Part 2, "in accordance with the' Basic Approach,'" will be described on pages 6 and later.

In the "Basic Concept" on page 6, the main paragraph states that in general, we will review the regulation Site by returning to the ideal system. In order to utilize digital technology in light of the purpose and purpose of the regulation Site, we will establish appropriate regulations by comparing and balancing the benefits obtained by browsing information and the necessity of protecting privacy, while taking into consideration the content of information provided for browsing and the public interest of the information provision system.

Regarding (1), we have decided to review the items to be viewed. Regarding the list of qualified persons in (1), (a) as a general rule, the names, brief personal histories, etc. of individuals will be made public. On the other hand, in (b), if it is necessary to distinguish between persons with the same surname and the same name, information such as the permission number will be made public instead of the sex and date of birth. In addition, as a general rule, the addresses of individuals will not be made public if they can be identified in another item to be viewed. On the other hand, for information that cannot achieve the purpose of the system unless the addresses are made public, such as when used for court proceedings, for example, the items to be viewed by interested parties and those by other persons will be distinguished, or the display content of the items to be viewed will be changed as desired. Below that, information up to the municipality, not the parcel number, and address information will be made public. We will make efforts to this end and review the list in light of the purpose and purpose of regulation. (d) Corporate information of business operators engaged in highly public operations, such as the articles of incorporation and financial statements, will be made public in principle. Moving to (iii), the names of individuals on the signs will be reviewed so that a balance can be achieved between the public interest through disclosure of information and the protection of privacy. Regarding the description of service of documents by publication in (iv), it is noted that it is being adjusted.

Next, in (2), regarding the review of the scope of the people who can view the list of qualified persons in (1), the information is necessary for consumers to select architects, for example, in the example earlier, so the people who can view the list are the public. Regarding (b) on page 8, regarding the commercial registration system, from the viewpoint of privacy protection, it is necessary to take measures such as limiting the people who can view the list to those who are appropriate in light of the purpose and purpose of the system. Furthermore, in that case, it is appropriate to review the list in light of the purpose and purpose of regulation, including such measures as specifying the scope of the people. In addition, regarding the system for viewing documents related to profits in (2), the scope of the people who can view the list is a little too wide, so it is necessary to review the system by limiting the scope. In addition, regarding the system related to the sign in (3), the people who can view the list are, in principle, the public.

This is about the development of rules in (3). As described in (a), public authorities and others will develop rules on the prohibition of the use of information for purposes other than the original intent, and will consider measures such as the provision of information subject to the approval of the rules. Specifically, I have written the rules in (a), but it is stated that the rules on the prohibition of the use of information for purposes other than the original intent, the prohibition of the inappropriate use of personal data, and the notification of the purpose of use to the person will be developed as operational rules, and the information will be provided subject to the approval of the rules. In addition, as necessary measures to make the rules on the prohibition of the use of information for purposes other than the original intent function effectively, it is appropriate to continue to disseminate and enlighten the systems and rules, including related ministries and agencies in each law, and to appropriately enforce them. In (c), there is a regulation where viewing and copying are separated under the current system, and in such cases, while viewing is allowed, there is an operational reality in which copying by handwriting or smartphone is prohibited, but considering the state of the spread of digital technology, it is difficult to ensure the prohibition of copying with technical effectiveness, and therefore, it is desirable to make copying possible subject to the approval of the rules on the restriction of use for purposes other than the original intent.

Finally, I would like to close with 4 points. Regarding the schedule for the review, in the review of the 9,000 provision of the Digital Consultation, we have already decided to conduct a review of the analog regulation over a two year period until June 2024, and as part of this, the review of the provision is required to be completed within that period. In addition, the review will not be completed in accordance with this policy, but it will be required to be constantly reviewed in the future based on the progress of digital technology and the status of its utilization.

As mentioned above, in the first half, I would appreciate if you could discuss the issues I just introduced and the draft basic policies. I would like to ask you to discuss the service of documents by publication part in the second half.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
I would like to start the exchange of views from here, but since the first half covers a wide range of issues, I would like to advance the discussion by dividing it into the following three parts.

The first half is for the three boxes on the left side described on page 4 of the materials. I would like to discuss them by dividing them into three groups, "Issue 0, Policies 1 to 3, General Remarks, and Schedule", "Issue 1, Viewing Items" and "Issue 2, Scope of Viewing Subjects". Then, I would like to discuss them by dividing them into three groups, "Issue 3, Rules to Prevent Inappropriate Use" and "Issue 4, Technical Measures to Ensure Effectiveness of Rules".

Then, could you start with Mr. Uenoyama? Next, Mr. Mori.

Uenoyama Member: Thank you very much. I'm Uenoyama.

I would like to talk about two points in terms of general remarks rather than which idea is good.
The first point is not about which idea is good, but one point of view that I would like to include in considering each point. In short, I think it is related to the fundamental difference between digital and real. The first point is that when accidents or emergencies occur, personal names are excessively amplified on the web and people are excessively punished. I don't know if this is called right to be forgotten in legal terms these days, but I feel that this point of view is different between digital and real, and I think it is surprisingly important to discuss this point of view.

The second point overlaps with what I said earlier, but I think it is very important to verbalize the differences between digital and real. In fact, this document already covers all of them, and I may not be able to catch up with them. For example, there are stories of things being copied and used for unintended purposes, and things being excessively expanded in times of emergency and threatening right to be forgotten. In fact, I think it is very important to verbalize the differences between digital and real in digital broadcasting.
From a slightly different perspective, these are my two comments.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister Second, do you mean that it would be better to include a basic recognition of the difference between digital and real in a document, even if it is concise?

Uenoyama Member: Yes. I am not sure if it is necessary to include it in this document, but I feel that it is a common concept for all points of discussion, so I would like to make it common among us.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister Thank you for your attention.
Then, Mr. Mori, please.

Attorney Mori: Thank you very much, .

Actually, I would like to share exactly the same opinion as Professor Uenoyama. We are talking about digital and paper. I think it is the difference between digital and paper. I think it is necessary to clarify the difference and consider the system after clarifying the difference. In that case, you said right to be forgotten, but digital tattoo is also mentioned. If something disadvantageous happens once, it will have a completely different impact from that of paper.

The other thing is, as you have already written in the materials, it is easy to duplicate and the data does not deteriorate, so you can make many copies of the same thing for a long time, and in some cases, it can be a harmful effect. For example, if you show it in the form of a list of names, you can copy it quickly and send it as a DM.

Third, the biggest difference between digital information and paper information is that digital information has a kind of structured database. We are just talking about how to show it, so in today's various discussions, we are taking various measures, such as not providing unnecessary information, using a registration number without gender, or returning only the answer after a search. This is something that can be done only with digital technology, so we will make full use of the characteristics of digital technology to minimize data. We will show what is needed to those who need it, but not what is not needed, and avoid abuse as much as possible. I think this is the potential of digital technology.

In that case, regarding "Issue 0", there are three. Policy 1, the slides are on page 3. Thank you very much. It is a little lower than now. If you could show me the next slide, Policy 1, from this perspective, in the review of regulations on paper and in-person processes, as a general rule, the same information as can be viewed in analog will be made available for viewing in digital. The same information will be provided for viewing in both analog and digital.

This is reasonable, but I believe that the purpose of Policy 1 is to eliminate the situation in which only paper can be viewed. The idea of providing the same information for viewing, whether analog or digital, in parentheses is a bit of an overstatement. As expected, we had to write down the same information on paper, but if it is structured digital information, it can be separated as necessary. This is a characteristic of digital information, and I think that it should be done in this way. I think that it should be considered as the writing style or interpretation of Policy 1 that it does not show the same thing.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister pointed out in the latter half of this report that, actually, if you read Policies 1 and 2 together, that would be the case.

Attorney Mori: Thank you very much, That's right. That's right, but since there are only a few major principles, I would like to say that Policy 1 should not necessarily be implemented. Policy 2 is Policy 2, and I think it is extremely important, but as an internal interpretation of each.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister I understand. Thank you very much.
Would you like anything else?

Mr. Inadani, next, please ask Mr. Ochiai.

Inadani Member: Thank you, Excuse me, Mr. Mori just told me that I had the same feeling as Mr. Annen, so I would like to say only a little. Policy 1 is based on the premise that consideration for privacy is not a problem in the first place, and the principle is the same, so I will make sure that everything will be delivered. In that sense, I think the "basic idea" in Policy 2 is probably related to what Mr. Mori said.

In addition, when I look at the paper on the "Basic Concept," I felt that the bracketed text on page 6 states that in order to ensure the use of digital technology in line with the purpose and purpose of the regulation, it is not a rule to show everything, but that in order to achieve the purpose and purpose of the provision, various things can be done, such as not showing unnecessary things by using digital technology. I wanted to say that I thought that consideration was given to that point.
Excuse me. Have a good day.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Perhaps there could be some ingenuity in the notation of sentences so that the purpose of Mr. Mori and Mr. Inadani's points will be realized.

Attorney Mori: Thank you very much, . Thank you, Dr. Inadani.

It is exactly as you pointed out, but I would like to add a little bit. The difference between digital and analog is Policy 1 and Policy 2 in the previous Policy. Policy 2 is about the balance of privacy. That is, of course, the main point. I came here to talk about privacy, so it is absolutely true. However, the flavor of digital structured digital data is not limited to the fact that privacy can be truly considered. It also has a function that viewers, or users, can get to the information they need faster or pinpoint it. Therefore, I believe that there is a difference between digital and paper information in general, not limited to privacy.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister , I think we need to make a general statement that we are properly aware of the difference between digital and paper. I think we should consider it well.
Then, shall we start with Dr. Ochiai and then with Dr. Masushima?

Ochiai Member: .
I also think that the points that Mr. Mori just mentioned are very important. The first reason why you felt that way was that although Policies 1, 2, and 3 are written separately as goals 1, 2, and 3, when creating a review process, I think that Policies 1, 2, and 3 should be considered separately. I don't think that we will just extract Policy 1 and suddenly create a process. In that regard, I would like you to clearly write that Policies 1, 2, and 3 should be read together.

With regard to specific considerations for privacy, I believe that specific adjustments will be made between Issues 1 to 4. At this level, we will respond in an integrated manner, and as Mr. Uenoyama said earlier, as a general rule, the scope of information disclosure itself should not be unreasonably distinguished between paper and digital. I believe that this is the way of thinking of digital consultation, but on the other hand, I believe that there are risks inherent in digital. For this reason, I believe that Policies 2 and 3 are combined. In the end, I feel that everyone who has spoken so far is saying the same thing, but I believe that it is better to clearly say that we will read all of them together, and I do not believe that this is the case. Therefore, how about clarifying only that point?

That's all for the part here.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Since a landlord like Mr. Mori had such a first impression, I think this is important after all. I think that the ingenuity Mr. Ochiai said is naturally possible.

How about you, Dr. Masushima?

Masujima Member: .

As I was discussing with the Secretariat in the background, I realized that Policy 3 is important. The details of God reside in the details will probably appear in Policy 3.
To put it another way, regarding the rules, Direction 3 is about technology and architecture, and I understand that various things can be done depending on the way of implementation. As for the search results, from the perspective of preventing unintended use, who is watching is specified. Who is doing what, and about the people who have been seen, how many pieces of your information have been seen is, of course, only for those who want it, but I think there are various ways of implementation, such as receiving notifications.

There are various ways to monitor how people view your information, and there are various ways to do it in implementation. By doing it in implementation, unauthorized use will be eliminated, and as a result, the risk of strange use or spread can be suppressed.

Therefore, as a general rule, I think it is important to have a broad perspective, but the last important part is the part of implementation. After the release of the Guidelines, each ministry will consider various ways of implementation, and at that time, we will have a look at the Technology Catalog. We will be firmly involved in this part. I think the actual state of damage and the appearance of damage will change significantly, so I would like to be particular about this. implementation

That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .

Secretariat (Osawa): Thank you very much for . I would like to make some additional comments.
I did not introduce the last point, but at the end of the paper, I will ask each ministry and agency to report to the Digital Rincho as necessary, so I think it is important to follow up on what you just said.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
I was going to divide it into three parts, but there is a relationship of time, and in the end, they are related, so please do not stick to this frame and discuss it.
Then, Itakura sensei and Iwamura san in that order, is that correct?

Attorney Itakura: . Nice to meet you.

In that sense, regarding Policy 2 of "Issue 0," as you are visiting Personal Information Protection Commission today, Personal Information Protection Commission issued the "Basic Principles of Policies Related to the Proper Treatment of personal data and Others" in May this year. In short, these are issued as points to be noted by the Government and each ministry when promoting some policy on personal data, and I think they will be helpful when considering it, so I think each ministry should take a look at them as well.

The review of provision, which is pointed out to require consideration for privacy, is nothing more than a policy for treating personal data owned by public authorities and others from the perspective of personal data, and the basic principles are truly in play. Therefore, I would like Personal Information Protection Commission to consult with us and consider it together.

Also, I came up with an example of what Dr. Masushima said in Direction 3. The information provision network system for My Number is fully logged about who has touched it, and in some cases, it can be disclosed. By introducing such a system, in short, unauthorized use cannot be completely prevented, but since the log of who has illegally used it remains, it will eventually be revealed. security - From a psychological point of view, such a system seems to be effective.

In addition, when we lawyers make a request for a certificate of residence in the course of our duties, depending on the local government, a notification will be sent directly to the person in question. This system is not common in many countries, but it is popular in some local government, so I would like you to refer to such a system.

If I have one more thing to say about Policy 2, I would like to point out that the system for architects that I mentioned earlier, and perhaps if it were to be created now, gender would never be included. As expected, the older the system was created, the more it would be incompatible with the current concept of privacy and discrimination. Therefore, I thought it would be better to consider that revision and revision of such systems, including analog information, would be required.

In addition, in the latter part, there are various systems to prevent the use of information for purposes other than the original purpose. In addition, the Provider Liability Limitation Act, which is a recent law, has a system to request the information of sellers, etc. from digital platforms. At this time, it is a kind of representation and guarantee, but it will not be disclosed unless a statement saying that it will not be used inappropriately is made. I think that it is the same purpose to obtain consent under the Terms of Use, but it is also part of the existing legal system to include a representation and guarantee, so I think it would be good for each ministry to consider what to do by keeping a balance.

If there is no precedent, it may end up being a naked balance of interests and we will not be able to keep going. But I understand your feelings, so I have mentioned several things that may be helpful. Please consider them.
I don't think there is such a thing as gender right now. I haven't changed it because it hasn't been a problem until now, but I think it would be good to change the system that we don't have now.

In addition, there was an argument that it is strange that the principle of Policy 1 is to make the same information that can be viewed in analog and the same information that can be viewed in digital, that is, to put the information that can be viewed together, but in the end, even if it is analog, it is premised that it will already go into digital. If that is the premise, I understand that the information that can be viewed should be put together. In any case, I think that Policy 1 is OK to do it together.

Thank you for your attention.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister Thank you very much for your useful advice.
Then, shall we ask Mr. Iwamura?

Member of Iwamura: Thank you, .

We would like to thank you for organizing the basic policy of the review based on the discussions so far. We expect that each ministry and agency will take effective measures so that it can be balanced with consideration for privacy while ensuring the consistency of handling digital and analog.
Looking at it individually, I believe that the problem of the address of the representative of a corporation being exposed to the eyes of an unspecified number of people on the Internet in the course of commercial registration does not particularly require immediate attention. In fact, I have heard from the representative of a startup that a letter has been sent to his home from a person he does not recognize at all. Regarding the review of the scope of the target audience, the proposal to limit the scope to interested parties shown in (2) (I) (b) on page 8 is consistent with the opinions of our Society thus far, and I do not find it strange.

On the other hand, I have heard that the discussions at the Legislative Council have been difficult because the outer edges of the stakeholders have not been determined. Based on this, I believe that it is desirable to objectively determine the target audience without subjective judgment. However, I believe that there will be privacy experts today, so I would be very grateful if you could give us your knowledge on whether it is possible to present a proposal for an objective definition, such as the person himself / herself, a person who has allowed access to the information, or a person who has a legal license.

Going forward, I believe it is important for the MOJ to accelerate the review, and I would like to ask Digital Agency to support the review. June 2024 is the last deadline, so I understand that it will be realized ahead of schedule, including other projects.

While premised on the Five Digital Principles, I would like to ask for a flexible and speedy discussion based on the request for privacy protection in front of us as I mentioned earlier. Keidanren will carefully consult with the Ministry of Justice.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Is it Dr. Inadani?

Inadani Member: Thank you, .
Since it is a ran dori, I would like to make a few comments on inappropriate use.

With regard to the protection of personal data, I have stated several times here that the key point is whether a reasonable risk management has been established as the overall structure. There are types of problematic acts that are subject to penal provisions, types that can be dealt with under the existing criminal law regulation, and types that can be properly dealt with under such penal provisions as the Slanderous Act, the Obstruction of Business, and the regulation Act. On the other hand, I believe that there remain questions about how to respond to acts that are difficult to capture under the current situation.

Amidst this, for example, I feel that the issue of the Bankrupt Map needs to be discussed in the future. In relation to the personal data Protection Act, it is a violation of Articles 19 and 21, and if a recommendation or order is issued under Article 145, Paragraph 2, and the court does not finally hear it, it will be punished. This may be my misunderstanding, but I am not sure if I can capture it. For example, if such information is abused and monetized while earning revenue from advertising and the like, if the sanctions system such as criminal punishment is well developed, it may be possible to increase deterrence against such acts by, for example, retaking profits. However, I am concerned that it may be difficult to do so if the situation continues as it is.

Or, if you stop once only with a recommendation, but you repeatedly do the same thing by creating a separate corporation, you will be in trouble. So, how to organize these problems structurally is a big deal, but I had the impression that it would be okay to think about it. So, I made a comment. Thank you very much.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
This is already a ran dori, so I don't mind if you speak more than once, but Mr. Mori, do you have your hand up?

Attorney Mori: Thank you very much, .

Regarding the stakeholders and addresses that the Federation of Economic Organizations of Japan talked about earlier, I think this is a difficult issue, and I do not have any solution. However, I think it is necessary to consider the address of a company, especially a large company, not a startup company, and the address of the representative has been used for newspaper coverage. It is necessary to consider the relationship with such reports. Of course, it is not good to go with many people and cause trouble to the neighborhood, but I also feel that it is okay to block it and not be able to cover the representative if something happens to him. So, I think we need to decide the stakeholders by considering various things from a private perspective. That is the first point.

The other is that Mr. Masushima mentioned architecture, which I think is quite reasonable. In addition, the Secretariat added on the last page of the Basic Policies that it is from the perspective of improving convenience for the people and administrative management by utilizing the latest digital technologies. I believe that this is also written properly, but this time, it is about qualifications, so I think that there is a story about distributed management such as TrustedWeb, which is being promoted elsewhere in Digital Agency, as an extension of this story. In the end, without directly visiting the databases of ministries and agencies using Verifiable Credentials, users can see that this person is definitely a qualified person, and that this person's qualifications are like this.

Above all, ministries and agencies will issue certificates, and qualified persons will issue certificates by wrapping them. Each and every one of us will have to do it, too. In our case, the data is not from the Ministry of Justice, but if each qualified person can issue a certificate with his or her own DID, the world of distributed data will open up, so we should leave it as it is, or market-driven will never advance, so I think it would be good if you could consider it at such a place and start from the bottom.

That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
So, Dr. Masushima, is your hand up?

Masujima Member: .

Then, I would like to make two points. First of all, I would like to make a comment in relation to the balance theory. In the case of Mr. Mori, I have actually discussed in advance what the freedom of the press should be. Mr. Shishido is also there, but the freedom of the press is not a constitutional freedom or a human right. There is also a question about how to balance it. How much privacy should be discussed in advance, such as the right to press the target of an interview and conduct various interviews? There may be various reasons such as contributing to the freedom to know, but I have reviewed the Constitution a little bit and have felt that.

The second point is about commercial registration. In commercial registration, we need to discuss with the Ministry of Justice why the name of the representative is written. We don't really know why we want to go to the president's office or why we essentially have to write our address. If it is done in order to realize some right, it is not good to do it in a way that prevents it from being realized.

What Keidanren is saying is that they are acting as an agent for the company, so they are not shown as much as possible. However, the same thing can be said for real estate registry. In real estate registry, there are many names of individuals. When it comes to what to do about this, for example, there is a right holder, and it is said that the address is written because they want to access the right holder. So, it is a question of whether it is okay to hide such things. It is also a question of what to do if a threatening letter like "You are going to be evicted." I feel that it is the same in quality that the president of the corporation is saying.

In fact, there are already companies that collect actual real estate registry ledgers in private sector, put them in a database, and provide a service that allows various companies to see them without going to a registry office. In addition to commercial registration, I think there is a reasonable possibility that the amount of profit earned there will have to be considered in real estate registry. So, we need to have a discussion that can make both sides of the story. In that sense, the Ministry of Justice is important.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister . real estate registry's Section B is like telling the story of life itself.

Masujima Member: You are right. He is talking about many things.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister You mentioned Mr. Shishido earlier, so could Mr. Shishido give us a few words?

Professor Shishido: I am Shishido of the University of Tokyo, .

I would like to make two points while answering how you think about the issue of commercial registration in relation to freedom of the press and other matters that you just mentioned.
First of all, it is a precedent of the Supreme Court that the freedom of the press and the freedom of the press are constitutional rights or are benefits that deserve to be fully respected under the Constitution. If this law was created with the intention of impeding those rights or with an emphasis on the effect of impeding them, I think there is a serious problem.

On the other hand, as the Japan Federation of Economic Organizations (Keidanren) stated, from the perspective of privacy, freedom of the press and freedom of reporting do not necessarily mean the right to receive information from the government. Therefore, as a result of restricting access in general, for those who exercise freedom of the press and freedom of reporting, it does not prevent them from finding, reaching, and accessing information by themselves in some form. Therefore, I believe that this itself does not pose a serious problem under the Constitution.

However, I would like to make one more point. The digitalization will facilitate people's access to public affairs by promoting information and data exchange. In that case, there are serious doubts about how much DX the media, as well as the general public, is doing, but I think it is examination required whether it is really good to do it in a way that has a negative effect on the media's reporting activities, which are supposed to be one of the drives. Even in that case, there are many companies that are fulfilling their public responsibilities at the same time as the management of each company, so in order to fulfill accountability in that sense, various reviews will occur on the user side by reviewing the regulation from the viewpoint of securing a certain number of contact points. From my point of view, this is exactly the essence of DX, and I think it is one of the manifestations of it.

Therefore, although there is not necessarily a solution to the first question, I believe that it is important to consider how companies will fulfill their public responsibility and accountability based on their positions, and how the media will do so.

In relation to this, I would like to speak about real estate registry, which Dr. Masushima mentioned. There have been various discussions on Principle 1, and I have thought that analog and digital should basically be the same. However, I am willing to say that, as you have mentioned so far, it is possible to distribute information more efficiently and protect privacy by using digital technology than by using analog technology. Therefore, when reviewing provision, which requires consideration of privacy, I believe it is necessary to create a framework in which each ministry and agency will carefully consider and propose this.

Regarding real estate registry, since we had to do it on paper and on ledgers, as you mentioned earlier about life itself, we can see the status relationships of people who no longer have any relationship with the land. Rather, I think it is important to stop this and to make it possible to see what kind of people have what kind of rights relationship in the snapshot at this stage. As you mentioned earlier, it is important to make it possible for people who have a necessary and justifiable reason or who are qualified to see it to be able to see the information in an accordion way, so to speak, to be able to see what can be seen on paper. It is important to make it possible to see it when we have to see it for various reasons, such as research purposes.

In that sense, as Professor Masushima said, I would like you to rationalize the discipline from the perspective of reviewing the invasion of privacy that has been done only because it is paper, in a true sense, using architecture.

I'm sorry, it's been a long time, but since you've taken the trouble to swing it, I'll make it the last time. The third point I would like to make is about the relationship between personal data protection, such as the prohibition of inappropriate use, and the issue of regulations on paper and in-person processes transmission, such as the review of Personal Information Protection Commission and each ministry and agency in each situation, including what Mr. Inadani said earlier.

Basically, each ministry and agency should review its own disclosure mechanism in a silo-based manner, and as for the perspective of protecting privacy, as Dr. Itakura mentioned earlier, I believe we should discuss this with Personal Information Protection Commission. However, there are several issues that have been raised by digital means. As a result of making it available for public inspection, there is a problem that the A service of the A ministry and agency, the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the existing public records and other public information on the Internet outside the A ministry and agency are combined, and there is a problem that the A service of the A ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the B ministry and agency, and the B service of the

This issue is beyond the reach of ministries and agencies, and I believe that the personal data Protection Act, which is a general law, and Personal Information Protection Commission, which has jurisdiction over it, should play their inherent roles. In that regard, as for (3) of the Basic Concept, it is true that it is appropriate to continue to disseminate and raise awareness of systems and rules, including related ministries and agencies in each law, and to appropriately enforce them. However, at the same time, unless we take another step toward more active efforts by the personal data Protection Act and Personal Information Protection Commission, for example, the utilization of the surcharge system associated with the prohibition of inappropriate use, I cannot dispel the concerns of the people and the invasion of privacy about the digitalization of regulation for public inspection, and I strongly believe that this is exactly the roles that Personal Information Protection Commission should play.
That's all from me.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Then, Mr. Ochiai and Mr. Itakura, in that order, please.

Ochiai Member: .

In that case, I would like to make it as concise as possible. As for the relationship between Issues 1 and 2, I think it would be good to organize them in such a way that digital and analog are the same in the first place, but unnecessary information is not disclosed and the minimum necessary items can be used, based on the use of digital and changes in social conditions, i.e., changes in ideas about discrimination, etc., which are suitable for the current era, as you have argued so far. Regardless of whether or not you can make a implementation for TrustedWeb and the like immediately at that time, I think that these will be reviewed several times, and it is necessary to review the response further in response to changes in technical means.

Second, regarding interested parties, I think the purpose is completely different in each law, so I think it is impossible to write uniformly. Of course, there are cases where it is effective to limit it to qualified people, and there are cases where it is difficult for ordinary people to see it. It would be inconvenient if we could not enter into a transaction without consulting with an attorney one by one. Since we are lawyers, I don't think it would be good to say something that would lead us to you. I think interested parties should be individual.

In addition, as an architecture for the final use of information, there was a talk about the rules of the person who viewed the information, but I think that ID management is also required for how the person has viewed the information so far, and I think that Dr. Itakura was told about the management of logs after that, but if such information is collected, I think that it will be possible to know whether the person has accessed the information appropriately later.

On the other hand, I believe there is also a sanction. I believe that it is necessary to develop the surcharges you mentioned earlier under the personal data Protection Act. However, I believe that it is possible to impose sanctions through such legislative development or individual laws, but I believe that it may take time to develop them. In that case, I believe that it is possible to consider imposing sanctions through other methods, such as suspension of access, as a short-term measure. Therefore, I believe that it is important to appropriately collect information and appropriately impose sanctions against it. I personally believe that penalties and other penalties should be strengthened in general for inappropriate use of information. design
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister . Penalties are difficult. Thank you very much.
What do you think, Mr. Itakura?

Attorney Itakura: To be very brief, regarding commercial registration, if I say it from the perspective of an attorney, from the perspective of pursuing liability by third parties, an address is necessary. It is bad that a lawsuit cannot be started without an address, so if the General Secretariat of the Supreme Court can start a lawsuit without an address, we don't need to touch it.

Even now, except for the proxy, you go to see the attached documents of the registration after certifying the interested parties, and in fact, you sue all of them together with a memo. I think this is because the environment is completely different between the companies that Keidanren is watching and the extremely poor people who appear in the consumer issue, so I don't think it will be compatible. In that sense, I think it is necessary to first consider with the Ministry of Justice what kind of person is recognized as an interested person by each Legal Affairs Bureau and have them take photos of the attached documents.

If there is a problem, it means that the current operation is not good, so it will be fixed. If there is no problem with the address other than the address of the transferee being photographed, I think it is one idea to consider that the interested parties can take photos of the address of the transferee. I would like to say that it is extremely problematic for lawyers to be unable to file a lawsuit unless they know the address.

The other is the penalty. As Mr. Shishido said, it is possible to impose a penalty because we are trying to make a profit. On the other hand, even though the crime of providing the personal data database, etc. has been included since the revision in 2015, there have been no cases. This has to be provided in the form of a database, so it is probably not used. In public authorities, even if you provide one personal data in possession, you will be punished, and in regulation, it may be a criminal case, but the crime of providing the personal data database, etc. itself is not good, and I would like to say that it will not function unless it is structured in the form of a database, etc. and can be provided.
That's all.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Mr. Ochiai? Here you are.

Ochiai Member: , I just wanted to say one thing. I think Dr. Itakura's talk is very important. Knowing information is to lead to some next action, and if we can do one time only, which is what Digital Agency is doing, in short, there are many things that can be solved by doing that. It is better to do one time only than to disclose information. I think the same is true for the point that you are talking about VerifiableCredential, and if we can take action, it will be fine in the end. After I heard Dr. Itakura's opinion, I thought that there were things that could be done without technology, such as making it possible to proceed in that direction as much as possible.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister Thank you very much. That's certainly true.
I believe you have made a series of statements, but I have heard that you are seeking a statement, Mr. Individual Intelligence Committee. What do you think?

Councilor Yoshiya: I am Yoshiya of the Personal Information Protection Commission Office.

Thank you very much for your time. Since we have time, you have asked us several questions. To answer briefly, first of all, thank you very much to the Secretariat for this summary. There are two points that I would like to convey. First of all, I believe that we have a considerable relationship with the Civil Liberties Commission. I believe that it is very important to have the purpose and necessity of the policy thoroughly discussed by each ministry. I am grateful that you have clearly written this point. In addition, since the point this time is privacy considerations, I am aware that some ministries and agencies are requesting slightly more than personal data. In that sense, I have heard about several articles, such as Article 19 and Article 21, of the personal data Protection Act. Regardless of whether or not it is written in the Guidelines, I would like to firmly respond to personal data, including other matters.

In addition, with regard to sanctions and surcharges, I believe that there are still various points that you have pointed out since the amended personal data Protection Act was just enforced in April of this year. However, we are not in a position to respond at this point, and as a practical matter, there is no record of enforcement, so we would like to deal with this matter. Thank you very much.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
So, that's enough for the first half, and I would like to start the second half of the discussion on the service of documents by publication Plan.

The service of documents by publication Plan is not disclosed.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .

Although it is not a summary, the draft Basic Policies included the relationship between Basic Policies 1, 2, and 3 as a written device, but I believe that we have received general consent from everyone, including that point. Of course, we will continue to consider the service of documents by publication Plan, but I believe that we have received general consent from everyone.

We would like to ask the Secretariat to revise the guidelines as necessary based on today's comments, and then send the guidelines to the members again. At the same time, we would like to ask you to formally present the guidelines to each ministry and agency and urge them to review regulation. Is that okay? You had a very active discussion today.

Also, Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister, I would like to ask for your final comment.

Chairman Okushi: Thank you very much, .

Thank you very much for your active comments today.

Today, although it was a long time, first of all, regarding the age verification guidelines for alcohol and tobacco sales in the convenience store industry, we received an evaluation that it is appropriate and reasonable in light of the Guidelines for Identity Verification of Administrative Procedures and the private sector Guidelines for Identity Verification. In addition, we are grateful for the fact that you mentioned the age verification method using smartphones in My Number Card starting next fiscal year, from the standpoint of promoting the spread of My Number Card. We expect that this initiative will spread to other industries such as supermarkets in the future. In addition, we expect that the private sector Guidelines for Identity Verification will serve as a foundation for the creation of guidelines in various industries.

In addition, based on requests from the financial industry, many digital reform policies have been decided in financial sector, which is the "heart of the economy." In other fields, we would like to advance digital reform based on prior examples of the review in financial sector.

In addition, the process to confirm the compliance of the bills with the digital principles will finally be implemented for the bills scheduled to be submitted to the ordinary Diet session, so we will steadily and efficiently conduct inspections and provide necessary support to each ministries and agencies.

In addition, based on today's discussion, we will continue to advance the specifics of our support measures for the review of regulations on paper and in-person processes and other areas in local governments, while receiving opinions from local governments.

Finally, I would like to express my gratitude to the members and experts for their open-minded discussions from a professional perspective on the basic policies for the review of provision, which is pointed out to require consideration for privacy. Based on the opinions received today, we will promptly present the review policies to each ministry and agency after making the necessary revisions.
In addition, I would like to ask for your cooperation in reviewing each ministries and agencies that you are participating in as an observer today in accordance with these policies for each regulation.

Thank you very much for your time today. I look forward to working with you in the future.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Then, I would like to ask the Secretariat to explain about the next Working Group meeting.

Secretariat (Matsuda): Regarding the next Working Group meeting, we would like to hold it on Wednesday, December 7, from 2 p.m.
As for today's proceedings, if you have no objections to the service of documents by publication Plan, we will keep it closed to the public. As for the other parts, we believe that there are no contents that are not suitable for public disclosure. Therefore, we would like to prepare the minutes later and disclose them after everyone has confirmed them.
As for the materials, if you do not have any particular objections to the "Secretariat Materials (Attachment)" and the materials other than the service of documents by publication Plan, we would like to disclose all of them on the JLSC website.
Thank you for your time today.

Vice-Chairperson Annen: Thank you very much, State Minister .
Thank you very much for your active discussions on a wide range of topics, and I think that I was very productive today in that regard.

Reference
The presenters and observers of Decision (1) "Preparation of Guidelines for Age Confirmation at the Time of Sale of Alcohol and Tobacco in the Convenience Store Industry" are as follows.

Presenter
- Yasuaki Tendachi (Planning Officer, Digital Extraordinary Administrative Advisory Committee Secretariat)
- KAMIYA Hideaki (OpenID Foundation)
- Reiko Kasai (Japan Franchise Association)
Observer
- Hiroaki Tatenuma (Director of the Tobacco and Salt Business Office, General Affairs Division, Ministry of Finance Financial Bureau)
- Kazuyuki Nakata (Director of the Liquor Tax and Industry Division, Taxation Department, National Tax Agency)
- Ichiro Watanabe (Investigator of the Personal Safety and Juvenile Division of the National Police Agency)
- Takeshi Nakano (Director of the Consumption and Distribution Policy Division, Commerce and Service Group, METI)