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Digital Extraordinary Administrative Advisory Committee Working Group (13th)

Overview

  • Date and Time: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 (2022) from 10:00 to 12:00
  • Location: Online
  • Agenda:
    1. Opening
    2. Proceedings
      1. Review of media to designate regulation such as FD
      2. Hearing from related ministries and agencies about permanent and dedicated regulation, In-person Courses regulation, written notice regulation, and regulation for visiting inspection and public inspection
      3. Toward digital completion in public service
      4. Exchange of opinions
    3. Adjournment

Materials

Minutes, etc.

Date

Tuesday, August 30, 2022 (2022), from 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.

Location

Held online

Attendees

Chairman

  • OGUSHI Masaki, Senior Vice-

Members

  • Junji Annen (Attorney-at-law, Professor of the Graduate School of Law
  • Tatsuhiko Inadani (Professor, Graduate School of Law, Kyoto University)
  • IWAMURA Arihiro (Managing Director, Japan Business Federation)
  • Katsuya Uenoyama (President of PKSHA Technology, Inc.)
  • Takafumi Ochiai (Attorney at law, Atsumi & Sakai, Foreign Law Joint Enterprise)
  • Masakazu Masushima (Attorney-at-Law, Mori Hamada & Matsumoto)

Minutes

Secretariat (Matsuda): Now that it is time, we will hold the 13th Digital Ad Hoc Working Group.

Members are invited to participate online this time as well.

In addition, please be aware that the meeting will be open to the press until the first session, which will be held today at the beginning of the meeting, to discuss the current status and review policies regarding the statement that media, such as floppy disk, is being sought.

In addition, we will also send materials related to the proceedings to the press who wish to attend the meeting.

With regard to the attendance of the members today, I have heard that Mr. Sugawara will be absent due to personal reasons.

In addition, with regard to the proceedings of the hearings with the relevant ministries and agencies today, there will be many cases today in which the relevant ministries and agencies will be replaced each time, and you will participate in them.

Before we begin, I would like to receive an address from Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister OGUSHI Masaki, who will newly assume the position of Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister and chair this working group.

Mr. Senior Vice-Minister, please.

Chairman Okushi: . I am OGUSHI Masaki, who has been appointed as Senior Vice-Minister for Digital. I will also serve as Chairman of this Working Group. Thank you very much.

I have been appointed Senior Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs through various processes, and I would like to make full use of my experience so far.

At today's Working Group meeting, first of all, I would like to ask you to discuss the review of media, which stipulates the use of regulation such as floppy disk.

As a result of detailed examination by the Secretariat, it has been revealed that there are approximately 1,900 regulation that have been established for this type of provision, and among them, there are a considerable number of regulations that may hinder the online completion of procedures and the introduction and utilization of new technologies. Therefore, we would like to ask all members to discuss future responses to resolve the Issue.

In addition, today, we will be holding hearings with relevant ministries and agencies on the seven priority items, i.e., permanent and full-time regulation, written notice regulation, In-person Courses regulation, and regulation for on-site inspection and public inspection, so I would like to ask for your active comments so that the review policies can be finalized at an early date.

Thank you for your time today.

Secretariat (Matsuda): , thank you very much. I would like to ask for your guidance.

I would now like to begin today's proceedings.

We would like to ask Mr. Annen, Vice Chairman, to proceed with the proceedings from now on.

Vice-Chairman An, I would like to thank you for your cooperation.

Vice Chairman Annen: . I am Annen. Under the leadership of Mayor Okushi of Niiza, we would also like to work with a renewed spirit.

Let's get down to business.

The proceedings of the 13th Working Group are divided into three groups. The first is "Review of media Sites that Designate FD and Other regulation Sites," which was just introduced by the Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister. We will receive an explanation on this from the Secretariat.

The second group is hearings from ministries and agencies. Today, there are four themes related to permanent and full-time regulation, In-person Courses regulation, written notice regulation, and visiting inspection and public inspection regulation. The first is permanent assignment of an operations chief of industrial dryers, the second is inspection of lost and found information, the third is training for qualified parking inspectors, and the fourth is related to the building lots and buildings business. We will ask hearings from ministries and agencies on these four cases.

The third cluster is "Towards digital completion in public service," which will also be explained by the Secretariat.

First of all, Mr. Kusunome will give an explanation on the "Review of media Sites that Designate regulation Sites such as FDs." Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Kusume): Mr. Yasune Nice to meet you. I am Kusume, Planning Officer of the Digital Ad Hoc Liaison Office.

Now, I would like to explain about Material 1.

On page 1, I would like to summarize the current status, media, and response regarding the revision of the regulations to designate floppy disk, such as floppy disk, which will be discussed today. This is a summary of the current status, Issue, and response regarding the revision of the regulations to designate Okinawa Prefecture, such as Okinawa Prefecture.

First of all, in light of the fact that the June Comprehensive Review Plan includes a review of applications by floppy disk and others, the Secretariat has reviewed the law again, and it has become clear that there are regulations to designate provision such as floppy disk in about 1,900 media.

As for the provision to designate an individual media, as introduced by the Senior Vice-Minister at the beginning, when the use of a media such as a floppy disk is specified in the provisions of administrative procedures, etc., it is excluded from the application of the Digital Procedure Act, and it is difficult to make the procedure online. There is one Issue for making the procedure online. I will explain this later on page 4. The Issue is for making the procedure online.

In addition, in cases where the use of old media such as floppy disks is stipulated as a method for the creation and preservation of lists and registers other than procedures, there is a Issue where the advisability of using new media or clouds becomes unclear due to the establishment of such regulations.

In light of this situation, as a future response, we would like to ask the Cabinet Office and each Ministry to review and scrutinize the list of law created by the Secretariat, and to consider reviewing these regulations.

In addition, we are considering compiling the review policies of the Cabinet Office and each Ministry by the end of this year and announcing them as the Digital Rincho.

On the following pages, more specific Issue, responses, and perspectives on requesting the ministries and agencies to review the guidelines are described, so I will explain them one by one, and today, I would like to hear your advice on responses to Issue and work policies.

On page 2, which you are currently showing, this is a summary of the specific results of the law search regarding the current situation. There are 1,900 law that will be subject to the review. As shown in the left-hand column of the table, there are 157 legal provisions, 148 Cabinet Orders, and 1,589 provision Ministerial Orders in the provision.

In addition, there are regulations that are established under general names such as "media" in a technology-neutral manner, and they are listed on the right side of the table for reference.

The next page summarizes typical examples of regulations and Issue.

First of all, as a method of application and Issue of administrative procedures, etc., as a pattern of designating a media instead of a document, it is a typical rule to submit an application form by submitting a magnetic disc as shown in the frame below 1 (1).

If a media is designated in this way, as shown on the left side below the frame, it may interfere with the online completion of the procedure, impose a burden on the applicants, and there may be a risk of media loss. As a response measure, as shown on the right side, it is considered necessary to review the Issue, such as by creating a new provision that allows online processing.

Below that, there is a dotted line frame called "Examples of Specific Requests." As you can see here, we have received multiple related requests from the business community.

In addition, as stated in (2) below, with regard to matters that are already permitted to be submitted online, although it is deemed unnecessary to take measures such as amending the law Act, we are considering continuing to inspect the operation of such matters.

Next, as a method of creating and storing the two lists and registers below, media is specified instead of documents. Typical regulations are within the framework. Regarding Issue, which overlaps with page 1, it is considered that the designation of a specific media will hinder the introduction and utilization of new technologies, and in response, it is considered that the regulations will be revised to a more abstract one.

As a precedent for the review of the provisions on creation and storage, as you can see in the bottom frame, in the revision of the Certified Public Tax Accountant Act this year, the provision of "adjusting with magnetic disks" has been revised to "creating with electromagnetic records." It is possible to consider revising the provisions in other law in this way in response to this Issue.

The next page is a reference material for the exemption from the Digital Procedure Act. Usually, as you can see on the left, when another law requires the submission of documents, etc., the law mechanism allows online access by designating ministerial ordinances based on the Digital Procedure Act. This is the framework of the digital method. However, as you can see in the right column, the Digital Procedure Act excludes the application when another law requires the use of information and communication technology. The use of floppy disk is also the use of information and communication technology, so if the provisions of media are placed by law, the competent ministerial ordinance based on the Digital Procedure Act cannot be applied. This is the Issue.

To put it the other way around, it is possible to consider expanding the scope of application to law, where a specific media is located, by reviewing the exemption provisions of the Digital Procedures Act, and we will ask each ministry and agency to consider a wide range of response measures, including such a possibility.

The next page is the revision of the law for your reference. I will omit the explanation because it will be the details of the revision of the Certified Public Tax Accountant Act, which is the prior example I introduced earlier.

On the next page, I would like to ask the Cabinet Office and each Ministry to check and review the procedures in (1). First of all, regarding the online procedure, I have listed three points from the top. First, we would like each Ministry to confirm whether all the provisions to designate media have been identified in the list we show. Then, we would like to confirm whether there are any provisions that enable online procedures. As a result, if there are no provisions for online procedures, we would like each Ministry to consider creating new provisions that enable online procedures.

To be more specific, as I have written in blue characters, we are considering responding by the ordinance of the competent ministry based on the amendment of the individual law and the Digital Procedure Act.

Below that, if online procedures are possible, we would like to ask you to check the operation as shown in parentheses.

Next, with regard to the use of new technologies mentioned in (ii), in order to make it clear that new media and cloud services can be used, we are considering having each Ministry consider reviewing the rules to make them more abstract, such as "creating them in electromagnetic records."

In addition, if it is necessary to exemplify the names of individual media, we would also like to ask for consideration of a review to a more technology-neutral provision such as media such as ○ ○ as stated in the last part.

In this regard, in addition to the revision of individual law, we would like each ministry and agency to consider responses by the ordinance of the competent ministries based on the Digital Procedure Act.

I apologize for the somewhat detailed explanation, but I would like to request the Cabinet Office and each Ministry to conduct an inspection and review in this manner.

Thank you for your explanation. However, we would appreciate if you could give us your opinions on the response policies and work policies for Issue. We would appreciate your consideration.

Secretariat (Matsuda): I would like to add one thing.

Originally, there were such voices in the requests of the business community, and in the procedures of various regulations, it is mandatory to submit in writing or in floppy disk. Companies and business operators have to buy floppy disk, put it in, and submit it. There are still various difficulties in regulation. This is because it is possible to send more and more data in a secure network or in cloud service, so we originally want them to be fixed properly. Based on this, we conducted a search on law this time, and it turned out that there were this many regulations.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

I would like to ask you a question. On page 4 of the slide, the right side is the problem, isn't it? Therefore, in the case of the right side, the Regulations for Enforcement of Act B become the so-called special provisions of the Digital Procedure Act, the general law and the special law, and the method of submission of the individual law takes precedence, I think. If so, if you delete this kind of provision, it will return to the main rule or basic principle of the Digital Procedure Act.

Secretariat (Kusume): Mr. Yasune Yes. You are right.

Vice Chairman Annen: I understand.

Another thing that is strange is that there may be some technical obstacles. I think that the reason why it has to be a media is that there are problems with communication capacity and security. But when I think about it, I have heard that patent applications can be filed completely online for a long time. Since they come with drawings, they must be heavy documents, and the security must be solid. But since I have been doing that for a long time, I feel that there may be some technical obstacles, but this is just my question.

Now, I don't need you to answer right away, but my question is still a question, and I would like you to say something.

Secretariat (Kusume): Mr. Yasune , may I ask you a question?

Just for your reference, at the time of revision of each law, if there is an opportunity to do so, for example, if there are remaining provisions such as magnetic tapes, they will be deleted. I have just introduced the revision of the Certified Public Tax Accountants Act, and such revisions are being made sequentially, and I believe that each ministry is taking the opportunity to advance such revisions.

Vice Chairman Annen: Okay, first of all, Mr. Masushima, please.

Masujima Member: .

It seems that we always give up the registration procedure by using floppy disks or CD-ROMs, and although it was too late, I believe that you will carry it out promptly and ahead of schedule, so I would like to proceed with it as soon as possible.

I would like to ask you some questions. First, I remember that in the past, there were certain types of digital documents such as creation, Issue, submission, and storage, and the lump-sum method was used based on the idea of how to make a digitalization for each type. Basically, as you mentioned a lot about Issue earlier, I would like to ask you if you could correct all the other parts, especially the storage and such parts.

What I am saying is that it is outrageous to bring a floppy disk, so it is better not to do so, and it is stupid to say that it should be stored on a floppy disk, so it should be fixed by all means. But more fundamentally, I think it is wrong to decide on a technical architecture and technology without permission and say that I should do it. If you do not pay attention to this, you will only be able to do what you are told to do because it is troublesome to take out a floppy disk in front of you. Therefore, I think it is necessary to be more technology-neutral and to make law digital, especially in the creation, storage, and submission of documents.

In relation to this, my second question is that if you are talking about cloud computing, I think what is dangerous is that there are probably servers that are specified. Servers that are managed by business operators. We need to stop such things. In fact, there is something called serverless architecture, and blockchain is also included. If you write server, it is essentially the same as writing floppy disk, and it is limited to a specific technology.

Now, we are talking about doing it in the cloud because there is a cloud, but we are talking about an architecture that does not require a server in the first place, so I think we need to make it in a way that can cope with that. This is my second point.

The third point is that it will be sent to each ministry and agency, but I think it is a story that the system or computer literacy of the people who do the work of the ministry and agency is not necessarily so high, so I feel that unless I present something like this for a typical thing, give an example, and say something, the shooting performance will decrease. In particular, I am a little worried that I may be able to talk about the server mentioned earlier, which is compatible with the cloud, so I would like to consider what kind of guide should be used.

That's all.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

I don't have much time, so I would like to hear your remarks and receive answers or comments from the Secretariat later.

I would like to ask you to speak in the order of Iwamura, Ochiai, and Uenoyama, with the honorific titles omitted. Thank you.

First, Mr. Iwamura.

Iwamura Member: . As the side that made the request, I would like you to respond to it. With the cooperation of Mr. Digital Agency, we received requests for such a review from financial institutions when we held a briefing session on the Bulk Review Plan at the Keidanren. In addition, as a nearby public authorities, there are cases in which floppy disk, CD-ROMs, etc. are required in a local local government, and cases in which public procurement cannot deliver design books on architecture and manufacturing information on pharmaceuticals in data. I think how to respond to local Issue is also one. I would also like the Government to respond to the procedures for local local government.

That's all.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one Three points from me.

You mentioned that you would like to identify government and ministerial ordinances, but I believe that they are quite often embedded in notifications, circulars, and forms, so I would like you to organize them so that they can be included in the scope of review.

Second, as Dr. Masushima said, overall, I think it is important to give instructions to check whether the entire life cycle of creation, storage, and submission is technology-neutral. At that time, you listed several types of media, but I have seen microfilm and so on, so I think there are cases where some specific media is designated in various ways. If you write down the method of washing out words narrowly, there is a possibility that strange regulations will remain, so I would like you to keep that in mind.

Third, as an obstacle to going online, it was often said at the regulatory reform Promotion Conference that the system could not be prepared because the budget was not taken or the plan was not made, rather than that the procedure was not technically possible. For example, the Financial Services Agency used e-mail as an alternative while preparing the system. Other ministries and agencies did not have to prepare the system, so I would like you to promote going online together with such cases. I would like you to encourage us to promote it, including the adoption of alternative means.

That's all.

Uenoyama Member: I would like to ask you to proceed with the project, and I believe that you will proceed with it, but in particular, compared to other projects, I think it is a very easy case for the general public to understand, so I strongly thought that it would be good to communicate this case in a way that the meaning of the whole Digi-in can be conveyed more by telling this case well.

Second, as I mentioned earlier, floppy disk is basically a method of implementation to achieve something, and behind it, there are requirements in terms of system design. In short, if you move data from point A to point B, you have a security, and you have a certain structure without writing down the several requirements to be stored in law, how to correct the wording will go smoothly.

Those are the 2 points. That's all.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

We decided to ask the secretariat to comment and respond to your remarks later, but all of you encouraged us to do a lot, and I feel that we have come to understand that technical neutrality and requirements definition are likely to be keywords. Thank you very much.

Then, I would like to ask all members of the press to leave here.

(Departure of Press Personnel)

Vice Chairman Annen: Now, let's move on to the second block. I would like to ask Counselor Osawa, who is in charge of the proceedings of the hearing, to proceed with the proceedings of the hearing.

Office (Osawa): This is Secretariat. I look forward to working with you today.

Regarding the hearing, first of all, as stipulated in the Industrial Safety and Health law, it is a permanent regulation for the operation chief of industrial dryers.

Mr. Kamaishi, Manager of the Safety Division of the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare Labour Standards Bureau, please give us an explanation.

Kamaishi: I'm Kamaishi from the Safety and Health Department of the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare Labour Standards Bureau, who was just introduced. Nice to meet you.

Based on the materials in front of you, we will explain the duties, etc. of the operations chief of industrial dryer.

1 on the 2nd page is the applicable law.

For work that requires management to prevent industrial accidents, an operations chief must be appointed from among persons with certain qualifications, such as those who have completed a skill training course, and the person must be made to direct the workers engaged in the work.

There are 34 types of operations chief. Article 298 of the Ordinance on Industrial Safety and Health provides for four duties of an operations chief of industrial dryers. The first is that when using an industrial dryer for the first time or when changing the drying method or the type of material to be dried, the work method must be made known to the worker in advance and the work must be directly supervised by the worker.

The second is to take necessary measures immediately when defects are found in drying equipment, etc.

The third is to check the temperature inside the dryer as needed, and take necessary measures immediately if any abnormality is found.

The fourth is to always keep the place where there is a dryer in order and not to put flammable things in the place without reason.

The third page is the subjects and contents of the skill training course for operations chiefs of industrial dryers. There are four main items taught.

Page 4 is the purpose, purpose, and background of regulation.

Since drying equipment is heated and dried using high-temperature hot air, there is a risk of explosions and fires. In addition, if chemical substances leak, there is a possibility of poisoning. Therefore, it is extremely important for a leader with the necessary knowledge and experience to directly direct the work and respond quickly to abnormal situations, especially accidents and employees affected by a natural disaster relief.

Page 5 shows the position of the operation chief in the Industrial Safety and Health Law.

Page 6 is the actual situation at the site. Since the objects to be dried by the drying equipment are in various states, the situation in which the equipment is also in various states is shown in the table. As shown in the table on the left, even if the objects to be dried are in the same state, the processing methods are different between the small amount processing and the large amount continuous processing.

In addition, the table on the right summarizes the differences in whether the ingredients are placed, moved, or mixed, and the distinction in how to dry them by applying heat. There are a variety of them.

Page 7 shows a diagram of various types of drying equipment.

Page 8 shows the occurrence of work-related accidents over the past 10 years. There have been about 20 accidents every year involving four or more days off from work, and two fatal accidents in 10 years. Looking at the accidents, there have been a wide variety of accidents, including not only explosions, but also falls, crashes, flying and falling, and contact with high-temperature objects.

Six examples of accidents are described on page 9.

The center of the upper row is the disaster of poisoning by chemical substances.

From page 10, I would like to start with "5. Current PHASE." First of all, it is about the dissemination of the first work method of the duties of the operations chief of industrial dryers.

If it is acceptable to make the points presented at the preliminary hearing known on site, the interpretation should be clarified. This dissemination includes the fact that the operations chief of the industrial dryer uses materials and the like to teach in advance to related workers who are unfamiliar with the operation of the equipment at the time of initial use, the start of use, and the time of change of the equipment. Before the work, it is necessary to operate and show the actual thing, explain it on the spot, instruct the related workers to actually do it and operate it appropriately, and confirm it.

Page 11 is about direct supervision after notification, but when equipment is newly installed, started to be used, or changed, the work procedure is more complicated than during steady operation, and unexpected changes and problems are more likely to occur. We believe that an operations chief is necessary to appropriately understand and respond to various situations.

Page 12 is about the need for prompt and appropriate responses to abnormal situations.

There are various abnormalities in the industrial dryer, and it is necessary to take immediate measures to protect the safety of workers. However, as described in the content, some of them are dangerous, and it is necessary for the operation chief to directly supervise and respond at the site.

In particular, as shown in ②, it is necessary for the operation chief to carry out fire extinguishing and rescue activities on site.

On page 13, we describe an example of regulation mitigation in which the allowable concentration for lower flammable limit conducted in 2017 is increased under certain conditions. However, it is necessary to deal with not only explosions but also exposure to harmful substances and other dangers. Therefore, it is necessary for the operation chief to respond directly on site, and the current situation is Phase1.

On page 14, with regard to the Issue for advancing PHASE, in recent years, it has become possible to control machines, etc., at an advanced level and with high reliability due to advances in technology. Measures to reduce the risk of machines, etc., of functional safety by adding functions such as electronic control have been spread as an international standard, but the system must have high reliability.

As shown in * 2, there is a demand for a failure probability of less than 1 in 100 million if it leads to a fatal accident.

On page 15, as I introduced earlier, there are too many types of industrial dryers, and I believe that it is impossible to make an appropriate judgment on whether the safety functions are appropriate. In addition, at present, I believe that it is possible to confirm the existence of problems in a wide range of areas by using the five senses and dealing with them by human beings.

Furthermore, in order to promptly and appropriately carry out fire extinguishing activities and rescue activities in the event of an explosion and fire, I believe that there are limits to the use of machines, and that there are no such machines. With regard to switching to digital, I believe that considerable careful consideration is necessary so that the lives and safety of workers, which is irreversible, are not sacrificed. Therefore, I believe that we have no choice but to continue with Phase1.

The following pages are reference materials, and page 16 is an outline of the technical guidance on functional safety.

And page 17 is law related to functional safety.

Page 18 and after is the original text of the 2017 regulation Mitigation Notice. At the end, at the bottom right on page 20, it is stated that the International Standard that this amendment referred to is the National Fire Protection Association Standard 86, Standard for Drying Furnaces and Incinerators of the private sector Standard of the United States of America.

That's all.

Office (Osawa): This is .

Thank you for your comments and questions about the current explanation.

Thank you, Dr. Ahn.

Vice Chairman Annen: , thank you very much.

Is it correct to understand that the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare (MHLW) believes that it is necessary for the head of security to be permanently stationed at the site for all the duties stipulated in Article 298 of the Safety and Health Regulations?

Kamaishi: Basically, I would like to say it in four issues at the site. However, to put it in detail, regarding the dissemination of work methods, if we use materials in advance, it is like classroom learning, and it can be done in the workplace, or it can be done outside the workplace where there are desks and chairs. However, the dissemination or teaching there is essential for practical skills, so before the work actually starts, it is necessary to have the workers touch the machine on the spot, explain it, and make them do it. In this sense, I believe that the site is essential for this dissemination.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

Office (Osawa): This is , I would like to thank you for your cooperation.

Masujima Member: .

In any case, this is a permanent regulation, isn't it? In the article, it doesn't seem to be written as permanent or something, but it is okay to discuss this on the premise that it is a kind of thing to stay for a long time, isn't it, Mr. Ahn?

Vice Chairman Annen: Except for what the section manager has just introduced, you must be on site. I understand that you are staying on site as you said.

Masujima Member: I see. I understand. Thank you.

I did not fully understand the meaning of what you said, so I would like to know about it. It is true that accidents should not occur, and various safety issues are involved. It is true, but in fact, accidents occur when people are watching. Do more accidents occur when digital technology is used? I do not know well what is used to determine such things, and I could not understand the whole logic. Have you done any demonstration or anything? I thought if you had done something around there, but it did not work out, so you thought that people were necessary, could you tell me about that?

That's all.

Kamaishi: , we have not made a demonstration experiments. I have heard that development of various sensors and safety devices has been advanced, but as I said earlier, we have not heard of development of a highly reliable system.

Masujima Member: experiments in particular, and that it is necessary to place people because there is a premise that it is safe if someone goes. I understand. Thank you very much.

Office (Osawa): This is Then, Mr. Inadani, thank you for your cooperation.

Inadani Member: Thank you very much, . Nice to meet you.

Thank you for your explanation.

I have almost the same questions as Dr. Masushima, so I may have a few overlapping questions. On page 9 of the slide, in the actual situation, I think that chemical substances and dust, which are listed in the examples of disasters, are quite problematic. I feel that such substances can be measured quantitatively, and even if there are humans, it is probably impossible to determine whether or not a substance is dangerous only by human noses or the like unless some quantitative measurement is made. Therefore, if it is dangerous unless it is combined with some quantitative measurement, even if it is not possible to make a digitalization all at once, I feel that it is possible to advance a digitalization of such substances that can be measured quantitatively and judged accurately. I would like to ask what your thoughts are on this matter.

Kamaishi: Even in the current operation of the drying equipment, various types of air volume, machine conditions, and various auxiliary equipment for detection are used to detect. It is like that they are judged by looking at it. However, in the end, people make decisions based on their five senses, and in the event of an emergency, it is necessary to be permanently stationed so that appropriate responses can be made.

Inadani Member: Thank you very much, .

In any case, even if people are watching, they are judging based on data from some machine or other. In addition, as Dr. Masushima said earlier, there is a possibility that the fact that there are accidents means that the judgment is wrong. So, I had the impression that it would be safer to go a little further, at least in terms of safety, than to do something more advanced, such as demonstration experiments, a machine that assists human judgment, or a method of design. Thank you very much.

Office (Osawa): This is .

Nice to meet you, Ochiai members.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

After your explanation, I believe you said that it is impossible to do so at the site. For example, in cases being promoted by the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, efforts are being made to advance digitalization, such as plant security, and to advance technology. In addition, a short while ago, in the National Strategic Special Zones, we were discussing whether other alternative means could be adopted to remove the odor obligation when relaxing the supply of hydrogen. For example, in overseas countries, it is sometimes measured by another sensor, so it is possible to substitute the part that is sensed by humans by another method of measuring information. This is actually being considered in other fields, but has the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare confirmed the content?

Kamaishi: and the parts related to METI, for example, boilers, I am sorry that I do not know much about other parts, but I believe that the industry and each company are working on various technical innovations or development of new technologies for industrial dryers, so I think we will think about it while watching such situations. At present, we do not know about the system to the extent that the resident can be removed.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one I see. Thank you.

I don't think it is only the MHLW that has not been able to closely monitor the status of technology and the efforts of other ministries and agencies. It is quite difficult to see whether there are other technologies that can be used, so the Cabinet Office is also taking measures to prepare a Technology Map. I believe that there are technologies that can be used to a certain extent in Technology Map, such as security. Of course, there are cases where it is better to have people in the end, but on the other hand, there are cases where it is reasonable to process this part technically and mechanically, and in some cases, it is better to make it an opportunity. I am sorry, but is it possible for you to continue dialogue with Mr. Osawa, Counselor in Digital Agency, while introducing such parts in Technology Map?

Office (Osawa): This is , thank you very much.

Last time, at the meeting on August 9, we introduced and discussed the Technology Map and the Technology Catalog. As you said, I think there are various technologies, including the Safety regulation, and I think the Issue is how to replace what is done by analog or human hands. So, I think it is necessary for us to brush up on the Technology Catalog or the Technology Map while listening to this realistic sense of Issue. Thank you very much.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

It is planned that each ministry in Technology Map will sequentially sort out the technologies, including those actually used in the field. I believe that the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare (MHLW) is unable to make a decision because it does not have information at this point in time, but is it possible to continue such dialogue?

Kamaishi: I think that's possible.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one , I would like to ask for your cooperation.

Office (Osawa): This is Then, Mr. Masujima, I would like to thank you for your cooperation.

Masujima Member: .

I am aware that there have been several cases in which it has been possible for a regulation to be stationed remotely with certain requirements. During the COVID-19 pandemic, an industrial physician may have been assigned to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare. I believe that the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare has provided the content that it is not necessary to be stationed at the site when it is possible to properly access the site and take a certain response. Is it possible to respond from such a direction? Is it a position that this is difficult due to some peculiarities?

Kamaishi: I am sorry that I do not understand the situation in detail even within the same government agency, but I have written down representative duties of the operations chief of industrial dryers here. I believe that not all of them can be replaced by technology, but there may be elements that can be replaced. Therefore, if there is a discussion about the emergence of such technology, I would like to take necessary measures after conducting a detailed investigation.

Masujima Member: .

It will probably be connected to the efforts being made by ministries and agencies, and as Mr. Ochiai mentioned earlier, there may be reference materials for other ministries and agencies. I would be grateful if you could make positive efforts by using Mr. Digital Agency's technology catalog and so on. Thank you very much.

Office (Osawa): This is If you don't mind, I would like to close this session here.

I would like to thank the people of the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare for your cooperation today. Based on the current discussion, we may ask you to consider it additionally, so I would like to ask for your continued cooperation. Thank you very much.

Office (Osawa): This is Then, this is the second point of the hearing. I would like to discuss regulation, which is related to the viewing of information on lost property.

We would appreciate an explanation from the Masuyama Technology Director General of the National Police Agency.

Deputy Director-General Masuyama: I will explain the situation of regulation related to the viewing of lost and found information, focusing on the matters related to the list of found properties under the Lost Property Act.

First, I would like to explain the general flow of procedures for lost and found items that are currently being carried out.

I'm sorry to bother you with the slides, but I'd like to start with page 3.

It is written in the upper right of the slide. The police station will create a list of found items submitted by the finder. The information entered in this list is compiled by the police headquarters and published on the Internet, so the finder can confirm it. The provisions related to this are stated on page 1.

Under Article 7, Paragraph 2 of the Lost Property Act, if the owner of a property that has been submitted is unknown, the type, characteristics, etc. of the property must be posted at the posting area of the police station in question, and under Paragraph 3 that follows, the document may be posted at the posting area by keeping it at the police station and allowing the persons concerned to freely inspect it at any time.

Furthermore, Article 8, Paragraph 2 provides that the Chief of Police shall make public the information on the properties, etc. publicly announced by the Chief of Police of the relevant prefectural police through the Internet or other means.

The following page describes the current status of operation and review policies regarding the obligations of the Chief of Police pursuant to the provisions of Article 7, Paragraph 3 of the Lost Property Act. To be specific, instead of posting the list of found properties at the posting area of the police station where the found properties were submitted, we are currently promoting digitalization of the list of found properties to be posted.

The lower part of this page shows the current status and future policies. In the regulation Comprehensive Review Plan in light of the Digital Principles, it is arranged that the current status is in the PHASE2 stage as a type of regulation for on-site inspection and public inspection. As stated in the Revision Policy, we will aim for PHASE3.

With regard to the access to the list of found properties, pursuant to Article 8, Paragraph (2) of the Lost and Found Property Act, which provides for the public announcement by the Chief of Police, the same content has already been digitalization and published on the Internet, so we believe that it can be deemed to be PHASE3 in effect. However, with regard to Article 7, Paragraph (3), we are preparing to further promote the digitalization of citizens by accelerating the convenience through the application of Article 8 of the so-called Digital Procedure Act.

Please continue to page 3.

The basic flow of the handling of lost property has been explained at the beginning, but in terms of the actual operation of the list of found properties provided at police stations, as stated in the column below, there are almost no lost property owners who visit police stations for the purpose of browsing. In addition, some prefectural police departments are able to submit a lost property report on the Internet, but there are many prefectural police departments that have not introduced it, and the service level varies.

Page 4 describes the background of the fact that the lost and found system currently being developed by the National Police Agency uses a system infrastructure that can be commonly used by police nationwide.

First, since the data of the national police is not shared, it is not possible to search for found items across prefectures. Second, since the search screens and search methods built by the prefectural police are not shared, it is difficult for users to use the system. In addition, there are human and financial costs and burdens required for the development and maintenance of each prefectural police. In view of this current Issue, the digitalization of the list of found items equipped at police stations will be consolidated by building a system on the common police infrastructure shared by the national police.

Please see page 5.

The outline of the newly constructed lost and found system is as shown in the image. By introducing online procedures using the Internet after sharing nationwide data, we expect effects such as convenience of citizens and cost reduction of the entire police force.

In addition, the transition schedule for the new lost and found system will be disclosed gradually by prefectural police from the end of this fiscal year, and all prefectural police are scheduled to complete the transition by the end of fiscal 2026.

Page 6 describes the Issue related to the maintenance of the newly constructed lost and found system.

First, we believe that it is important to improve the utilization rate by providing an easy-to-understand user interface that is more convenient for users, while further disseminating to the people through public relations, etc. the method of searching for lost property or lost property via the Internet.

In addition, it is necessary to continue to appropriately respond to inquiries at police stations and police boxes as a measure for people who do not usually use the Internet. In addition, in the transition of data stored and managed by prefectural police, we will make efforts while paying attention to data conversion work so that the data can be surely handed over to the new lost and found system and operation can be started without hindrance.

In addition, although not listed, we are considering revising the Ordinance for Enforcement of the Lost Property Act in conjunction with the development and operation of a new lost property system.

On page 7, we describe the transition of the status of handling of found and lost items for your reference, but we will omit the explanation.

That concludes my explanation.

Office (Osawa): This is .

If you have any comments or questions about the current explanation, please let me know.

Then, Mr. Inadani, thank you for your cooperation.

Inadani Member: Thank you very much, .

Thank you very much for your explanation. It is a very positive initiative, and I have personally experienced that I lost something but I do not know what happened to it later, so I would like you to build such a system.

One thing that I was slightly concerned about is that there have probably already been such cases in the past, but I think there is a slight risk that people will make claims that they have lost something even though they have not actually lost it. If something is taken up in a strange way, it will be very regrettable if the system is set up in a positive manner, but there is a stumbling block or a strange criticism. I thought it would be better if we could deal with such a matter.

For example, I would like to ask if there is a way to issue an alert to a person who claims ownership by accessing the Internet over and over again, for example, or if it is better to confirm the person's claim. If there are any plans to respond to the issue I just mentioned or any measures you are considering, please let me know. Thank you very much.

Deputy Director-General Masuyama: Currently, there is a slight difference between the information that is known to the people of Japan and the information that our police officers have, and the information that is disclosed is, in a sense, ambiguous, or it is difficult to specify the location or object. We have made such a difference. In addition, for those who have finally come as the owner of the lost property, we are taking procedures to return the property after confirming the actual property in front of them, so we are operating the system in this way. Even if transition is made to the new system, there will be no particular change in the basic concept.

Inadani Member: Thank you very much, I see. Thank you very much.

Office (Osawa): This is Next, Mr. Ochiai, I would like to ask you a favor.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one Thank you for your explanation.

I also thought that it was a very positive and wonderful initiative, so I visited.

There are two points from my side. One is that, in advancing such initiatives, if the convenience of the system provided by the people and the user interface are thoroughly considered, the utilization rate will increase. In addition, I think it is important to continue to gradually improve the user interface while measuring the status of its utilization. What are your thoughts on these points?

I would also like to ask what are your thoughts on the review of business processes to improve business efficiency, which I believe will be used by police from all prefectures as part of this initiative.

Deputy Director-General Masuyama: .

First, regarding the point you pointed out, I believe that we need to fully consider it, and I would like to make use of it in the future system development as Issue.

With regard to your second question, as you explained, the information that prefectural police departments currently input is not necessarily consistent. For example, in the new system, there will be a new standard for the color of the bag and the extent to which the content of the bag will be disclosed. Therefore, we expect that the work efficiency will be improved compared to the current situation by simplifying the input of police personnel.

That's all.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

I think there are some parts that are difficult for the administration to say, but I would like to see design and improvements made in a way that makes it easier for the people on the ground and the police.

That's all.

Office (Osawa): This is .

Mr. Masushima, nice to meet you.

Masujima Member: .

I thought it was very good that you actually made the system and operated it. Currently, in Japan, there are many people who pick up lost items, so they pick them up, but they don't come to pick them up very often. Is it OK to say that there are very few lost item reports?

Deputy Director-General Masuyama: Currently, as shown in the statistics, the unit of lost and found items is written in a slightly different way, such as the number of items found or the number of items found, but the overwhelming majority of lost and found items are left on the Internet.

Masujima Member: That's the point. I see.

In a world where people with such good intentions are willing to drop something and have it delivered, I feel that it is important to increase the number of people who do not come to pick it up or look for it in order to widely spread the world of people who have dropped something in Japan and have had it returned.

In relation to this, it is good to let people know that there is an Internet site like this, but in the end, there are various people who provide services to solve problems when they drop various things in private sector. If such people can be linked to such a system, they may create a website or embed such a thing in their own service without permission, and if they insert it here, they can properly inquire with the police, and if there is a report of loss, they can properly find it. I feel that such a service may be provided without permission. So, I think we will link the system to private sector. If you are aware of the system linkage part while updating the system, I feel that more and more of the things that have been picked up will be returned to you.

That's all.

Deputy Director-General Masuyama: Although the current situation has not been reached, we are fully aware of external cooperation when creating the system this time. It is not impossible to cooperate on the system if the other party is properly determined in the future. However, the current situation is that consideration has not yet advanced to that extent.

Masujima Member: That's right. I think there may be such a place, but I feel that there are quite a few business operators who have the idea of solving the problem of lost goods in various places, so I would like to make it open or connected to such people. Basically, if we accept notifications, we will receive updates, so compared to the current reference only, the security may be a little higher, but it is not impossible, so if you could aim for that, I thought that this gap would be narrowed significantly. Thank you very much.

Office (Osawa): This is .

I would like to close this session here.

I would like to thank the people of the National Police Agency for your cooperation today. Based on the current discussion, we may ask you to consider it additionally, so please continue your cooperation.

The third point of the hearing is the training for qualified parking inspectors. I would like to ask for an explanation from Mr. Sugi, Section Chief of the Traffic Guidance Division of the National Police Agency. Thank you very much.

Manager Sugi: Metropolitan Police Agency.

I will explain about the digitalization of the parking inspector qualification course from now.

First, please look at page 1.

First, I will explain the purpose and background of the training for qualified parking inspectors.

Due to the partial revision of the Road Traffic Law that came into effect in June 2006, the police can entrust private sector with the business of checking for abandoned vehicles and installing the mark.

The parking inspector patrols the area and is engaged in the work of confirming abandoned vehicles at the actual site, and the corporation entrusted with the work of confirming abandoned vehicles is to appoint a parking inspector from among persons who have received a Issue of a parking inspector certificate.

In the case of abandonment violation, the user of the vehicle is obliged to pay the abandonment violation fee starting from the confirmation by the parking inspector. Therefore, confidentiality is imposed by the Road Traffic Act, and it is a qualification that requires strict business such as being regarded as a public officer.

Next, please look at page 2.

The outline of the training for qualified parking inspectors is described. The training is conducted by each prefectural public safety commission, and in many prefectures, it is conducted once a year. The training time is 15 hours, and seven hours of lectures are given for the first two days, and about one week later, a one hour written final examination is conducted.

The final examination consists of 50 questions, and a success rate of 90% or more is considered acceptable.

Parking inspectors are required to have accurate knowledge and application in various traffic fields. Therefore, even after the lecture, they take the test after studying independently, but about 30% of them fail the test.

The lower column describes the general flow of the course.

Next, please look at page 3.

The upper row shows the flow from the training course to the Issue of the parking inspector certificate, and the lower row shows the flow from the person who has taken the Issue of the parking inspector certificate to the person who actually acts as a parking inspector. As shown here, the completion certificate is Issue to those who have not only taken the training course but also passed the final test conducted on the last day.

After that, after taking the necessary procedures and receiving a Issue for a parking inspector certificate, you will be able to engage in activities only when you belong to a corporation entrusted by the chief of the police station and are appointed as a parking inspector.

Please see page 4.

The current PHASE and the Issue shown by Digital Agency to advance the PHASE are described.

The current situation requires paper and human intervention, and PHASE is 1 - (2).

Next, please see page 5.

The first issue is which part of the series of processes related to this course is planned to be advanced by digitalization, and it is considered that the construction of the system and implementation to the implementing entity are necessary, but how to proceed is planned. At present, digitalization only considers it difficult to proceed with the final test, which requires more strict anti-fraud measures, and Issue of other courses, courses, and certificates will be advanced by digitalization.

With regard to the schedule, based on the "digital society for the Realization of Priority plan," the NPA is currently conducting earnest consideration with the aim of building and operating a common online system for each prefectural police department related to various administrative procedures, including online training. We plan to use this system to advance digitalization for this training.

At this point, we do not have the budget and we are not at the stage where we can clearly say when we will start the operation. However, we would like to advance the work with the aim of starting the operation as soon as possible.

In addition, the NPA will continue to consider responses to the matters described as digitalization in promoting Issue.

Next, please see page 6.

The second issue is what is the Issue to promote digitalization for the final test. As you pointed out, we recognize that digitalization can be an effective means from the perspective of business efficiency and improving the convenience of students. Regarding the digitalization for the final test, which is an issue, if it is possible to take the test at the home of the student, it is possible to take measures to prevent spoofs by digital technology such as webcams, but on the other hand, it is Issue that it is impossible to confirm the cheating act performed in the blind spot of the webcam.

In addition, if the test is to be conducted under human supervision by gathering participants at the venue as proposed, it is possible to take the same level of anti-fraud measures as the current situation, so it is considered possible to make the test online. However, since a venue with terminal equipment is required, the cost will increase in Issue whether the venue is rented or the prefectural police prepares their own venue.

Finally, please take a look at page 7.

As for PHASE, we aim to conduct PHASE 2-1 (I), (ii), and (iii), specifically, from application for participation to participation in the course and issuance of the certificate of completion, online. Regarding the final test, we will consider whether or not to make it online based on the progress of digital technology in the future.

That's all for the explanation.

Office (Osawa): This is .

Please let me know if you have any comments or questions about the current explanation.

Thank you, Mr. Masashima.

Masujima Member: .

In addition to this story, there are many Issue where you take an examination at the police. For example, you can go to get a driver's license. It is important not to target only specific things, but to think about the similar work that the police do, such as getting a driver's license, and how to digitalization such things, and to create a system like that, and use the same thing there.

By the way, I think I took a paper test when I got my driver's license. Is that a digitalization now? I remember I went to a place like Menkyo Center for CBT. Is it a place where machines can solve problems now?

Manager Sugi: As far as I am aware, there is no online academic examination. On the other hand, there is an academic course, and a mechanism to take online courses is currently being introduced and promoted, and in that sense, we would like to consider improving convenience as much as possible.

Masujima Member: , there is already one place for the driver's license test, and I think I am still taking it on paper. So, there is a system in such a place, and if I choose the options one by one, I can take the paper test. If you can create such a state, the software will be put out there, or if you change the questions, the parking inspector will be able to use the same system. I think that's the idea. So, rather than thinking about what to do with the system of the parking inspector, I felt that it would be better to take a broader approach and solve the problem in a way like this. Thank you very much. Menkyo Center

Office (Osawa): This is .

Member Uenoyama, nice to meet you.

Uenoyama Member: .

It may be a question that deviates from the purpose, but I have several questions. One of them is a bit technical, but I would like to ask you to proceed with a very good initiative by making a digitalization for the process itself. What is the scale of the number of people and the fee system of the contractor?

My second question is whether this will be an important issue when various things are parked in the future. To what degree is illegal digitalization and such things regulated? Is there a standard for the degree of regulation that should be? I would like to know if you are aiming for a world in which no more than one car can be stopped, or if there is a certain level of play or buffer and governance is to be done within a certain level of regulation. I believe this may be quite important when considering the future of digitalization, so I am asking your second question.

That's all.

Manager Sugi: First of all, in terms of the scale of the outsourcing, it will be outsourced to each police station. The number of commissioned police stations is 415 in 2021. The scale is shown in the reference section of the document. The number of entrusted corporations is 51. It is about a little more than 50. The number of parking inspectors is 1,930, which is more than 1,900. That is the scale.

In addition, there are units in each police station, but the current situation is that there are less than two groups, or one or several groups, where two people are paired up, so I understand that this is the scope of the work being done.

My second question is about the level of strictness. As I just mentioned, we have decided on each area, and as for the areas where we need to focus our crackdown, we have already established or must establish a strict crackdown by including such parking inspectors. On the other hand, our basic stance is to strictly enforce malicious and serious violations that harm the safety and fluidity of roads, including in other areas. Of course, there is a buffer, or a range, but in that sense, I believe that our direction is to strictly enforce the regulations in certain areas.

Uenoyama Member: I understand. Thank you.

Office (Osawa): This is In that case, I would like to thank the members of Ochiai.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

I thought it was very good that there were parts that were being positively considered, but I would like to ask some questions.

One of the points in (2) is that it is necessary to have a venue with terminal equipment. Even if the administration does not necessarily prepare equipment, PCs, etc., I think that there are cases in which, for example, dedicated software for testing is installed, and then the monitoring part, in other words, a situation in which other browsers cannot be opened, is monitored by an observer to see if they are doing anything else or looking at something else. For example, rather than using equipment, it is an option to bring in PCs, etc., and I think that there is a possibility that the cost itself may be reduced, for example. What do you think about this?

My second question is about revenue stamps. I believe that some prefectures are planning to reduce or abolish revenue stamps. I am aware that not all prefectures are advancing the plan at the same time, but digitalization is already being advanced in local areas, for example, Tottori Prefecture has announced the abolition of revenue stamps, and I believe that there will be many more prefectures that can implement the plan. Rather than not advancing the plan at all until all local government have been collected, I believe it is important to advance digitalization from the place where it can be implemented. What are your thoughts on this point?

NPA Technical Planning Division: Regarding the first point, the NPA Technical Planning Division will respond.

As you suggested earlier, I learned a lot from hearing that there is room for mid - to long-term consideration of an examination in which participants bring in terminals and install dedicated software.

On the other hand, at this point in time, if we do this, there is a digital divide, or rather, there are relatively many elderly people, and there are people who do not have such devices themselves, so I feel that it is immediately difficult to install software on the devices of the trainees and have them take the test.

On the other hand, as Dr. Masushima mentioned earlier, we would like to consider measures to reduce costs as much as possible, including the use of dedicated software and tools for students, through sharing and standardization.

Manager Sugi: : With regard to your second question on the seal, I cannot give you a general answer due to our relationship with regulation. However, I am aware that there are various movements in each prefecture, and based on what you just pointed out, I would like to proceed with the work while paying close attention to future trends.

I would like to digress from your previous question. In your earlier discussion about how many units are operating in each police station, I mentioned how many units are used. Of course, in places where there are large areas and many cars, multiple units are used. In places where there are few cars, even in places where I have experience, one unit is used. So, I would like to make an additional remark so that there is no misunderstanding.

That's all.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one ?

Regarding the equipment I mentioned earlier, I don't think it is necessary to prepare for all of us. In short, for those who can't do it without setting it up, while preparing some equipment, I thought that you were worried about the cost by making it possible to use the equipment you brought in, even if you don't buy it for all of us, so I thought that there could be a measure including such a method.

Manager Sugi: .

While referring to that point, on the other hand, there is also the perspective of fairness, so I would like to consider it over the medium to long term.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

As for fairness, I think the software should be used.

That's all.

Office (Osawa): This is Iwamura, nice to meet you.

Iwamura Member: .

Are procedures for and training for renewals included in the qualifications? If so, what is the digitalization?

Manager Sugi: As for the parking inspector system, there is no system to renew the qualification, so is it okay to answer that?

Iwamura Member: I see. Thank you.

I came here because I am aware of the problem that the renewal course may need to be reviewed altogether. Thank you very much.

Office (Osawa): This is Then, I would like to close this session here.

I would like to express my gratitude to everyone at the National Police Agency for your cooperation today. Based on the current discussion, we may ask you to consider it additionally, so please continue your cooperation.

So, this is the fourth point of the hearing. Since it is a building lots and buildings transaction related regulation, three regulation will be handled at once. Please explain from Director Miura of the Real Estate Business Division of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.

Manager Miura: Thank you very much, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. Nice to

Now, I will explain the three themes throughout.

First of all, regarding the registered training, we are conducting the registered training to improve the quality of employees who do not have the qualifications of a building lot and building dealer. At present, we are asking 24 private sector institutions, so-called vocational schools, to conduct the registered training. As the content is written, when the training is completed, an examination will be conducted, and those who pass the examination will be given the merit of being exempt from five questions in the actual examination for a registered real estate agent dealer.

It is the next page.

This is the flow from the application to the completion of the application for the course. As shown by the arrow, the yellow part can still be dealt with on the web depending on the school, so the application to the web lecture is also possible depending on the school. The passing rate of the final examination is above a certain level on the mark sheet, and if you achieve it, you will be eligible for five questions exemption. When you complete the course, the training organization will give you a certificate of completion on paper. You may take it and submit it by mail to the examination organization that will conduct the actual registered real estate agent examination, or you can submit it online. Regarding the parts circled in red, we are currently working with related organizations to eliminate the need for paper by enabling digital support in the future.

Please take the next page.

There are two main points of contention, which are presented in coordination with the Secretariat. In terms of which part of this series of processes the digitalization is scheduled to take, there is an arrow, but digitalization has already advanced from the course application in the first half to the course participation, which I mentioned earlier.

As for the final examination in the middle, I believe there are difficult Issue, but with regard to the application for the second half of the certificate, Issue, and the registered real estate agent examination, we will coordinate with related organizations in the direction of eliminating paper in the future.

I would like to add another point about the digitalization for the final examination. Since the final examination is an important examination that is directly linked to the success or failure of the actual registered real estate agent examination, strict identification and fraud prevention are required. At present, in these schools, students transition for the examination after the classroom lecture, which is called schooling, in the classroom. Therefore, the examination is properly conducted by strict examination supervision and identity confirmation at the Issue.

If a student takes an examination at home, for example, online, I believe that digital technologies such as webcams will continue to develop in the future. However, there are concerns that spoofs, that is, whether the student is really taking the examination properly, that there may be a person who is familiar with cheating next to him / her, or that fraud may be committed by placing the text in a place where the webcam cannot be seen. Therefore, we are extremely concerned about the fact that the final examination will be conducted digitally, and we have interviewed registered training institutions, and we have the same recognition.

Next is the flow of images. I would like to review this. In the upper row, which is circled in red, I believe that paper certificates for those who have completed the course can be replaced with digital certificates in the future. In addition, when applying for the actual registered real estate agent examination, it is possible to do so by mail or, in some cases, online, but in the future, I would like to proceed with coordination with related organizations to eliminate paper exchanges by basically online.

Next is the second issue, which is to view the list of business operators.

As you can see, a license from the Minister of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism or the Governor of the Prefecture is required to operate a business. In order to select a business partner appropriately, it is necessary for the business partner to know whether the business partner actually has a license or not, or whether the business partner has a good track record in the business. For example, at the Tokyo Metropolitan Government Office or the Kanto Regional Development Bureau in the case of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, it is possible to view these documents if you actually apply for them face-to-face or in the form of paper.

As for the documents that you will actually view, they are listed in small letters, but on the left side is a list of so-called business operators. And the main body of the license application form itself. On the right side, there is No. 3, which is an attached document. In this attached document, information that cannot be seen by the general public can actually be viewed. For example, the business history of 3-1, which is the results of transactions for five years, can be viewed by applying for a list of the results of transactions such as sales and purchases and brokerage. And in No. 5, you can see the names and addresses of the so-called owners, such as consultants and advisors. And in No. 9, balance sheets, so-called BS and PL, which I don't think are generally seen by unlisted companies, can be viewed by registered real estate agent companies. In order to ensure the safety of transactions, such documents can be viewed by law.

Next page.

On the other hand, we are aware of the problem of making such information available online for the convenience of users. In fact, about 10 years ago, there was a time when there were many cases of false earthquake-proofing or malicious renovation. In order for consumers to be able to transact with peace of mind, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism has established such a business search system on its website. This system is so widely used that if you search on the website, you can find it at the top. There is a website that is very useful for those who know it. Among these websites, basic corporate information such as the permission and registration of registered real estate agent companies and condominium management companies, as well as their addresses, company names, and representatives can be seen on the Internet by anyone.

Regarding the next slide, the issue is that improving the convenience of users is an important issue, and we fully understand that browsing on the Internet should be further promoted. On the other hand, there are concerns about the situation in which internal information of companies is copied and copied and widely viewed on the Internet by third parties. Based on these concerns, we have received an issue on what Issue should be taken to promote online access in the future.

I think there are some factors, but I would like to explain the current situation. At present, there are licensed administrative agencies, such as the national government and prefectures, and there is always a reading room in the office. There, the identity of the person who wants to read the book is confirmed, and the company to which he or she belongs is confirmed. Since it is reading the book, it is not copying or copying, so we operate it so that it is available for reading in the presence of our staff so that it is not copied, copied, or photographed.

First of all, if it becomes possible to browse online, the online screen will be copied with an ordinary camera, such as a smartphone or a single-lens reflex camera, and various information that cannot be seen by the general public, such as the BS, PL, and address of a person, will be circulated. There is a concern that this may be an act that deviates from the original purpose of browsing, and we are concerned that this may occur.

On the other hand, I believe that one of the points of contention is that it is sufficient to properly confirm the identity of the applicant. Even if the person sees the information within the scope of access, I believe that it is impossible to prevent the risk of the information being passed on to a third party or being distributed from one place to another. We are extremely concerned that the information will be passed on to a third party and eventually be widely viewed on the Internet.

We fully understand that another different issue is data storage, which will be necessary for advancing digitalization going forward. I will explain the online procedure on the next page, but there are currently 130,000 registered real estate agent companies nationwide, including more than 20000 in Tokyo. These are stored in paper files at reading offices, so it will take considerable effort and time to replace all of them with digital ones, so as a practical matter, it will be difficult to replace paper with digital ones right away, and I believe it will be a heavy burden.

Finally, the third issue is the posting of the vendor list.

We have a sample of the vendor form on the right side. When you went to a real estate business, you may have seen a plate about 40 centimeters long on the wall. In order to obtain sufficient information about our customers and vendors, we are required by the Building Lots and Buildings Business Act to attach a plate to indicate the basic license number, validity period, and the name of the representative. We have been doing this because it is necessary to attach a plate to ensure appropriate execution, but we have written a little on the left side about the flow from the license application to the posting of the vendor form.

As I mentioned earlier, license application documents are now submitted on a paper basis to prefectural governments and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. We will examine whether or not they meet these requirements, and if they do, we will make a Issue for the license. After receiving the license, you can actually carry this business form on the office plate and operate the business. This is the flow.

On the next page, as an effort to make the registered real estate agent form online, when I compare the registered real estate agent search system I mentioned earlier and the registered real estate agent form attached to the plate, basically, almost the same information can be found on the Internet. However, only one registered real estate agent Specialist, a registered real estate agent Specialist who is qualified as a Labor Specialist, has a name on the plate when he or she goes to the office and plays an important part in the operation of the Explanation of Important Matters. Currently, the name of the Labor Specialist is not listed on the MLIT search system. Therefore, there is a difference in information between the Internet and the real office plate. Issue

Last but not least, I have received two points from the Secretariat. First of all, with regard to making the licensing process itself online, we intend to advance the transition process from paper to digitalization by 2024, that is, within two years, and we are currently considering making it specific, although a budget for the development of the system is required.

At the same time, although this is a national system, we are currently considering the construction of such a highly convenient system so that it can be used by prefectural governments.

Another question I would like to ask is whether the information in the business operator form is the same effect, that is, whether there is a difference in whether the information is disclosed on the Internet by obligation to the business operator or in a lump sum through the current search system of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.

Another point is that there is a difference in the information in the case of analog and digital, and there is no need to have the same information. There are two points. As I showed you in the example earlier, the necessary information is disclosed on the Internet on the search site of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. Therefore, I believe that the same effect can be obtained even if individual companies are not required to disclose such information.

In addition, with regard to the disclosure of the names of registered real estate agent professionals, we believe that this information is related to the privacy of individuals. If we were to disclose this information on the Internet, such privacy information would be misused. In other words, information that such people work for this real estate company would be seen by people who are not involved in transactions. In the future, for example, I think we would have to be a little concerned about teasing, being interested in, or in some cases being a, and I think we would have to think about this carefully.
That's all.

Office (Osawa): This is .

Thank you for your comments and questions about the current explanation.

Thank you, Mr. Masashima.

Masujima Member: .

How to conduct the national examination is a topic that occurs in every Issue, so I felt that it is not just about registered real estate agent, so I felt that we might have to consider some other approach.

In addition, I could not understand the last topic of privacy very well. It is a matter of balancing the interests of those who do not want to hear about privacy and the interests of those who want to know about it. I felt that the information on where the people who managed to get Shi from a certain place in national certification belong and work is quite public information as long as it is in national certification. I feel that what they are saying is information that needs to be known.

When I was supposed to submit only my name, for example, I am a samurai, but all of us are exposed on the Internet, and where we are doing it is also known. From a position like this, we do not have any stalkers, and there is no such thing as a. There may be people who are stalked, but it is an individual matter, so the reason why we have decided not to submit it is because of the system. Without the idea that a registered real estate agent is not such an important qualification, it seems that we cannot balance the fact that it should be made public and the fact that it should not be made public. On the other hand, you just explained that a registered real estate agent is an indispensable person for building transactions. So, I would like to know how the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Communications is thinking about balancing the fact that this name will not be submitted.

That's all.

Manager Miura: Thank you very much, .

We believe that the roles and duties of a licensed registered real estate agent are extremely important. As you just introduced, we believe that it is an important qualification because it performs the duty of explaining to customers properly in sales contracts and lease contracts.

On the other hand, there are other so-called shigyo. Shigyo, I may not have studied enough, but basically, these registered real estate agent professionals are so-called hired employees. Rather than doing business on behalf of the company or signing autographs as representatives of the company, they are responsible for explaining to customers as experts in transactions. I think that it has a slightly different meaning than so-called shigyo in that they are not independent in business. In national certification, when I talked about various things in a businesslike manner, we were not familiar with some of them. Recently, in various industries, the percentage of qualifications such as those for transaction management, guidance, and company management can be seen on the Internet. In the business of explaining to customers as experts in transactions, registered real estate agent professionals should be in a state where the information can be widely seen in the world. I think we need to think about various things now. I would like to hear the knowledge and advice of teachers who are familiar with the protection of personal data and the ideal way of disclosing information in the Internet society.

Masujima Member: I see. Thank you very much.

For example, in the financial world, there are people who sell insurance and insurance sales representatives. It is true that these people are also registered after taking an examination, but their names are not disclosed. There may be a certain way of thinking throughout the country if we look at the lateral system. If such a thing occurs, I feel that we may be able to create a unified perspective on what will be disclosed and what will not be disclosed. I have learned a lot. Thank you very much.

Manager Miura: Thank you very much, .

Also, any professional advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

Masujima Member: .

Office (Osawa): This is Then, Member Inadani, nice to meet you.

Inadani Member: Thank you very much, .

I am also concerned about privacy, so I would like to say a few things. I believe that the risk you are talking about is probably different from, for example, the risk in the form of a so-called bankruptcy map. In the case of a bankruptcy map, the information that is actually disclosed will eventually lower the social evaluation of people, but since the information is already disclosed, I think it may be a problem that it is quite difficult to question the person for a so-called criminal offense.

In addition, I think it is a case in which it can be said to be a tort in the first place under the civil law, but it will be a difficult issue legally. On the other hand, regarding the possibility of, which you just mentioned, there is a law that requires regulation for stalkers, etc., so in short, when considering the cost and benefit that Mr. Masushima mentioned, the risk of such an act occurring due to an act that is subject to strict legal regulation such as criminal regulation has been reduced, and in light of the public interest of the business, whether or not to disclose the information should be considered and weighed, and it may be a more organized discussion. What are your thoughts on this point? If there is anything at this point, please let me know.

Manager Miura: Thank you very much, .

Since we do not have sufficient knowledge about the regulation Law, I have mentioned as an example. As I mentioned at the beginning, this information can be found on the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism website as corporate information like a retrieval system. When you click on a company name, for example, when you click on the name of a major company, if you want to put the name of a registered real estate agent, there will be dozens of registered real estate agent in the major company, which is more than one in five regulation. In other words, if there are 100 employees, the names of 20 registered real estate agent are written on the plate at the same time, which can be seen on the Internet.

If that is the case, people who belong to the company, that is, the place where these people work is linked to this company. Some people have nothing to do with transactions, and some people do not intend to do business with this company. If you look at it on the Internet, you can access it from all over Japan. So, we are a little worried that it will be used for such interest, collection of names, or other purposes different from the original purpose. If data is collected by someone, it will be like a in some cases, or it will be called a solicitation, but it is wrong to call it a solicitation, but it will expose the risk of unwanted contact.

Inadani Member: Thank you very much, .

I would like you to consider it while taking into account the points I have mentioned. Thank you very much.

Manager Miura: Thank you very much, . Nice to meet you.

Office (Osawa): This is , nice to meet you.

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

I am also thinking of several points.

One is the issue of privacy, which I mentioned earlier. Of course, privacy needs to be considered in determining what kind of information needs to be disclosed, but because disclosure can play an important role, I think it is important to make such information visible to the outside world.

For example, in the case of the profession, many people are working in the form of non-representatives within the company or the corporation of the profession, so I think it is not always the case that other professionals are only those who conduct such independent business. In such a situation, I think it is important to consider the significance of registered real estate agent companies.

In addition, I would like to ask another question. It is important to consider the content of information disclosure in an organized manner. I believe there are parts that are divided into online and analog disclosure. However, even if you browse information, you may be able to understand enough information from it, and in modern society, it is not possible to absolutely contain such information only by adopting an analog method. I believe it is important to consider which way to go to and where to draw the line so that digital and analog will be in the same direction as much as possible. I would like you to consider this point further.

That's all.

Office (Osawa): This is If you have any comments, please do so.

Manager Miura: Thank you very much, .

It may be a little overlapping answer, but in the conventional type without the Internet, I think it was very meaningful to provide a sense of security to places where transactions are made. When various information becomes widely visible in the Internet society, we go to the existing office to check the information properly and get a sense of security there. As mentioned earlier, we don't know anything about the Internet for the time being, but in the state where names can be collected, to what extent we will be able to search for the so-called personal names of registered real estate agent professionals. We are also lacking in knowledge. So, I think I would like to be able to adjust well in the overall arrangement by receiving advice from Mr. Digital Agency. Thank you for your extremely valuable advice. registered real estate agent

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

I think there are various ways such as making it impossible to search the database more than once in a row, so I would like you to consider various ways.

That's all.

Manager Miura: Thank you very much, .

Office (Osawa): This is I would now like to close this session.

I would like to thank all of you at the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism for your cooperation today. Based on the current discussion, we may ask you to consider it additionally, so please continue your cooperation.

Then, I am sorry for pushing you so much. I will return the proceedings to Mr. Ahn Nen. Thank you.

Vice Chairman Annen: , thank you very much. These are the four hearings, and today is the end.

I would like to enter today's final agenda item, "Towards a digital completion in public service."

I would like to speak to Counselor Suga, CTO Fujimoto and Data Analyst Kashida. Nice to meet you.

Secretariat (Suga): .

At the Working Group meeting on May 20, CTO Fujimoto talked about how to advance the digital completion of administrative procedures based on the requests of the business community, how the Digi-Agency as a whole will think about the approach from the system side, and how the National Policy Coordination Council will cooperate. After that, we have been discussing with a team of volunteers in the Digi-Agency, and this time, Mr. Kashida, who is the key man of the team, would like to introduce the administrative procedures that the National Policy Coordination Council considers Issue and law's approach to digital completion, including budget projects such as benefit, which has no basis in. CTO Fujimoto is also present at the meeting to respond to the questions and answers. public service

So, Kashida-san, nice to meet you.

Kashida Data Analyst: . I'm Kashida from Digital Agency. Nice to meet you all.

With regard to this document, rather than individual procedures, I would like to introduce a concept or framework for the necessary arrangement to aim for the so-called digital completion of administrative procedures, and I would like you to take a look at it from such a perspective and give us your comments and opinions.

In particular, there are two main points that I would like to emphasize in this document. I believe that the term "digitalization of administrative procedures" is often used, but since procedures involve various systems and flows, the benefits obtained depend greatly on which part and how much digitalization is performed, so one proposal is that it would be better to talk about which digitalization is being referred to among several types of digital completion to some extent. The other proposal is that I would like to briefly introduce the organization of actions, such as what actions are actually necessary and what kind of approaches are necessary for the Digital Rincho in the case of aiming for so-called complete digitalization or deep.

From that perspective, I would like you to take a look at the framework shown in the figure. This is a so-called simple conceptual diagram, but administrative procedures can be described as a request response model in general IT. In short, a request is made by a person who wants to complete a certain procedure, in other words, some kind of application is made or the procedure is started, and the recipient, basically an administrative person, receives the application, and processes it using a legacy system or a legacy database, which is actually behind it. As a result, some kind of response is made, for example, a resident card is issued, a benefit is paid, or some other action is taken. I believe that the flow from (I) to (vi) can be drawn as a simple flow for administrative procedures.

As you are aware, each of (I) to (vi) is being carried out as a legacy, and administrative procedures are, for example, the UX of the person who actually applies is bad, or there is a cost behind the scenes, so I think that by digitalization (I) to (vi), activities to improve the experience or reduce the cost are considered to be the scope of so-called digitalization and Digital Agency activities.

However, depending on which part of (I) to (vi) is digitalization, the results obtained from them or the number of man-hours will differ greatly, so it is necessary to classify them and discuss them carefully. This is the essence of this proposal.

For example, some types are shown here, but in the flow of the procedure earlier, please understand that this blue part is the actual part of the digitalization. At that time, for example, what often happens is that the part where the resident or business operator who makes the request can make the application is made through the Internet, and the part where the request is made is made through the digitalization. On the other side, the person who actually receives the application is still doing it as before, and the system and flow that follow it are all legacy. If that is the case, the time and effort of the person who makes the request in (1) can be saved a little, but the waiting time is basically the same as on paper, and the administrative cost is not so different from the current one, so I think the reality is that only a little benefit can be obtained.

However, when the digitalization of administrative procedures is discussed in the context of digital coordination and administration, I believe there is a point where it is said that the digitalization of only so-called part (1) is also the digitalization, and I think it is quite surprising that it cannot be said in the same way as the process in which more parts are digitalization, which is called Phase2 and Phase3, which follow this. I believe that one major assertion is that when talking about the digitalization of administration in the future, it is necessary to distinguish which type it refers to.

Basically, in terms of the world view of digital completion, I believe that it is appropriate to define digital completion as a state in which all parts, including the part that makes the first request, the part that receives the request, the part that processes the request, and the part that returns the request, are properly updated, including the information on the other side. This is what we and the people involved in the digitalization in Digital Agency are thinking.

The specific meaning of this is that the entity making the request does not need to collect paper documents, information, and necessary things on their own. For example, if they present some form of identification such as their My Number or business ID on the system, the necessary data corresponding to the ID on the back side, such as their resident card or income exemption information, is automatically linked, and the procedure is completed in an instant. Such a world view as the so-called 60-second smartphone completion of administrative procedures should be called digital completion, and I believe that this and the one on the far left should be basically distinguished.

In addition, as for the future world, if a person who wants to take the procedure does not make a request and takes the procedure, by opting in in the form of saying that he or she will be allowed to take the procedure if necessary, the AI will automatically determine that the person needs to take the procedure, and the procedure will be completed automatically. Then, if you tell the person that the procedure has been completed and the applicant says that it is OK, the procedure will be completed automatically. I think that a data-driven world view in which the procedure is completed like air is goal in the end, but for the time being, I think it is necessary to aim for Phase3, which is called digital completion, in which all of this is done, as a necessary passage point to aim for Ambient.

For example, since your talk was very conceptual, I would like to give an example of a specific procedure with one common example.

For example, with the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is taking an extremely large number of man-hours to make a benefit for a restaurant to be closed due to the COVID-19, and Digital Agency is currently considering and advancing a mechanism for procedures that would allow all of this to be completed digitally. To be specific, this information is now required when applying for a benefit for a restaurant to cooperate in self-restraint.

The actual situation is that we collect and submit paper documents that certify the identity of the person, business licenses, and proof of the actual state of business operations. For example, receipts for electricity bills, sales-related data, and the account to which the benefit is transferred.

What is the status of digital completion? Information on stores and permits related to corporations is held by each ministry and agency behind the scenes. In terms of business conditions and sales, for example, electricity consumption data is being negotiated with related parties within the framework based on the Electricity Utilities Industry Law. In terms of sales, digitalization is basically possible by using cloud service in private sector, where digitalization is advanced, such as so-called freee and Miyagi-Shukuhakuwari. By realizing such a state, I believe it is extremely necessary for the applicant to aim for a state in which ID cooperation is carried out behind the scenes by posting ID instead of collecting information on paper, and the procedure is completed in an instant.

What is important in this regard is that when we understand the so-called goal setting, which is that it is fine if the data is linked behind the scenes, we will discuss what actions are necessary to realize that state. This is also organized as an example of self-restraint cooperation funds for restaurants.

As I mentioned earlier, this is information that is necessary for the procedure. I would like to ask the person in charge if the data related to this information, the data held behind the scenes, can actually be used now. I would like to ask the person in charge if it can be used automatically in order to complete the procedure.

To put it very simply, there are three elements necessary to use such data for the digital completion procedure mentioned earlier. The law must be in place, the data itself must be in place, and the data that has been in place must be usable and in a system that can be used.

This is an example, but the status of the development of necessary procedural data is as it is now. If all the necessary development related to (I) to (iii) can be "completed," that is, brought to a blue state, it is basically possible to think that the entire digitalization of procedures will proceed in a manner similar to smartphone completion in 60 seconds. Therefore, regarding the necessary procedures, I believe that by mapping how much development has progressed and what bottlenecks have not progressed, discussions will progress on the necessity of pushback, such as the development of law here, or the development of data maintenance in cooperation with various ministries and agencies, for example, through the Digital Dialogue. Therefore, I would like to propose the idea of a map.

In closing, I would like to make a supplementary note. I have just presented a map of one procedure. In this case, I have briefly summarized the necessary documents and procedures for what kind of documents and data are necessary for six specific procedures.

In that case, what will emerge is so-called general-purpose information, which is naturally necessary for any procedure. In this case, so-called procedures for business operators are taken as an example, so commercial registration, corporate information, or data related to sales and business conditions such as final tax returns are basically necessary regardless of the procedure, so it is possible to consider more general-purpose data. I think one thing will be stated that the development of such data is more urgent than anything else.

On the other hand, for example, information that is unique to the industry, such as qualifications for architecture in the case of architecture, qualifications for food and drink in the case of food and drink, or procedure-specific information. For example, evidence such as self-restraint in the case of executive order for quarantine funds, which I mentioned earlier, is somewhat less versatile, so we are using a map to distinguish whether it is unique to the procedure or whether it is highly versatile and can be used in overhead in any procedure. We are also working on strategies in order to unlock what kind of procedure, what kind of government agency and what kind of law, and then we will make a very quick digitalization. That is what I am proposing.

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit pressed for time, so I have to rush, but that's all I have prepared for you.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

What do you think? If there is anything you can point out, I will ask you.

Mr. Uenoyama, please.

Uenoyama Member: .

I am listening to this because I think this sort of arrangement is wonderful, and I had a strong feeling that if the sort of arrangement on page 3 becomes a common understanding, it will really progress. I believe that this is being advanced on page 5. I believe that (4) in Phase3 in particular is very important, and I believe that it is about making this data accessible. If I were to say this part in the arrangement on page 5, I would like to ask one question. Is the utilization environment in (3) on the far right of page 5 considered to be the same as API? In the process of arranging various things, there may be places that need to be moved to the extent that they are not API. Please tell me one thing about what it is like here.

Kashida Data Analyst: .

As you just pointed out, we are in the middle of sorting it out. Regarding the definition of this, opinions differ depending on the person in charge, but in general, I can say that the phrase "API" is at least correct.

Opinions are divided. Even if it is simply made into an API, it is meaningless if the response is slow or the availability is low depending on the method of API. Therefore, there is an opinion that simple API is not yet complete, and that (3) cannot be said to be complete unless it is made into a modern API with certain conditions. Currently, we are conducting a survey, but I think that it is necessary to refine the definition while conducting a little research on whether there are other blockers or not in terms of whether it can be used without any problems when a modern API is simply cut off. I recognize that the question you asked is exactly what needs to be done.

Uenoyama Member: .

However, in any case, if we can visualize these five pages, I think the difficulty of this problem is whether we can proceed with traffic control while various departments and organization are involved in a cross-sectional manner. If we can create a common recognition that can shift to a game that colors with a simple framework like this, I think it will advance greatly.

I'm sorry, I'm a little bit of an impression, but that's all I have to say.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

Mr. Inadani, how are you?

Inadani Member: Thank you very much, .

I think it is really great progress that I thought it was worth it just to attend today to hear this story.

I think it is very important to aim for what we call Ambient in this Phase. The reason for this is that there are many people who need social assistance but do not even know about the existence of systems and procedures. I think the benefit of being able to automatically provide services to such people is huge. In addition, that is why, on the contrary, for example, in relation to the point made by Mr. Uenoyama on page 5, when there is a situation where it is absolutely necessary to use various personal data while combining them, I think there will always be a question about how it is in terms of data protection law, and I think it will be the key to answering such questions. There may be risks, but considering the fact that there are many people who cannot access essential services and cannot receive protection after all, I think the benefit outweighs the risk of data abuse.
In addition, as another comment, when I heard about the use of data, whether it was the second or third time of this Working Group, I think I heard about the technology that enables services to combine data without actually combining the data held by each ministry and agency into a huge database by making good use of data flows alone without combining data. Therefore, I think that if such an architecture is adopted, the tolerance of the system will increase in relation to privacy.

In relation to law related to data protection and privacy, we would like you to build a good architecture so that we can advance to Level 3 and Level 4. Thank you very much.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

Also, Mr. Ochiai, is your hand up?

Ochiai Member: Would you like just one .

I also think that there has been tremendous progress. I think it is truly wonderful, and I believe that sorting out these matters is the very value of the Consultative Meeting.

In particular, in Phase2 and Phase 3, which you are currently showing us, I believe that it is important for digitalization to clearly indicate to each ministry and agency that it will not be recognized unless we proceed to this point in our various efforts. I believe that it is important for us to be as conscious as possible about this, to make the back office part easier, so that people on the ground do not dislike it, and to improve efficiency, so I hope that we can raise that to a higher principle.

Regarding the database, as Dr. Inadani mentioned earlier, I believe it is important to basically enable shared use with loose coupling. I believe that Dr. Masushima pointed out in the previous agenda with an awareness of shared use, and I believe that it is extremely important that data mapping is being advanced as a premise for this. I believe that it is because of this that we will be able to strategically create what we need to create. This is what we are doing very strategically in Europe, and I believe that Japan has been acting on an ad hoc basis. I believe that it is an extremely important initiative to catch up on such parts.

Finally, the third point is about the part about the Data Law that Dr. Inadani mentioned. I think there is also a part about personal data, but for example, in the study of medical care, I sometimes discuss it while I am in the MHLW study group. There, we are discussing whether there is a possibility that we will not give consent while strengthening governance. In such a situation, for example, doctors of the Medical Affairs Law are also discussing whether there is room for legislation even if it is compared with GDPR. If necessary, we may need to develop laws for such parts, but in any case, I think we can create a mechanism to make information available in Japanese legislation. In Europe, as for the provision of BtoG information, legislation is being developed in the Data Law, not only in personal data, so I think it would be better if we could consider a framework in which information can be used from the government side, referring to the contents discussed in such places, and proceed with the database in tandem with the law side.

That's all.

Secretariat (Suga): Finally, I would like to have a comment from CTO Fujimoto.

CTO Fujimoto: I think the Execution will be very important in the future. One year has passed in Digital Agency, and people get angry when I say that organization is starting to get better little by little. But now, from around July, it is planned to take the project cross-sectionally into what it should be like. I am working on that. It is very important to be able to coordinate what will become a common language in Digital Agency as a whole, and what will eventually be spoken in this language by all ministries and agencies, and what will be played. It is very important to be able to use these things well, and to look at the system from left to right, and to work in the best way for users. We have finally started to move from around July, and implementation is the next step. It will take time to do all of this, but I would like to proceed one by one, and I would like to report on it from time to time. I look forward to working with you in the future.

That's all.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

However, I was shown a picture with a feeling that I was glad to have lived a long life.

Kashida Data Analyst: Thank you very much. I will do my best.

Vice Chairman Annen: I was shown a picture that was too big, but even so, it was the only one I could find. It seems that we will be talking about how to imprint this. Thank you very much.

Finally, I would like to ask for a few words from the Senior Vice-Minister, including your thoughts.

Chairman Okushi: Thank you very much for your active remarks on a wide range of themes today.

First, I talked about media in floppy disk, and then I heard about regulation, written notice regulation, In-person Courses regulation, and other related ministries and agencies, and various Issue have come into view. Finally, I heard about digital completion in public service, which was very easy to understand and interesting. I think I was able to share good information in a good sense.

Based on the opinions received today, we would like to consider our future response at the Secretariat, so we would appreciate your continued cooperation.

Thank you for your time today.

Vice Chairman Annen: .

Now, the Secretariat will explain about the holding of the next Working Group.

Office (Osawa): This is Office.

As for the details of the next working group meeting, the Secretariat will contact you later.

With regard to today's proceedings, I believe there is nothing that is not suitable for disclosure, so we would like to prepare the minutes later and disclose them after confirming them with the members.

In addition, if you do not have any particular objection to today's materials, I would like to disclose all of them on the Digital Rincho website.

That's all from the office.

Vice Chairman Annen: Thank you very much for your open discussion.

This concludes our 13th meeting. Thank you very much, everyone.