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Fifth workshop on the "Mobility Roadmap"

Last Updated:

Overview

  • Date and Time: Monday, July 24, 2023, from 10:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.
  • Place: Kioi Conference Seminar Room A, 4th floor, Tokyo Garden Terrace Kioi-cho (used online)
  • Agenda:
    1. Opening
    2. Presentations and discussions
      • "Re-Design and smart mobility of Local Transportation" (Professor Nakamura, University of Tokyo)
      • "Visualization of the state of use of national roads (expressways, national highways, prefectural roads, and municipal roads) - A consideration of how to promote the concrete development of road use data -" (Member Yamamoto)
      • "Efforts by Ministries and Agencies" (Cabinet Office, National Police Agency, Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, MLIT)
    3. Closing

Meeting video

The meeting is available on YouTube (Digital Agency's official channel).

Material

Minutes

Director Asayama: Good morning. Now that the time has come, I would like to hold the fifth "Study Group on the Ideal' Mobility Roadmap'" from now on.

Please note that the Study Group is live streaming, and that the recordings will be published on the Digital Agency website after the meeting.

First of all, I would like to say a few words from Mr. Murakami in Director-General. Thank you.

Murakami Director-General: Thank you very much for the open discussion last time.

Today, I would like to thank the two experts for their explanations on the concept of regional public transport, the visualization of the usage of roads nationwide, and other topics. At the same time, I would like to thank each ministry for their cooperation and for making time for me today.

Once again, the "Mobility Roadmap," which will lead to the future, is not a review meeting of the Digital Transformation Agency, but rather a process in which everything that must be considered together with each ministry, including what each ministry is considering, is included in the roadmap, and it will be firmly raised to a Cabinet decision. In that sense, I understand that what each ministry is doing itself should be included in the roadmap. In this context, the aim is to deepen mutual understanding through such opportunities, and if there is any coordination of priorities or issues that each ministry is not aware of, the aim is to actively coordinate them. Today, I will first receive a brief report from each ministry, focusing on what is being discussed. I hope that I will be able to study well.

Thank you all for your continued support today.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Next, I would like to briefly introduce myself.

Thank you very much in this really hot weather. Today, as Mr. Murakami has just mentioned, there will be presentations from the two experts, as well as presentations from each department that I really want you to work with. My most important role is Time Key Pink, so I would like to ask you to make your presentation as concise as possible and ask questions as concise as possible. Today, I am planning a long presentation until 12:30, but I have given up on it because I am afraid that it will not be settled, so I hope you will keep in mind that there is a possibility of an extension, and if it is not possible, it is natural that you will leave at 12:30, so please take care of it.

Finally, I would like to create a good roadmap that can truly serve as a control tower or a lighthouse for the future of Japan, together with experts and people in charge from each ministry. As an occasion, I would like to have proper discussions at this study group and the mobility working that follows it. This is a more important request, but I would like to ask for your cooperation, and although it is a little long, I would like to make an address.

First, Mr. Nakamura, a specially appointed professor at the University of Tokyo, will give a presentation.

Nakamura-san: . Thank you for your kind introduction. I'm Mr. Nakamura from the University of Tokyo.

Once again, thank you very much for calling today. You have quite a few at hand right now, but the presentation will be exactly 15 minutes, and I will pick up from them and do it.

Please see the self-introduction later.

I am currently in the third phase of SIP, and I am working under Dr. Ishida.

When I talk about urban transportation, there are some slides that I use at the beginning of my lectures for the general public. For example, this is Dallas a long time ago, and all of its light blue, purple and green are parking lots. Is it OK to make this kind of city? This is one of the issues that I am aware of.

The Isogo Ward area of Japan National Route 16 is under the direct control of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. For various reasons, I do not blame anyone, but in reality, there are few places with sidewalks in the first place, and even if there are, there are still many places where it is very difficult.

Similarly, I have been in Yokohama for a long time, so I have a lot of data on Yokohama. For example, if you look at the average number of trips in Yokohama by age group and gender, and compare them by whether or not they have a car they can use, those who have a car they can use go out more often on average. If they don't have a car, they go out less often. This is because if you give up your car somewhere, you go out less often, especially for women over 75 years old, but such data can be gathered quickly.

Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about leaving the railways, but we are doing it with the intention of leaving the region and using autonomous driving as a means. What lies ahead is being able to go out, being able to stay healthy, having a busy city, and we are always discussing how each person can subjectively enjoy happiness.

In traffic planning, we talk about economics and other various things, and we do a lot of research on traffic demand. Basically, we call it derivative demand or primary demand. We go out or move because there is some activity. This is derivative demand. For example, if you like the train or the scenery where it is moving, the purpose is to move. There are various kinds of derivative demand, and there are some that have a strong sense of obligation and some that are not. There are jobs that you are very reluctant to go to, and jobs that you are very excited about, as is the case today. When we divide them like this, where should we support? Where should we support, including walking and going out? There are many jobs that we have to endure, whether it is public transportation or other transportation devices in the future, but I think it is this green part that we will support more.

Under such circumstances, I am also involved in the construction of smart mobility platforms, but I have a little bit of an idea about this word, and I remember that when I was young, I did not always use the word mobility to mean moving objects. In reality, for example, if I say moving objects, mobility management will be interpreted as managing moving objects, which is a bit of a problem. What if mobility management means reviewing the way people think and act about moving? Regarding MaaS, if this mobility is translated as moving objects, it will be translated as moving objects as one service, which is also a bit inconvenient.

So, on the other hand, if we bundle various services together and provide them like a single mobile body, the definition is a mobile body or ease of movement. Smart is a smart city, and now I belong to the Smart City Design Research and Social Collaboration Course, and I am doing education for working people in smart cities and so on, and I am learning about it every day, but there is a lot of history, and various teachers are saying it, and in my mind, there are three left, and one of them is naturally "smart," but when I divide them, one is when I say that the goal is smart.

Also, the way of doing things is smart. This can be digital, computer, or artificial intelligence, but I also like the framework of the way of thinking, this person is smart, he connects this story and this story, he understands beyond this, I like the smartness of this, it's like a cross-cutting, cross-disciplinary, diverse point of view. If you think about it in this way, the term smart mobility can be used to refer to environmentally friendly, the latest technology, the way of thinking to connect various aspects, and information services for that purpose.

As social issues change and technologies advance, one is sharing, on-demand, MaaS, autonomous driving, drones, and so on, and the other is coming out of data science in the realization process. On the right, I don't have time to talk about it at all today, but we have data, and if we look at ChatGPT or Stable Diffusion now, they may come up with various ideas, but we need people to compare and discuss them, and in that sense, they support Visionig. Also, the necessary predictions will continue to advance in terms of making predictions. What we will use it for is, when we have to choose several policy options, we will evaluate them in advance, or we will try them on a trial basis, or we will try them with agile, and when we have made a little progress and we want to look back a little, we will be able to look back with various kinds of unprecedented data. Validation, which includes such a meaning, when we are students or when we are teaching at universities as teachers, we will go a little further than the frame of the textbook on urban transportation planning.

By the way, as for sharing, this is in Paris, but I like the way the roads are switched and the sidewalks are kept. However, if we look at some of the cases, what do you think about the case where the behavior has changed from using public transportation? Or, what do you think about the case where the cost has increased due to repairs and abandonment? Also, if there is an increase in road congestion and accidents due to poor tuning, what do you think about the impact? This is all a new business and it is a startup, so please do it there, it is not good, it should not happen.

In terms of autonomous driving, I am very embarrassed here, but in my opinion, commercial vehicles and small cars in particular run on their own. The smallest one goes until the suitcase moves on its own, but the technology is advanced, including such things. I have been to Sakaimachi several times, and I think it is very wonderful. However, I think there are some discussions about the fact that the average number of passengers is only one. However, at this point, I don't think it is right at all to evaluate everything and make a decision, so what will we do with the town by taking advantage of this? It is different in the back, but there are still some route buses left, and we are having a hard time adjusting things. Everyone is friendly, but it takes a lot of time and effort to adjust things. We are building a lot of facilities on a one off basis, but what will we do with them as a town? There are still problems to be solved. Considering these things, there are still many opportunities ahead. There is no doubt that this bus was the catalyst for that opportunity, but my understanding is that it does not mean that we are already at the finish line now that we have run.

In terms of MaaS, I have received a lot of help from you. In the blue square on the right, I write that it saves time and solves problems, but when I actually look at it, I think that I have to go further into regional issues, that I want the egoism of business operators to be a little more restrained, that although the Japanese language is difficult, I can't see too much that disabled people and people who have difficulty moving are being put off, that I can evaluate the Yamanote Line this morning after the fact, but I am worried that information will not be available at all in an emergency, that in each region, if the experiment goes well, I should not be satisfied with the launch and end it, or that in Japan, transportation services are provided by private companies in various forms, and there are many good points in this, and there are many people who have been trained and strengthened through their history, but I still sometimes wonder which areas should be promoted in a competitive manner and which areas should be kept out of competition. I think I know how to sort things out, and I am still wondering.

In addition, while studying MaaS, I feel that it is still necessary to sort out where originality is produced, where it is used together, and what it is for, including specific vehicle standards, station standards, and bus stop standards.

Li Design of Regional Transport happened to be appointed as the chairman of the Regional Transport Subcommittee of the Transport Policy Council from 2019 until last spring, so I studied a lot. My understanding is that there are various activities in the region, and there is transportation to support them. A part of them is called public transportation, and in the current way of speaking of the country, there are leaves, branches and trunks, and there are railways and buses in the trunk part.

First of all, there are things that are said to be natural around here, but what should we do in order to advance concrete measures that we can work together on? At present, it has been connected to quite specific measures. However, this cannot be done only here. Where and how should we do it in order to really connect with various regional issues? The general discussion is quite good. But as a detailed discussion, for example, what can we do on the transportation side to make high school students more energetic and cheerful? Are they stations, train schedules, or fares? What should we do with fares? When it comes to this, it becomes quite concrete. But, I think we have to go that far. When I first understood re-design, I thought it was a variety of things to rebuild this part concretely.

Also, when I speak of Public-Private Partnership, the tone of the government differs considerably depending on whether it is a local government, a prefecture, or the national government. There are various policy fields, and of course, next to them is the field of transportation. When it comes to transportation, there are transportation by transport administration, transportation by traffic management, and transportation by road management. Today, the Cabinet Office and each Ministry are present, and it is a matter of course that they should be properly connected, but I must reiterate this point.

In the private sector, there are not only transport companies but also vendors, and there are many private companies in related fields, as well as local residents. I think we are in this area, but I think there are many issues to be addressed, such as what we should do together, how we should do it, and where exactly we should start.

In terms of public transportation, I always use these words, and I only look at it from the perspective of people. First, they can choose how they want to travel. And they don't think it's inconvenient to travel. These are the top two. And, I will omit the explanation, but there are some places where I don't think it's good that everything is on demand and in front of my house, so there will always be stations and bus stops. I can walk there. And whether it's 5 buses a day or 20 buses a day, even if it rains or if it gets delayed, I will bring them to a place where they can be trusted, including in such situations. And waiting or moving itself should not be painful. I am saying that it is important to take the policy order with this in mind, especially for planners.

Instead of fighting among bus companies, there may be times when they fight with public transportation and private cars, but now, depending on the region, I think they will also team up there and pull out people who don't go out, including those who pay for private cars.

Also, I often discuss about changing the mode of transportation. Technically, I call it the "choice group" in the middle, but there are various definitions. To give an easy-to-understand example, let's look at the ratio of the number of times a person drives his or her own car out of about 1,000 trips a year. At that time, there are various people. Some people drive a car only during the Bon festival and New Year holidays, and others drive a car most of the time and sometimes drive public transportation. In terms of policy, I often say that for these people in the choice group, the frequency of car use should be reduced every year.

On the other hand, in some cases, there is a necessity to go out by car, so it doesn't matter. However, there is also the idea of creating more and more fun things and increasing the number of these things. I will not discuss whether it is good or bad today, but I think it will be necessary to discuss which one we are aiming at, or which one we are aiming at in what way.

From the point of view of the people who want to use it, is there a proper specification and is it properly communicated? Is there a variety of forms of cooperation, including monetization when it is created, and is it properly connected for the people who want to use it? Is the information reaching the people in need? For example, there was an actual case in my job a long time ago. Even if I put a sign in the bus saying that I should switch from using a car, I can't do it because I'm on the bus. If you say that you should refrain from using a car, I have to tell the users of the car, but unexpectedly, I haven't been able to do that.

I think there has been a lot of discussion on the supply side, so I will omit it from today's discussion. When money is circulated, it is easy to understand if it is referred to as subsidies, but if it is said that the region will change due to it, I would like to propose a view of regional investment a little earlier.

Also, in Curitiba, a town in Brazil that I like very much, the division of roles between the public and private sectors in planning, management, and operations is gradually shifting, and in the first base of planning, there is a form in which the government can take responsibility, and I think such discussions will advance further in the digital age.

Towards the future, I would like to move on to the last part. I would like to re-establish targets and evolve various experiences. Although I skipped today, I would like to define the scope of public transportation in a different dimension from the transportation business, including the sharing cycle, and create mobility. In such a situation, I think it is necessary to discuss value creation, new technologies, and how to manage areas in a cyclic manner in cities. First of all, safety is necessary, but various values are also necessary. Then, as I said at the beginning, in order to properly conduct verification and visioning, more and more data are necessary and must be used. I am not particular about quarters, but I think it is necessary to have a mechanism to monitor based on it.

That's all. Thank you very much.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Then I'd like to have a discussion with you. Anyone is fine. What do you think? Go ahead, Mr. Hidaka.

Hidaka: MaaS Tech Japan.

Mr. Nakamura, thank you for talking to me.

How do you view mobility? It is not a vehicle. You mentioned earlier that although sharing is convenient, there may be a decrease in public transportation, and there may be negative social aspects to maintaining it. I believe that each mobility has various properties, such as being fast, able to ride a lot, cheap or expensive, and flexible. How should mobility be defined when it is further expanded to the outside?

I am originally from the railway industry, so I think there will be something like this in the railway industry, but I also think it is necessary to think about many things, such as what aspects taxis have, whether the number of drivers will increase or decrease in the future, and how many ordinary drivers have potential in Japan in terms of self-help and mutual assistance. When thinking about how to collect such data digitally in the future, whether to define it, and how to make judgments based on it, how to evaluate indicators in terms of mobility, whether there is such a scheme, or whether it is necessary to create one in the future, if you have any thoughts.

For example, accidents per kilometer have been reported, and it is quite difficult to figure out how to achieve this through all types of mobility. In terms of which mobility to implement in which regions and how to implement it, we need expertise and a bird' s-eye view. It is quite difficult, but when I think that this roadmap will be a challenge, I would like to know if you have any suggestions on how to proceed with it. It may be about Architecture, and it may be in the area of Mr. Izumi or Mr. Saito, but I would like to hear your opinions so that we can discuss it.

Nakamura-san: .

Regarding the points you pointed out, I regret that I have to prepare easy-to-understand slide materials, but I would like to say a few things.

One is, in a world where the definition of words and the definition of laws are very complicated, and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism is here, so if you are wrong, please let me know right away. For example, when we say taxi, when we say taxi as a type of vehicle, we say less than 10 people. And when we say what kind of service is provided, we say riding. Therefore, it is difficult to explain the Japanese word Noriai taxi to foreigners, but when a taxi company provides a license for sharing a taxi with a vehicle of the size of a taxi, it is called Noriai taxi. Even if there is a bus stop and a schedule, it is called Noriai taxi as long as there is a schedule. We first check the sorting there, and of course we sometimes review it. This is one thing.

On top of that, the on-demand service that I am talking about right now started around the 1970s, and since then there have been several waves when research has flourished. It was around the time I was in Yokohama, and there was a mountain of demand in 1995 and' 06. At that time, there were various forms of demand, and the ultimate solution was to sort out between taxis and buses.

On the other hand, as Mr. Hidaka just mentioned, what kind of indicators are good when we compare them side by side? I think the example you just mentioned is safety, but in general, there are convenience and reliability, but it is quite complicated to define each of these. However, I think that the time when data was not available or business operators did not provide data is passing, so we can do it side by side.

For example, even if you get one punctuality, you can just follow the timetable. I will say it without proper nouns because it is a flowing example, but there is a place where a certain bus company has a very high punctuality and a certain bus company has a low punctuality. When we investigate what the problem is with the lower one, the original timetable setting is very tight, and it is difficult to keep the timetable unless you run very hard. As a bus, it is actually fast. However, if you look at it from the timetable of the bus stop on the way, it is off. What do you think of this?

In other words, if the timetable is made slowly and the time is adjusted in the middle, the punctuality will increase. Going that far, how the timetable is made, how the operation is, whether it is the road situation or other situation that is a hindrance in the middle, whether it is the road structure or traffic management, these are the stages that can be seen in the data now.

At this point, the logic of punctuality and, beyond that, reliability is much more visible than it was in the days when researchers measured it on their own. As the volume increases, statistical processing becomes possible. I think we need to crush them one by one like this.

Then, as you can see on the far right of this figure, there are services where you borrow equipment to operate, services where someone else is involved to operate the service, and services where it is mechanized. This is one story.

Especially in urban areas, where road space is limited, it is necessary to make certain decisions and prioritize them. It can change depending on the location and time of day. This management is quite difficult, but I believe that Japan is a country that has done a lot of things in the past. So, if we take that knowledge back to the next level, how to use the roadways and the curves of the roadways and sidewalks, how to use them, there is not much data here either, and there are signs that need to be replaced and other things when managing them, who is responsible for what, this can change if the current way of operation using past data and signage and the evaluation after that change. In that case, I think there is another axis of what to do in the limited road space. I just felt that I have to study these things when I heard Mr. Hidaka's comment.

That's all.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Saito-san, please.

Member SAITO: Digital Lifeline National Comprehensive Development Plan, we are talking about using self-driving cars to deal with people's flow and distribution crises and man-made disasters. At that time, if we assume what will happen to the world of distribution and people's flow when self-driving cars come out, there is one story that infrastructure like railways like the Yamanote line will become utility. That said, it is not one company, but multiple companies that exist there and provide various services with assets, so-called transportation services.

However, in reality, for example, when we try to take measures for people's flow, distribution, and man-made disasters, there are users and the demand side, and if we don't properly grasp the needs there, we can't decide how to arrange the various utility infrastructures that I mentioned earlier. Therefore, the competition on the residents' side that I mentioned earlier is, if anything, to catch the needs of users and the needs of demand, and how to operate utilities in response to them.

While the government is planning such things, it is also planning for the future. The basis of the operation itself is, as you mentioned earlier, a public institution, but it is first entrusted to such a place, and finally it is entrusted to the private sector. Such a story is just a normal utility infrastructure story.

However, when I talk about private cars, the world changes. There are things like so-called entertainment and the world of your own hobbies. If you try to add such things, it becomes quite complicated. If you really try to do it, you have to understand where you want to go, and I feel that it does not end with just profiling your life. In the previous talk, I myself have a question mark about how far I should capture personal information. In addition to public transportation, there are private cars, and there is a place where I want to go. In normal life, so-called regular commuting, in business, in education, in medical care, etc., when I profile them, I feel that it will be decided to create a utility infrastructure as public transportation. However, I think that the world of hobbies is quite difficult. I will ask you how you think about it.

Nakamura-san: .

Basically, I think it's good to have freedom of movement, so I don't mean to say that I can't go anywhere if I want to go by my own car, and I use it myself. However, in a place where there are restrictions in terms of time and space, something else riding on it can cause external diseconomies, so in that case, I often say that we use pricing in theory. For example, in Singapore or London, it's fine, but if you want to go by car in a crowded place, you pay a burden accordingly, and if you still want to go by car, you go. Or beyond that, in some cities such as France, it's actually the case, but the administration controls the parking fee in the central urban area, and although it's cheap for a short time, it doesn't say not to use it for commuting, but it sends a message that if you use it for commuting, please pay. It means that we put pricing in there.

If that does not work out in time, the situation may be limited, but there may be cases where cars do not enter Oze, so various things are possible, and in such cases, control under an agreement is absolutely necessary.

Therefore, it is impossible and unrealistic to have to control all the individual demand for cars. However, the broad idea is that it is necessary to adjust the pricing along with physical control so that the priority order changes on a case-by-case basis.

Member SAITO: In other words, I have an image that, in general, when we profile, we can talk about how to optimize various ways of moving in the living space, but when we leave individual freedom to others, we can manage it somehow by using so-called demand-side management, which is a way of controlling demand in the world of electric power.

Nakamura-san: , or rather, I think we have to do it.

Member SAITO: I see. Thank you very much.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, , anything else?

With regard to Mr. Hidaka's definition, I don't think there are any people who can properly explain the difference between high-standard highways, high-standard roads, A' roads, A roads and B roads, or regional high-standard roads.

As for the examples I know, the Land Readjustment Law and the Urban Redevelopment Law, which are very important methods for town planning, are added by smart people in government offices each time, depending on the needs at that time. As in the case of the automobile I mentioned earlier, it is difficult to understand from a later point of view. In such a situation, transparency is lost. In particular, as in the case of land readjustment, ordinary landowners have a feeling that they are being cheated. I think we need to think about sorting out such things more properly.

I think it is important to re-organize what has been accumulated as a result, but I also think it is important to jump a bit further and think about it without being bound by the current definition. I thought that digital and Architecture would not be effective in the real sense unless we go into those areas. That is one thing.

Also, regarding the current automobile, in the area of sharing, space sharing refers to the sharing of space inside a vehicle in ride-sharing, but when we think more about mobility, I think it is important to think about how to share public spaces, especially roads and towns.

To put it bluntly, I think there are only two kinds of roads. One is a road where cars don't have to hesitate. The ultimate form is a circuit. I think there are only two kinds of roads in ordinary cities, where cars also have to ask various people to refrain. I think it is very important to build such a road in cooperation with various people. Can such an idea be included in the sharing system?

Nakamura-san: .

Since this document is about sharing services, what you are pointing out is not included directly. In fact, there are some examples such as what to do with the stations. What you have just mentioned is rather on the side of the road where cars are not allowed. In addition to what to do with cars and pedestrians, including bicycles, electric kick scooter, and various other things when they come out. On the other hand, when it comes to cities and road spaces, I think it is a big challenge to share the space wisely for things that are related to movement on the road, such as street trees and planting on one side and what to do with the space for things that are just buried underground on the other side. There are several things that will come out.

Depending on the time of day, there are of course various things that appear, but how to use them and how to use them is meaningful to the users and roadside who should be given the highest priority at that time of day. How can it be done technically? In the first place, the meaning of how to think based on that must be shared separately.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, That's right. I mentioned cars earlier, but it's not just cars that hold back. It's beautiful that people in the space are attracted to each other and hold back in their own way, but I don't know what to do.
Thank you.

What do you think?

Acting Member Akimoto: I am Akimoto from the Japanese Unmanned Aircraft Operation Management Consortium.

Thank you very much for your lecture,. I studied it including the concept of smart mobility.

I believe that it will be necessary in the future to use various types of mobility on a daily basis, to select mobility that suits each user, and to optimize such mobility using data in the future. Looking at the reality, I once told a certain automobile company a lot of things. They said "Fun to Drive," but in fact, when I drive, I find myself in a parking lot, and it doesn't move. These places are getting more and more crowded. From the perspective of saving energy and not emitting CO2 through smart mobility, for example, during the year-end and New Year holidays and consecutive holidays, when everyone drives or moves, there is a traffic jam and a parking lot. How can this situation be solved? I think it will be fragmentary, but I would like to know what kind of solutions are available.

That's all.

Nakamura-san: .

Basically, the logic is that if demand and supply are balanced, it will be crowded. Demand means that everyone wants to go here and drive here. Supply means how much processing capacity the roads have. Even if the processing capacity is increased, the traffic congestion will be relieved considerably. Even if the demand is reduced, the traffic congestion will be relieved. This processing capacity is difficult when we look at it in detail. For example, the reason why the roads do not move at all was, for a while, Odawara and Atami. There are several right turns to souvenir shops, and if they are eliminated, it will flow. When you are in a traffic jam, there are so many cars that you think there is nothing you can do about it. However, in reality, being in a certain time section and flowing on the time axis are different concepts. You can flow, and if you do so, it will change by solving the bottleneck.

I believe that there are two specific problems in the areas you just mentioned. We can still devise ways to manage roads, and there is a possibility that we can ease the situation by improving intersections and creating lanes.

On the other hand, JH and others have already issued congestion forecasts to some extent, but in the future, if we use more and more data and let artificial intelligence calculate it, the accuracy will improve. At this time of the day, unless it rains suddenly, it will be this crowded, and you will need this much time. Even so, please decide by yourself whether to go there or not. Next time, if souvenir shops and others can earn money by leveling the overall demand peak a little, it will be necessary to move their behavior by preparing set menus with a little discount at places like this, and I think they can still do it.

In any case, we are living in an age where we can obtain a variety of data, and our dreams are expanding. However, in fact, there are many restrictions and it is difficult to do so, but I think that the state of many roads in Japan is that there is still a possibility of demand adjustment and also a possibility of devising supply capacity.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Kawabata, please come in.

Kawabata: I learned a lot from your careful presentation. Thank you very much.

Considering that the current situation is very well organized, and creating new peripheral services for the future, as Professor Ishida mentioned earlier, I believe that we can do things like increasing the number and density of people. In terms of just changing human behavior, if I don't do it now, I probably have a reason not to do it, and if I do that, I will create peripheral services that are lacking there. For example, if I think I should stop going there at that time, but I stop going there but it is still inconvenient, I will choose an alternative service if there is one.

So, in addition to what you have organized this time, by creating new peripheral services, not only by people but also by increasing the ability or density of various transportation, I think we will be able to do what we cannot do at present.

In the case of machines, there are things like traffic conditions and maintenance. In the case of humans, I think there are things like fatigue and work styles. If we could think about things like future behavior and what we want to do based on the information we have now, we could change the future.

It's fluffy, but rather than just analyzing the current situation, in addition to that, I thought it would be important to consider what services are missing, what services should be, and peripheral services.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, I think Japan is getting much better at this. One is the experience with pricing at the time of the Tokyo Olympics. Right now construction is under way on the Daishi Bridge of the Metropolitan Expressway and the Haneda Line. Construction on the bridges of the Matsubara Line at Osaka Metropolitan Expressway will stop for about three years. The Metropolitan Expressway will not stop for that long, though. However, the traffic impact of this is not as bad as I thought, as both Tokyo Metropolitan Expressway and Osaka Metropolitan Expressway have made many appeals in advance.

For example, we are about to conduct a pricing experiment at Aqualine. We are already collecting data from these areas, and the number of options for how to use this data is increasing. Unfortunately, there are only Tokyo, Osaka, and a few cities in Fukuoka, and each region has its own problems. However, we do not have much knowledge about how to spread this technology to these areas, including the cost and human resources. I think this is important from now on.

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Mr. Koda, please.

Member Koda: Thank you . I'm sorry to bother you online today. I'm Koda from AsMama Co., Ltd.

Thank you very much for sharing the very valuable material. I saw it with great interest.

From my side, I have half an opinion or half a question. For example, trains and airplanes, private cars and public cars, etc., the part that leads to a rich life from the perspective of the residents by having an appropriate balance and free choice is a co-creation of co-creation.

On the other hand, in a declining population, for example, there is competition among regions and between the private sector and the public sector. From the residents' point of view, there are areas where prices are appropriate because there is competition. When considering the private sector and the public sector, a new private sector cannot enter the private sector due to vested interests. Or a new private sector works hard and the public sector cannot be maintained. I think there are two sides to this. I would like to ask what you think about those aspects.

Nakamura-san: .

When I was chairman of the club in 2019, I first encountered the Okayama city problem, and I learned a lot from it. When more than one private sector competes with each other for a service, the quality of the service goes up when the residents choose the service. For example, if it's a competition between one bottled tea and another, you can always choose.

However, in many cases, there are situations in which local public transport is competitive even though it is impossible to choose. Or it is quite difficult to choose. Moreover, as you said, the population is not increasing at all, the economy is not growing upward, and the overall demand tends to shrink. Competing to capture it is a battle to somehow break down the shrinking pie. In such a situation, whether the overall population decline can be suppressed first of all. Then, we have to increase the travel pie. We have to compete together. We compete in an environment where we can compete when it has stabilized to some extent and when other conditions are met.

I think taxis are willing to do that, but I'm rather timid, so I'm waiting at the station and can't choose a taxi. When I asked the taxi association, they said I could choose one, but even if I wanted to take a taxi three cars later, I couldn't. If you want to do it, it's more logical to make it selectable like the current app, and it's strange to create a situation where you can't choose and make a choice. On the other hand, if you want to do it in a way that you don't have to choose, it's better to do it together.

It will be detailed, but I think we are looking at it in the city, and I think it is a situation where we need to organize this by scene. In many cases where the population is decreasing, I think it is not the time to promote co-creation in the direction of increasing the total while welcoming new services.

Did you get the answer?

Member Koda: Thank you .

I, too, have high expectations that the emergence of new private sectors will support the lives of vulnerable road users in a declining population. Thank you very much for your valuable opinions.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Nakamura, thank you very much.

Since time is running out, I would like to leave Mr. Nakamura's presentation for now. Next, Mr. Yamamoto from ITS Japan, please.

Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the ITS Japan.

I would like to talk about the visualization of road usage, which is a somewhat specific topic, but this topic comes up in various places, including today. I also made a statement in the second meeting, but I would like to introduce the details to everyone and use it as a topic for discussion.

Before I get into the content, let me briefly introduce ITS Japan.

ITS Japan is an organization that works under the guidance of teachers from private companies and universities. We will gather at the company with the logo on the upper right.

Another topic is that the chairman was changed last month. I am currently an executive at Toyota, and I think I have gained an advantage in developing various measures.

On the left is our position. As a liaison in the private sector, we are engaged in various industry-government-university collaboration activities under the guidance of academic professors and government officials.

Internationally, there are three regions on the right, North America, Europe, and Asia. As a member of Asia and a leader in Asia, we hold the ITS World Congress every year.

It is a structure in ITS Japan.

The yellow part is our team. Each team is considering themes such as safety, security, comfortable mobility, environmental load reduction, and disaster resilience. At the same time, as Dr. Nakamura mentioned earlier, we are also looking at how we can develop various measures to increase valuable leads.

Although the introduction is long, I will talk about the visualization of the utilization situation of roads nationwide.

With regard to the recognition of issues, there have been a lot of discussions. Mobility is diversifying, and the transportation and ITS infrastructure must change accordingly. However, if we do not know when, where, how and how the mobility and transportation infrastructure are used, we cannot take effective and efficient measures, nor can we review them. I think that means we cannot do the verification and visioning that Mr. Nakamura is talking about.

The second point is, as Director-General Murakami mentioned before or two before, various types of movement information are currently being used by everyone, but if each person accesses various types of movement information under each type of movement information, there will be a very chaotic situation. There will be waste in society as a whole. For this reason, as shown in the red box below, it will be necessary to thoroughly grasp the information used by everyone throughout Japan and develop a system that can be shared as common data.

In addition, I believe that it is necessary to create opportunities to share the common issues that have emerged in the process of actually planning and implementing various initiatives.

This is the first one from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry. In the National Comprehensive Plan for the Development of Digital Lifelines, a data-linked infrastructure has been incorporated. On the lower left, ITS Japan is also considering various things around here, and I think that a future transportation infrastructure that matches the digital age is necessary.

This is the punch picture of our idea. On the left, the environment that supports the digital age, in a word, it is now. Anyway, in-vehicle equipment and sensors have already been installed quite a lot, and the network has been established, and data that has been uploaded to the cloud can be processed for quite a lot of things. Now, we have this environment, so there is no way not to use it.

On the right-hand side, we need to understand how the users are moving and think about how they will use it. On the lower side, what kind of roads are there, what kind of travel spaces are there, and how to maintain them will be very important from now on.

The following is a simple punch picture of how people / things move, by what means, and in what space.

The important thing here, as I said in the opening theme, is the information on the use of roads. As you can see from the red line, as Professor Ishida mentioned earlier, roads are mixed. Various people use them, so we have to manage them well. Right now, the total length of roads in Japan is more than 1.2 million kilometers, I think. Air, rail and sea routes are about tens of thousands of kilometers. There are many people who use them, and the burden of maintaining roads is increasing due to their age. In addition, the use of RSU infrastructure for autonomous driving is increasing, so I think we need to develop information on the use of roads from the perspective of roads and infrastructure.

In terms of measures, as Professor Saito mentioned earlier, the road usage information is about how people and mobility are moving. The Murakami Director-General has been mentioned twice, but this is so-called demand information. I don't think we can do anything without it. The National Comprehensive Plan for the Development of Digital Lifelines also mentions from point to line to plane, from demonstration to implementation. Where and in what order we should start, and the Subcommittee on Roads of the Council for Social Infrastructure Development summarized it in March, but this also incorporates the need for data.

Various organizations and companies are also conducting various studies. For example, in ITS Japan, a carbon-neutral team will promote behavior change, transportation will be diversified, and a disaster resilience team will advance probe information during and before a disaster.

Recently, as has already been reported by the media and others, road flooding and snowfall have made it difficult to pass through, and there have been victims. I believe that there is no time to wait to figure out where we should take action as soon as possible.

I picked up a few of the utilization measures and services of road use information.

The first thing I can think of is traffic safety. Using ETC2.0, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism is taking measures to ensure the safety of community roads. Also, disaster response, environmental and efficient MaaS, I think this area can also be used.

Also, what I would like to emphasize is that we are now in an age where decisions on new construction of roads and bridges, as well as road repair points, can be taken from probe information.

The rest is evidence of various types of deregulation. There are various laws that are uniformly included throughout Japan, but there are many laws that say that if you really drive a car in a rural area, you won't need it here. If there is solid evidence in such places, various types of deregulation can be implemented not uniformly but partially.

The gasoline tax will decrease in the future, but what will be the alternative source of revenue? This is a touchy story, so I won't say more, but I think we definitely need road usage information.

Then, how to proceed with road usage data, in a word, using data from the infrastructure on the upper right, plus probe information.

We are considering two categories. The first category is data development, which is the basis for PDCA, and the second category is real-time data development.

Examples of maintenance data include various kinds of data, but basically, location data, cars, cars, senior cars, electric scooters, robots, and pedestrians, I think we have to include pedestrians, and as long as we have location data on how these people are moving, we can use it quite a lot. Plus, if we have data from InCar in red, it will be much more valuable. Information from InCar is control data of cars, for example, when the engine is started, when the accelerator is blown, when the brake is pressed, when the wiper is moved, when a side slip occurs like ABS and TRC, we can do a lot of things just by having such data.

We talked about personal information earlier, but if we use statistical summary data, it will be a bit bad if there is only one person running in the countryside, but basically we can avoid such a place.

Then, this is a diagram that shows how this road use data should be positioned from an overall perspective.

At the bottom, there are information sources and information sources. There are moving information that each company has, but they are already separated here. A common interface is set up in there, and what items are shared by everyone is created, and it is passed to various platforms and application systems above. API linkage is done between platforms, and the information you use is arranged in red boxes.

At this point, I think it is important to thoroughly organize information groups in the world of mobility as well. Professor Koshizuka was talking about chaos, but in order to prevent chaos, the MaaS in the usage information on the lower left will be done with the MaaS information groups, and the static and quasi-static ones on the upper left will be different. By organizing in this way, I don't want to say Architecture, but I think it is important to thoroughly organize the overall picture.

If I may add a little, the road usage data in the middle should be developed in a centralized cooperative area. That's because we can guarantee the positive efficiency and quality that everyone uses, and if we go here, we can get good data in common.

So far, I have been talking about road use data. There are various issues that need to be addressed in order to promote road use data. I would like to organize the data a little and discuss it with everyone. I have taken an excerpt from Professor Koshizuka's material. After this arrow in blue, this is not the opinion of ITS Japan as a whole, but I am trying to organize the data in such a way as to resolve the discussion. I am from the private sector, so I am organizing the data from the perspective of the private sector.

First of all, you mentioned a top-down approach or a bottom-up approach. In the top-down, mobility working, and mobility roadmap, a guideline to collect such data and a common policy on the overall picture will be established. According to that, specific projects will be promoted with awareness of each use case.

Next, regarding the relationship between infrastructure and utilization, Professor Koshizuka also said that it would be correct to "proceed at the same time," and I agree. I worked in the private sector for about three years. When building a platform, it is necessary to create two or three killer services for data utilization services and use the specific data to build a platform infrastructure, otherwise it will be a general discussion. So, while doing that, there are other services that can be used, so I think it is necessary to take a hybrid approach to collect data on these services.

Next, regarding the division of roles in the cooperative domain, the question of who will take the leadership, whether it will be the government or industry, will also be promoted through co-creation. As I mentioned earlier, it is an overall policy and a major Architecture for the whole, and it is ideal that this is created by the Cabinet Office and Ministries' "Mobility Roadmap" and others, and that the private sector will play a role under public support.

We can't avoid talking about the cost. I think the basic policy is to use the road for a fee on the data utilization side. However, I think there is a possibility of a partial deduction. The road utilization data is data on roads. Roads are now built with public assistance. According to my check, we use 6.8 trillion yen a year. Even if we use 0.% or more of it, we can get money out of it. In order to make an efficient and effective initial investment, I think public assistance can also be used.

I also picked up the problem that if you do that, you will be required to give an explanation. I think you can be sufficiently accountable if you use the utilization case I mentioned earlier.

Professor Nakamura mentioned that it is quite difficult for people in the private sector to make data open. That is not the case these days. First of all, I would like you to look at the bottom part. There is almost a consensus in the private sector that our company's data will be used for the public good. I think the problem is the business model at the top. Let's create this business model and use it for the public good, and put cost principles and cost effectiveness into it. I am from an OEM company, and when a disaster occurs now, we provide traffic records free of charge under the name of "Tsuita Michi Map." However, from a much earlier stage, it has been argued that it is not enough.

I would like you to understand that the private sector spends a considerable amount of money and labor to collect data. For example, as I often explain, it is like crude oil. Crude oil is oil. We go to various places such as the Middle East, tell them where the oil is, coordinate with the government there, bring in a mining machine to collect the oil, and then bring in a tanker. We stockpile it. To rephrase it as data, a company creates a market for its customers, receives data, installs in-vehicle equipment, installs sensors, and collects the data. It pays for communication and brings it to its own cloud or various cloud services. Cloud services are not free of charge. They are very expensive. So, even though we have data, we would like to ask the private sector to consider receiving it free of charge.

Another point was whether this data is a part of the corporate value. This is a very important resource for monetization gained by improving processes within companies and upgrading services at each company.

As I said before, it's hard to make a profit only in the service layer, so a business cannot be established only with a business model and data. The company I used to work for, the data monetization above, may increase in the future, but it's hard to make a profit only with that.

Finally, in terms of data incentives, the kind of mobile information that people really use is something like music copyrights. It's like when someone sings at karaoke, you can easily get into that company. Even if the unit price is very low, if you think about it, you can easily get into that company just by using it, I think you can create a business model.

That's all. Thank you for listening.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, , thank you for your positive comments as well.

Nice to meet you all. What do you think?

Here you go.

Murakami Director-General: I think this is the most painful point, focusing only on the data at the end. In any case, this time, we are going to design the entire system by connecting supply and demand, and if we don't start the game with a little bit of new demand, whatever we do with the existing traffic demand will just clash with logic. I think we are already starting to see that somehow. At the end, we have to share data through mutual assistance, but if we start in a flat situation, from the private sector's point of view, there is no motivation to produce data. I think what kind of motivation to design here is probably the most important point in starting the entire game.

One of the hypotheses that can be said within Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation issue Gold is that, especially when My Number Card comes out, there is a possibility that people will be able to collect data indirectly by themselves, whether it is through the DMO of mutual assistance or whatever, so first of all, we will create some kind of system for each area to collect data responsibly, and when private companies get on board, they will make decisions while considering how much they can gain or lose by releasing their own information. First of all, we will have a player somewhere who is responsible for collecting data himself, and then we will start the game. Everyone knows the logic, but with the current standoff, there is no one who has the motivation to release data first. This is the root, and I hope that good wisdom will come out in that regard.

That's all.

Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the .

Who will be in charge of the scope of the data you are looking at this time? What kind of organization will do this and what kind of operation will be done. For example, there is a case where JARTIC and VICS receive paid data from OEMs and use it for traffic jam information. Based on this, we will create an organization to create something like this.

Also, when it comes to money, if you spend 6.8 trillion yen, I think you will have to pay about the first running cost. I don't mean forever.

The problem is that everyone says, "It's really free of charge." At the beginning, we will make it fee-based. We need to understand the difficult situation in the private sector, and we also need to consider a business model in the "Mobility Roadmap." If there is such a thing, I think we can do it.

So, first of all, let's make a solid organization for this red box. It's not just about data. For example, I think HELPNET is a successful example. When an accident occurs, an emergency service is called. It was issued in 2005, but at first it was really in the red and we couldn't do anything about it. However, a consensus has been gradually obtained, and now we are somehow able to pay. I think we will gradually create such a place in the data world as well.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Mr. Okamoto of Tokyo Electric Power Company, what can you say?

Mr. Okamoto: This is .

Thank you, Mr. Yamamoto.

It was very suggestive, and when I was about to make comments and ask questions, Mr. Murakami told me something similar. If I were to say anything in my comments, I would say that I myself am working in a company that deals with electric networks, so I was thinking of myself when I was asking the question, but I think there are many things in common.

Mr. Yamamoto mentioned that it's a little touchy, but our infrastructure may become stranded cost as soon as the situation changes, and in that case, in the end, a new billing model may be needed. There is a very close awareness of this issue, and I heard that basically the base for that is to collect data and make use of it, which is exactly the same.

In that case, the most important issue is how to collect data, and I was going to say that it would be a bit difficult to collect data free of charge.

To give a similar example, we have established a company called Grid Databank Lab together with other companies. The smart electricity meter is a digitalisation of how the electricity network is used and how the electricity is used by customers. It comes to us once. We use Grid Databank Lab to process it as statistical data. Of course, it is not that expensive, but it is a mechanism to provide it for a fee. In April, we became a joint-stock company and started it. It is possible for the private sector to do something, but if it is free of charge, it will not be possible after all. So, even if it is cheap, it will be provided, and killer contents will be added to it. When we find out that it can be used in this way, it will gradually spread, and when it scales, it will be possible for us and others to publish it even if the unit price is a little lower. That is what I heard, and I thought it was very close, and it was a common problem.

Also, when we decided that we wanted the data from the competitors to be provided, as a clear incentive, we thought it would not work in the end if we did not properly include the consideration for providing some data in the system, so I learned a lot about it, including other things.

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Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the .

In addition to the earlier comments by Director-General Murakami and Mr. Okamoto, I would like to make a few comments. It doesn't work to create a data-gathering organization. Three or four years ago, a certain convenience store chain suggested creating a data-gathering bank, but nothing has been done. In the end, what kind of future market I explained earlier and how much we can use this. This is the same as investment. When we start a new business, there is such a market and such a world, so everyone wants to ride it. So, if we organize these things well and think that we need this kind of data for that purpose, to some extent, the motivation of companies will be used in this way in the future.

Another big thing is that I don't think we should create such complicated road usage data. First of all, we should create location data to support supply and demand. It is very important how much we accumulate by time zone, but if we accumulate a lot, it will cost more, so if we add images, it will kill us more.

However, if it is just location data, there is no problem. If it is just location data, once you create it and maintain it, the users will just use the same data and it will increase. So, if we talk about such a business model, the private sector will also say, If so, we will include it here first. If we consider a model in which it is used and then it comes in, I think there is no way that the private sector will not come in.

Murakami Director-General: .

I added a few words because I think there are some loose points in multiplying these points, such as whether to collect them or to leave them scattered so that only necessary data can be called when necessary.

Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the I think I should collect my opinions on the minimum necessary parts. If they are not collected, efficiency and quality cannot be guaranteed.

Right now, VICS and JARTIC are providing traffic jam information. In the case of VICS, we are talking about VICS Link, DRM Link, and Link. Just by doing this, we can collect information intensively and use it in various places. So from your answer, I think we should collect it.

I would like to gather such policies and Architecture's roadmap. I have to submit it here. For the whole of Japan, I would like to get a consensus in this "Mobility Roadmap" that your business model is really a good story. This is also a top-down approach.

Murakami Director-General: I hope that we will be able to discuss this very point well.

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Mr. Okamoto: This is Okamoto. Thank you very much.

As I listened to what you just said, I thought about it further. In the end, what I was talking about was that our electric power network is the same, and I thought that these two networks would overlap through EV. I thought again that even if I said that I would build each of these, it would be necessary to make them connect and cooperate, and I thought that I would like to think about such things together.

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Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the Thank you.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, , please come in.

Mr. Hatano: Mr. Yamamoto , thank you very much for showing various ways of thinking about data use.

Since the second phase of SIP, I have supported JAMA's idea of promoting the use of data by building a common interface. With regard to the data presented today, it is the original source of the data, and I would like to share the issues on the vehicle side. If it is just position information, which Mr. Yamamoto mentioned earlier, most vehicles are already compatible with navigation, so we have already acquired the data internally. However, when it comes to sharing InVehicle and InCar information, it will be extremely important to share how much, how accurately, and how granular it will flow into the interface.

If we discuss this in order to share the data interface, it will be necessary to disclose the internal situation and discuss the selection. If we do not spend a lot of time and effort on this, the interface will not be built in reality, so I would like to have a careful discussion here.

In addition, once the interface is defined, there will be discussions on how to store data. Recently, in international discussions, there has been quite a lot of discussion on the law that data such as EDR, which is data from internal calculations when a so-called airbag deploys, or sensor data, should be stored so that it can be analyzed and analyzed later.

In Japan, the system has not been established yet, but in the international market, such a system will be required in due course. In this case, too, data must be stored in-house using a common interface. To be more specific, resources for storage have been recorded in the vehicle side only to the minimum for quality assurance in the past. On the other hand, in order to request various uses from society, unnecessary data must be stored more and more in the storage. In fact, the investment in the vehicle side, and in turn, the cost burden on the customer, will have to be invested in advance even though there is no use of data.

The infrastructure for data utilization can be shared by all of you at the expense of the beneficiaries, which is unexpectedly possible. However, the original source of the data is that there will be a huge increase in the number of customers who have to store data even though they do not use it, despite the fact that the storage capacity is imposed by rules that are not paid by the beneficiaries or anything else, depending on the situation. We would like to ask you to consider this in your future consideration and discuss how to optimize it. Thank you for your cooperation.

Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the I am also involved in that kind of work, so I understand it well. So, the InCar data in the slide you are looking at is in parentheses. I think this is a fairly competitive area. For example, using ABS, TRC, and skidding, each company can say that it is dangerous to go to this intersection with someone from a police headquarters. However, when it comes together, as you said, it is quite difficult. I think that we should first use such a place as additional information to say that something like this could happen.

However, at the moment, I think that we should do our best to work with the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA) on the wiper for flood information. I think that the JAMA should be able to do this part as well, and I think that we should do it carefully one by one.

The second point is about the cost of storage. If it is impossible because of the cost of storage, I think the provider should stop it. That's impossible. If we accumulate images, it will be flooded, so it would be good if the provider would stop it by saying that it is impossible. As a top-down approach, at the very least, we can do location information together and make road usage more efficient, which doesn't require much data, so we can do it even now.

That's all.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, ?

Saito-san.

Member SAITO: : In terms of what we are talking about now, there are things like the inside of a car and the edge, and things like MEC, but there are also ways to solve the problem by how to create such a so-called Architecture, so there is one thing that I think is not necessarily going to cost only for the car.

Also, I have been talking about costs. In the end, if information on the movement of cars is available, the social cost will go down. So, how much the social cost will go down and how to share the cost will be discussed. In order to reduce the social cost, we will create a utility infrastructure like this. A common infrastructure is, in a sense, a public institution, but for example, there are various costs related to operation and maintenance, and there are parts that reduce the cost of individual capital investment, so I myself think there is a model of investing to reduce the total social cost.

In other words, when the private sector develops something, there is talk that the investment made by the private sector should be recovered through services. In fact, when it comes to reducing social costs, on the other hand, there is a reduction in investment on the part of the government, so I myself think that there is probably talk about how to share investment in such infrastructure while counting that side as well.

Basically, this model is, in a sense, to develop a common platform like Google and Amazon in a utility way as a country. To put it the other way around, investment will be required until all of them are expanded and various data can be obtained, so I myself think it is not the proper way for the country to secure and invest.

Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the I think so, too. Now that you are looking at it, I think there are social benefits of course. In addition, there are effects even if the cost of road maintenance is made a little more efficient. Therefore, if we properly show how much social benefits can be achieved in such a place, we can create a model to some extent.

Another thing is that road usage data is not very good if it is spread too much. As Mr. Hatano said, I think it would be good to start from here and gradually do things like carefully discussing and saying let's do this.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, I believe that it is here that such discussions will be held, but even then, I think that it is not decided who will be able to make it through.

For example, there are many people who would like to use this kind of data because they think there are a lot of safety issues and maintenance issues, as well as traffic jam information, and they want to use it. There are also near-miss incidents, and I heard that road surface conditions can be known by measuring tire air pressure. I think it would be good if it could really be used, but I think it is necessary to seriously consider how much it is really good, such as the scale of the market or investment you mentioned.

At the same time, as Mr. Saito has always said, technology is developing so fast that we will be able to do things tomorrow that we couldn't do today. So we have to think carefully about who and how to draw a dream that includes the cost. It's important, but I have a feeling that the discussion will end up at this level. I think that's important, but what do you think?

Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the I think so, too, and I feel that it would be good to include this in the "Mobility Roadmap" and form this team first around the third phase of the SIP recently. Mr. Ishida, thank you in advance.

Murakami Director-General: Again, just a few words.

I think that if we don't get the demand-side data first, the game won't start even if we tell them to bring only the information on the side that provides vehicle services or operation services. Local public transportation is serious, so we can enter from there. But if the demand is limited to the area, it may be easier to collect the necessary data. In addition, as for the example of stratification of roads, which Mr. Izumi mentioned earlier, it may be easier to start in the neighborhood of small streets, which is the living side. Including such tactics, someone will collect the demand-side data, and it may be necessary to bring it to those who will cooperate if it is necessary for the meaning of the demand.

However, even so, from the service side, if there is a demand, it will be said that I want that demand, so I feel that the reason why it will be shared by everyone will be stuck, so I wonder how the first step of this combination will be easy for everyone to get on. In any case, it is demand-oriented, and I don't know if it is a local area or something, but I feel that it is a good start to start looking without being greedy. It is a point that I would like to discuss.

Mr. Yamamoto: If we go to the area, we can get all of the current probe information and mobile phone information regardless of the area, so I think it would be good to talk about what to focus on there.

As I have said many times, there is a need for killer contents on where people cannot pass due to disasters. There is a model that collects such information and provides it to everyone. In fact, I think it would be good to create two or three services that use the demand for low-hanging fruits and talk about collecting this location information.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Next, Mr. Kimura will talk about the third phase of the SIP. Since we are currently accepting applications, I believe that many people have heard about it today. Inspired by this discussion, we still have a little time to spare, so if everyone does their best, I hope that the SIP will accept it. Thank you very much.

From now on, I would like to receive presentations from the relevant ministries and agencies, and I would like to discuss after receiving all the presentations. I would like to ask Mr. Cabinet Office, Mr. National Police Agency, Mr. Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, the Information Economy Division of the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, the Automobile Division of the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism in this order.

Thank you very much.

Director Kimura, Cabinet Office: Now, Mr. Kimura from the Cabinet Office Office for the Promotion of Science, Technology and Innovation, I would like to explain the "Building a Smart Mobility Platform," which you mentioned in your presentation, and the initiatives of the third phase of the SIP.

As Professor Ishida, Professor Koshizuka, and Professor Nakamura have provided relevant explanations so far, I would like to explain that we are proceeding in this vein in a businesslike manner.

First, on the first page, there are a lot of things that we need to think about in order to implement new mobility in society. It is written in the blue part. As a mission to tackle the new SIP issue of building a smart mobility platform, we would like to advance initiatives to build a platform that realizes safe, environmentally friendly, people-friendly, fair, and seamless mobility by comprehensively working not only on technologies but also on society, towns, and regions in order to utilize a wide range of mobility resources and new means of mobility as described here.

Our goal is smart mobility 2.0. As you can see on the next page, we have been using the term "smart mobility" in the past, but in contrast to that, we are focusing on the viewpoints of being closer to people's lives, being low-speed, short-distance, and small-scale, and aiming for mobility to realize new well-being to realize values closely related to life, such as safety, health, and comfort.

There are three sub-themes.

The first sub-issue is the redefinition of mobility services and the formulation of strategies for their implementation in society. Sub-issue II is R & D aimed at redesigning the infrastructure that supports mobility services. Sub-issue III is the development of equipment and mechanisms that support the experimentation, implementation, and commercialization of smart mobility services. These are the concepts and menu methods that are schematically described here. A researcher is not just doing one thing, but rather combining themes from various perspectives and comprehensively promoting it. We are currently accepting applications for such proposals. I will also explain them at the end.

On page 4, I would like to explain a little about the research theme of breakdown in sub-task I.

This is to create planning guidelines for redesigning mobility services in order to make the most of mobility resources. From grasping the actual situation to utilizing simulations, we will create general mobilization chips (tips) for the region, create planning guidelines, and think about concepts that will become international indicators for redesigning.

We are also considering initiatives for logistics MaaS.

I would also like to work on the implementation of Tactical Mobility Redesign.

This is the technical part.

The first section, II-1, is about how to make community roads safe and how to deal with issues such as creating liveliness in urban areas. From the first section, VII-1 to the first section, I would like to work on how to make community spaces close to daily life safe, including how to use various monitoring and data.

At the bottom, how do we reduce risks? At the same time, we are considering R & D on transportation infrastructure technology.

From the viewpoint of making roads safe for pedestrians, we will examine systems that use communication technology centered on V2X and work on how to convey information to pedestrians.

We are also considering signaling.

We would like to work on the relationship with sensors, and we are also considering initiatives to utilize new measurement technologies to grasp the actual situation of community roads.

On page 6, we are considering the perspective of the smart mobility market and the initiatives related to digital system infrastructure and data infrastructure proposed by Professor Koshizuka. I believe there was a discussion earlier about the need for a centralized database, but in fact, it is not so centralized, but a decentralized data infrastructure will be created. Data sovereignty will continue to be maintained by the data provider. However, it is not enough, so we will combine each database in a federal form. From the user's point of view, there are various conditions, but if they are met, as a whole, we aim to make it possible to use various data together.

While utilizing such data platforms, we will also work on initiatives to utilize digital information in road spaces called digital sandboxes.

It has something to do with self-driving, and the study of what are the requirements for cars that contribute to redesigning is a survey.

We will also work on social systemization to make it easier to introduce autonomous driving technology.

We will also promote social experiments.

We will consider how to form local communities, business communities, and data communities to introduce mobility.

In order for startups to provide new mobility services, we are considering building a platform that facilitates mobility data sharing and sharing, such as Shared Service for Mobility.

International collaboration We will also work to develop mobility introduction measures that Japan is newly considering through international collaboration.

There are also efforts to develop human resources who can advance such new mobility services.

From page 8, we are currently accepting applications for R & D themes. As for the schedule, we are currently accepting applications until August 10. The schedule is summarized on page 10, so please take a look.

As for the research system, we would like to decide the implementation system by the end of September. Under the guidance of Dr. Ishida, Dr. Koshizuka, and Dr. Nakamura, NEDO, a research promotion corporation, is promoting this public offering initiative.

That's all.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Next, Mr. National Police Agency, please.

Ito National Police Agency, General Manager: Next, I am Ito, General Manager of National Police Agency Autonomous Driving Planning Office. I would like to briefly explain the police's efforts to realize autonomous driving.

First of all, I would like to touch briefly on the situation of traffic accidents. The number of deaths from traffic accidents has been on a declining trend since 1992, and 2022 was the lowest in National Police Agency's statistics since 1948.

Looking at the number of traffic accidents in 2022, approximately 96% of fatal traffic accidents were caused by laws and ordinances violations by drivers, and it is clear that many fatal traffic accidents are caused by driver errors.

As autonomous driving systems replace the cognitive, predictive, decision-making, and operational tasks previously performed by humans, the widespread use of autonomous vehicles is expected to reduce traffic accidents.

In addition, traffic jams on expressways are often caused by a natural decrease in the speed of the car at the sag and other points, resulting in a decrease in the distance between cars, which in turn causes the following car to press the brakes. Therefore, the autonomous driving system is expected to alleviate traffic jams by creating a smooth traffic flow with no sudden speed changes.

In this way, autonomous driving systems are effective in reducing traffic accidents and alleviating traffic congestion, so the police have been working on various measures from the viewpoint of supporting the progress so that autonomous driving in accordance with the road environment in Japan can be realized at an early stage.

This time, among the specific efforts, I will explain the development of traffic rules, the development of verification test environments, and R & D.

First, it will be about the development of traffic rules.

In order to develop a system for the practical application of Level 4 autonomous driving, in April 2022, a law was passed to partially amend the Road Traffic Law, including the establishment of a permission system for specific autonomous driving with the realization of unmanned autonomous travel services with only remote monitoring in a limited area in mind, and it came into effect in April this year.

Under this permission system, when attempting to perform specified automated driving, which is automated driving without a driver equivalent to Level 4, permission from the Prefectural Public Safety Commission is required, and a plan describing the implementation guidelines for measures in the event that the automated driving system cannot respond is submitted to the Prefectural Public Safety Commission for examination.

In addition, new mandatory provisions have been established regarding the compliance requirements for those who have received permission for specific automated driving and the response in the event that the automated driving system cannot respond in the event of a traffic accident, etc. In addition, provisions have been established regarding the revocation of permission and administrative sanctions against those who have received permission.

The image of the permission system for specified automatic operation is as shown in this figure. As shown in the upper part of this figure, it is mainly assumed to be a corporation such as a company. A person who receives a permission and intends to perform specified automatic operation as a specified automatic operation execution person submits an application to the Prefectural Public Safety Commission, and the Prefectural Public Safety Commission conducts an examination according to the five permission standards, which are on the right side of the figure.

With regard to "the purpose is to transport people or goods and it is recognized that it contributes to the improvement of convenience and welfare of local residents" written in (v) of the permission criteria, it is decided to make a decision after hearing the opinions of the head of the municipality where the specified automatic operation is performed.

In addition to having various obligations such as compliance with the Specific Automated Operation Plan, the Specific Automated Operation Implementation Organization that has received permission from the Prefectural Public Safety Commission is required to assign a Specific Automated Operation Chief either inside the vehicle or at a designated location outside the vehicle, as shown on the left side of the figure. The Specific Automated Operation Chief is responsible for remote monitoring or similar monitoring from inside the vehicle.

As shown in the lower left of the figure, the chief of specific automatic operation is supposed to take actions when a traffic accident occurs.

This is the outline of the permit system.

The case of Eiheiji Temple in Fukui Prefecture, which is a remote monitoring type Level 4, is actually being operated on public roads.

Since March 2021, we have been providing services using vehicles equipped with Level 3 automated driving systems. On March 30, 2023, we were newly authorized by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism as vehicles equipped with automated driving systems (Level 4). On May 11, 2023, the Public Safety Commission of Fukui Prefecture granted permission for specified automated driving, and the service has now started.

Next, I would like to explain our efforts to improve verification test environments.

In May 2016, National Police Agency formulated and published "Guidelines for Public Road verification test Related to Automated Driving Systems."

These guidelines indicate that verification test on public roads can be made without special permission or notification procedures under the conditions that the experimental vehicle conforms to the provisions of the Safety Standards for Road Transport Vehicles and that the driver can get in the driver's seat of the experimental vehicle and perform necessary operations in emergencies.

There is a verification test that does not follow the guidelines. We have clarified the criteria for permission to use the road so that we can safely and smoothly carry out a verification test using a specially shaped car.

The standards common to both remote autonomous driving systems and special equipment vehicles include how the maximum speed should be during experiments, how to check the technical level of the vehicle before autonomous driving, and how to keep records such as drive recorders to investigate the cause of traffic accidents when they occur. On the other hand, as individual requirements, remote autonomous driving systems require measures to be taken when communication is delayed, and special equipment vehicles require the technical level of the operator.

These standards were revised in April this year in light of changes in the situation. First of all, in line with the enforcement of the permission system for specified automated driving, we are clarifying measures to ensure safety and conditions for permission when using remote autonomous driving systems to drive specified automated driving vehicles on routes after specified automated driving has ended.

In the case of national expressways, we are also establishing new standards for the examination of the verification test of remote autonomous driving systems on public roads.

Finally, I would like to explain about research and development.

This research and development is being conducted in the framework of autonomous driving of SIPs to provide signal information using clouds, etc. In this research, we are considering a mechanism to provide signal information to autonomous vehicles using mobile phone communication networks such as LTE as a method other than road-to-vehicle communication such as ITS wireless road-side units.

First, the police in each prefecture will send the traffic signal information in the prefecture to National Police Agency, and National Police Agency will collect the nationwide traffic signal information and send it to the Traffic Signal Information Center, tentatively called the Traffic Signal Information Center, which will send it to the servers of each company and then send it to the cars. This is the process we are considering.

As for the V2N signal information provision technology, as a result of verifying the effectiveness of the entire system from traffic signals to simulated in-vehicle equipment, we have found that the introduction of new specifications for traffic signals satisfies the technical requirements for signal information provision required for autonomous driving, and we have been able to significantly advance its development.

In fiscal 2022, we held a study meeting on how to implement SIP in the future based on the results obtained through R & D on SIP in relation to the provision of traffic signal information and traffic regulation information for cooperative autonomous driving systems. I would like to introduce it here.

In order to proceed with the study, we are conducting interviews with car manufacturers, related business operators, traffic control manufacturers, and prefectural police for the purpose of listening to the use cases, needs, future development trends, etc. of cooperative autonomous driving systems assumed by those involved in autonomous driving. The outline is as shown in this ponte picture.

First of all, regarding the results of the study on how to use traffic signal information and traffic regulation information, traffic signal information can be used in cases such as making traffic at intersections smooth by understanding the light color and other information in advance before entering an intersection and slowing down, or double-checking the light color information recognized by in-vehicle cameras.

On the other hand, since it is a principle for all traffic entities to recognize and follow the lights of actual traffic signals, self-driving cars should also recognize and follow the lights by in-vehicle cameras.

In addition, regarding traffic regulation information, although self-driving cars need to comply with traffic regulations indicated by actual road signs, etc., as long as the accuracy of traffic regulation information can always be ensured, the results of the study show that driving only according to traffic regulation information on a digital map is not necessarily denied.

Next, with regard to the matters to be addressed by the police, the report states that it is not realistic for the police to develop large-scale facilities for providing traffic signal information or to provide traffic control information throughout the country with constant accuracy. For the time being, the report states that the police will continue to promote R & D on technical issues related to the V2N system, and that it will consider enabling a framework that temporarily allows private sector to connect radios to traffic signal controllers for verification test for a longer period than is currently possible.

The police will continue to work diligently to develop traffic rules and verification test environments from the perspective of supporting the progress of autonomous driving technology.

Thank you for your attention.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Next, Mr. Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, please.

Director Masuko Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications: I am Masuko, Director of the New Generation Mobile Communication System Promotion Office, Mobile Communication Division, Radio Department, Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Telecommunications Bureau, .

Today, I would like to introduce policy trends toward the introduction of 5.9 GHz band V2X communications, which is currently being worked on in Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, under the theme of "Next-Generation ITS Communications in the Age of Autonomous Driving."

As you know, under the leadership of Digital Agency and Cabinet Office, the relevant ministries and agencies are working together on the current ITS promotion system, and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications is in charge of developing information and communications environments.

As you are all aware, it is quite difficult to connect automobiles with optical fibers when considering communications. Therefore, we are using radio waves for communications and various applications. From highway radios in the past to in-vehicle radar systems recently used for brakes, we are using radio waves of various frequencies from low to high.

In the upper left, there is a 700 MHz band safe driving support system. This system has been used since 2015. It is a so-called V2X communication. It currently uses radio waves of 10 MHz width. With this frequency width, it is possible to broadcast and publicize the current information and status of the current car to the surrounding people. However, when considering autonomous driving in the future, there is not enough bandwidth to express the intention of the car or to coordinate and negotiate when merging. Now, internationally, there is a movement to use the 5.9 GHz band for V2X. In Japan, there is a movement to allocate an additional 5.9 GHz band in addition to the 760 MHz band.

In response to this situation, Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications has been holding the "Study Group on' Next-Generation ITS Communications' in the Age of Autonomous Driving" since February this year, led by Professor Morikawa of the University of Tokyo, and has been discussing the additional allocation of 5.9 GHz and V2X. An interim report is scheduled to be compiled around August this summer.

V2X communications and V2N communications are generally referred to, but if we talk about them while the definition is unclear, the discussion tends to diverge. There is an interpretation that V2X communications and Vehicle to Everything include networks in a broad sense, but in order to prevent confusion, we have defined V2X communications in a narrow way, so-called V2I communications and V2V communications, Vehicle to Infrastructure and Vehicle to Vehicle, and we have discussed V2N communications and so-called mobile phone data lines separately in the outer frame.

As you know, mobile phone lines and V2N communications are available, but as you can see in the lower part of the table, you can use the mobile phone system as it is, so communication is possible in most cases.

On the other hand, the communication ratio is always the best effort.

Also, there was a problem last year, but there is a disadvantage that if there is a failure in the mobile network, there will be a problem in communication.

On the other hand, if dedicated V2X communication can be used, it will be direct communication, so there will be no considerable delay in transmission, and of course, there will be the advantage of not being affected by failures in the mobile network, so I think it will be a very good system to use in safety-related areas.

As for the background of the discussion on the 5.9 GHz band, in the study of the Cabinet Office SIP, there has been discussion on whether the 5.9 GHz band will be needed as a new communication method for autonomous driving from around 2030, and whether a frequency bandwidth of 20 GHz or more will be needed.

Regarding the radio wave of 10 GHz width in the 760 MHz band that is currently being used, both the left and right sides are congested, and if it is difficult to expand it, we are considering whether it would be better to utilize the 5.9 GHz band, which is currently being used internationally.

Regarding the cooperative autonomous driving use cases and the roadmap, we are proceeding with the study based on what was compiled here.

This is an outline of the draft interim report of our study group. As I mentioned earlier, it is scheduled to be compiled and announced around August. I would like to introduce it while it is still a draft. Regarding the positioning of V2X communications, as you can see in the figure on the upper right, areas very close to cars are basically covered by in-vehicle sensors. For information about 1 km or 10 km away, I think it would be good to make good use of V2N using mobile phone networks.

On the other hand, there is information that is a little beyond the reach of in-vehicle sensors and that must be obtained immediately. In the case of mobile phones, it is quite difficult to obtain information through a server or with a delay. Therefore, V2X is expected to be a system that can bridge the gap between in-vehicle sensors and mobile phones.

This is quite different from the conventional common sense in the communications industry. Until now, in the communications industry, it has been enough to look mainly at the amount of content and transmission capacity, whether or not it can be sent properly. However, this time, we have a very difficult problem with car communication. The problem is that the degree of satisfaction of the information on the receiving side varies greatly depending on the accuracy of the position information. I think that when V2X communication is put into practical use in the future, it will be a very difficult problem to communicate properly with the accuracy of the position information of the car enhanced.

In fact, if you don't know which lane you are driving in, the person who receives the information will not know how to handle it. Therefore, at least at the lane level, you will be able to grasp where you are while sharing the location information with the people around you. This is a kind of self-driving society.

In addition, I believe that such digital communications have great advantages, and I believe that drivers still use communications. The hazard lights, which are used as a thank you, can be removed by some kind of communications, and there are times when the brake lights are turned on five times or when the headlights are turned on. For example, when the headlights are turned on at an intersection facing each other on the right side, everyone will give a warning, but it is very ambiguous whether it means to go or to wait. If this is sent digitally, it can be sent as a very clear message, and I expect that communications will become very important in enhancing safety in the age of autonomous driving.

In addition, if we introduce such a new communication system, it will inevitably be a challenge to spread it. According to the JAMA's consideration, it is said that it will be put into practical use from around 2030, and it will be around 2040 when actual cooperative autonomous driving and notification will be negotiated and joined.

However, even if we are asked to install a radio system that will be used in 10 years from now in 2030, it will not work well for car users. As a user, if you don't feel happy as soon as you pay for it, I don't think there will be much momentum to introduce it.

Of course, I believe there are some people who would be willing to include it as a future investment, but in addition to that, I am aware of the issue of whether we need to consider that there are benefits even in the immediate future.

In that sense, for the time being, we need to consider the use cases in the introduction phase and the use cases in the diffusion phase separately. As for the use cases in the introduction phase, for example, in the parking lot of an apartment building, if a 5.9 GHz system is installed, the gate will open if you go near it without doing anything, or it can be linked with such a system, I think we really need to consider applications other than ITS and road traffic.

On the other hand, it is a wireless system that is also related to safety, so I don't think anything will be put on it. Just because it is related to cars, it is extremely wasteful to send entertainment videos that are seen in the company in this band, so I would like you to do that with mobile phone lines. On the other hand, using this communication will make cars more convenient, and users will also feel the benefits. I think that such use cases must be incorporated from the very beginning. In addition, as the number of such wireless systems increases and spreads around the world, there will be more people who want to use them in various ways. Therefore, for this use case, we hope to develop a system that can be expanded in the future. Recently, there are technologies such as OTA, and we hope to develop a system that can accommodate functional expansion by rewriting software.

This is the specific direction of introduction.

The 5.9 GHz band for V2X communications is being studied in Europe, the United States, and China. However, the frequency bands used are slightly different depending on the country. For the time being, Japan wants to use this band and is studying it. At least 20 MHz bandwidth must be secured. On the other hand, if we try to open all of them, some broadcasting companies are currently using radios, so we have to migrate them.

As we discussed, the upper half and the lower half of the 5.9 GHz band are used in slightly different ways, and the upper half is relatively easy to transfer. On the other hand, the lower half is difficult to transfer to other frequencies, and some other countries use 30 MHz or 20 MHz. For the time being, we are considering transferring the frequencies of the upper half first and introducing V2X communications with a maximum bandwidth of 30 MHz into this band.

Of course, when we install such a new system, other systems, especially radio waves, may cause inconvenience to our neighbors, so we will consider whether there will be any inconvenience to the broadcasting business radio stations that we will use nearby, or to ETC that we really use nearby, and we will aim to use a maximum of 30 MHz for the time being.

In terms of the direction of consideration for this roadmap, normally, it would take a long period of time, such as 10 years or 15 years, to transfer the frequencies of radio stations. However, if we start to transfer the frequencies of radio stations for broadcasting business from now and start using them in 2035 or so, it would not be very good from the perspective of innovation. So, would it be possible to shorten that time? Another issue is that we need to consider measures to promote the transfer of frequencies.

I believe that Mr. Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry will speak about this from now, but there is a move to formulate a national comprehensive development plan for digital infrastructure by the end of this fiscal year. This is a document announced by METI at the end of March, which states that drones and autonomous driving are the two pillars of the Early Harvest Project, and I understand that an autonomous driving support road will be established in the project.

Communication is also an infrastructure in these places, so we need to create an environment where we can actively introduce experiments and tests of radio stations in the 5.9 Ghz band in these places. This is our awareness of the problem.

I would like to contribute to these areas, so please refer to the next page.

This is a document that Minister for Internal Affairs and Communications presented at the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Realization Conference on June 2, in which he indicated his stance of contributing to the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Comprehensive Strategies in the areas of autonomous driving and drones.

First, in terms of support for autonomous driving in local areas, we will conduct demonstrations of autonomous driving in local areas, and there are needs for remote monitoring, especially when autonomous driving is conducted in a limited area at Level 4. There is a need for stable transmission of video, so in that sense, we will be able to guarantee bandwidth. We would like to promote the development of a new type of communication network called 5 gsa, standalone, and we would like to launch 5 gsa base stations where there is a need while cooperating with Level 4 operators.

In addition, in support of autonomous driving on expressways, as I mentioned earlier, V2X communication in the 5.9 Ghz band, in particular, I would like to quickly develop environments that can be used for autonomous driving support roads. In the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Comprehensive Strategies, I believe that we will aim to expand the concept of such support roads in the future, expand their use in various ways, and eventually use them nationwide. Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications is also considering expanding the areas where the 5.9 Ghz band can be used by making good use of these movements.

That's all.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Next, Mr. Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, please.

Izumi Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, Director: This is Izumi .

Now, regarding the status of consideration of the National Comprehensive Development Plan for Digital Lifelines, this is a policy that is being promoted with the cooperation of the people of eight ministries and 17 bureaus plus the IPA.

I explained the launch of the Digital Lifeline at the second workshop, so today I would like to talk about the update including the overall background.

My explanation is mainly on the first page. First of all, the government as a whole, including the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI), is taking measures to realize Society5.0. As a result of Mr. Saito's analysis of the historical background, this is a policy that has been implemented by the Japan Federation of Economic Organizations (Keidanren) as a symbol of Public-Private Partnership on science and technology policy, with the aim of firmly Public-Private Partnership and making policies in one direction against the policies of other countries such as Industry 4.0 and IIC. In this regard, together with IPA/DADC, we announced the Architecture design of autonomous mobile robots and the guidelines for four dimensional spatial information infrastructure. With a view to the Japanese version of Catena-X, we issued the alpha version of the guidelines on data-linkage on the supply chain, and will continue to expand the use cases horizontally.

Furthermore, we are advancing the National Comprehensive Development Plan for Digital Lifelines, which includes measures to give momentum to the Uranus Ecosystem. In this regard, as I introduced in the second meeting, Prime Minister Fumio Kishida gave instructions to Foreign Minister Nishimura at the 12th Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Realization Conference, as shown on this screen.

In response to this, we held a realization meeting this time, and the secretariat materials are attached as they are below the reference materials, so I would like to explain the issues of this material from now on.

I would like to reiterate this point, but according to Professor Nakamura's explanation today, I believe that the creation of a new local living area even amid a declining population is a kind of re-design and is the responsibility of the government. And, I would like to focus on what to create in a mid - to long-term plan. As you have already quoted a few things today, from the perspective of connecting the demonstration of a line from a point or a surface by stacking lines to social implementation, we will consider what the components of the digital lifeline are and what the image of social implementation is, while firmly incorporating the tangible aspects of infrastructure management by drones, autonomous driving, and 3D into the plan. Regarding the components of the digital lifeline, as I explained in the 2nd meeting, we are considering what the components are from the perspective of every corner of the country, what data should be prepared in cyberspace, and what should be prepared as a point of contact connecting physical and cyber, including communication infrastructure. Naturally, from the perspective of developing rules including social acceptability, one of the issues is to balance the strategic development of the digital infrastructure with the strategic downsizing of the legacy infrastructure.

In the Government's promotion system, as shown on this screen, each ministry has made a commitment and is quoted in the materials. In particular, as in the case of digital activities and drones, multiple ministries and agencies related to measures are cooperating, and as for autonomous driving, there are such exchanges. In particular, in Digital Agency, from here, we recognize that the public-private ITS concept and roadmap will be developed as a "Mobility Roadmap." In that case, I believe that this "Mobility Roadmap" will be discussed with a broad scope of expanding it to every corner of the country.

The meeting was held with the aim of formulating and agreeing on a plan between the public and private sectors. The meeting was attended by the heads of eight ministries and 17 bureaus. When I first met with Mr. Suzuki, the representative of JUTM, for a hearing, I was told that he wanted us to work hard to create a system that combines air traffic control administration and road administration, as symbolized by the concept of flying cars. This kind of cross-sectional system has been adopted. In this context, the first meeting was held at the end of June, with the private sector, including the heads of providers, users, and public organizations, to input the progress into a major meeting and to steadily advance it together with the working group. Going forward, during the examination, we will draw up a 10-year plan while firmly determining the specifications or components, operators, bearers, and priority regions, and bring it to the Cabinet decision. The issue is how to combine drones, autonomous driving, and infrastructure management in the priority regions. (Next) These three pages are the next page.

In particular, when developing new technologies in society, as discussed today, product-oriented, that is, even if those who provide goods say that they should use them, does not spread very well. In that sense, it has been said that it is important for Mr. Saito to thoroughly pull out data on the demand side, and in the sense of matching supply and demand, it is one way to think about mainly checking major trunk roads or trunk lines.

At that time, on the surface, when the three types of drones, autonomous driving, and infrastructure are overlapped according to demand, we would like to designate a leading region from the perspective of social implementation, and we are currently considering this.

The main opinions expressed at the First Realization Meeting were that it is important to thoroughly organize the specifications and operating entities together, that the distribution and people's flow are carefully considered not only in normal times but also in emergencies, and that both providers and users are committed to each other regarding the prospects for use and supply. As was also the case with infrastructure and other matters, I believe that it is important for the relevant ministries and agencies to consider specific dissemination policies and budgetary support measures, etc., in response to each assumption of when the infrastructure will be ready and when it will be used. Although it has not yet been formally presented, I would like to summarize the opinions of experts in my own way. It is important to create a highly predictable plan so that the private sector can invest with peace of mind, so it is important for the plan to be highly predictable. At that time, we received opinions from members of the private sector that although the autonomous driving support roads are very important, we would like to see them extended from Tokyo to Nagoya or Osaka without limiting it to a short-term implementation.

Today, I received reports from various ministries and agencies on the importance of road-to-vehicle coordination, which they have been working on as part of their policies. In doing so, I received the opinion that it is important to develop not only interchanges but also arrival and departure points for people's flow and distribution. In doing so, I received the opinion that it is important to divide self-driving car lanes into two categories, as Chairman Ishida commented at the outset, and to develop roads that allow cars to travel with peace of mind.

In addition, we have received requests that the parties responsible for these operations, particularly those responsible for data-linkage, be firmly identified as they are cross-cutting mechanisms, that the development of a computational infrastructure that can respond to the amount of data-related computation be materialized as a Public-Private Partnership in the sense of social infrastructure, and that these considerations be firmly advanced from the perspective of providing services to consumers and supporting disasters.

As for the future plan, I would like to make a small point into a large point. In the sense of increasing the size at the beginning, I would like to start with advanced local governments and companies while considering social acceptability. In other words, I would like to expand it in a way that there is no reputational risk of failure, considering safety. In the end, I would like to consider that it will be able to run by itself with consideration for economy. On the other hand, regarding the ratio of public and private contributions, I would like to aim at the government taking the lead in the short term and balancing it in the medium term. In the end, I would like to aim at being able to run by itself steadily over the long term. In addition, I would like to clearly formulate the standards for maintenance as a plan.

In response to this, I would like to ask about incentives, enforcement, and monitoring. In particular, I would like to ask about the issue of whether we should consider various options depending on the situation. For example, in the case of autonomous driving services, we have to pay for distribution and other costs. In particular, in the case of drones, it is difficult to pay by cost alone at this point in time or in the medium - to long-term. Depending on the situation, we may need to make a Public-Private Partnership and purchase them in emergencies.

Then, of course, it is important to set KPI and KGI firmly and to set indicators so that the formulated plan can be self-propelled.

This is the last page for the explanation. The related initiatives are organized around the activities of IPA/DADC, with the guidance of Mr. Saito as the President of IPA. In terms of digital garden cities, smart cities, and so on, what we are working on now is, first, smart homes and smart buildings as the components of a digital society, and then, smart mobility as the relationship between the components, and intelligent contracts that include data-linkage infrastructure to link them in digital conclusion. Looking at the entire digital society from this perspective, we are developing a three dimensional digital infrastructure for linking mobility and implementing a AI society, and we are currently working on it in the form of the Uranus Ecosystem as an initiative for the Public-Private Partnership.

For example, in order to comply with the European Battery Regulation, it will be necessary to establish a data-linkage mechanism that cuts across the industry of "things" such as automobiles and batteries. Therefore, IPA/DADC has been established as a forum for cross-industry dialogue between the competent division and industry, and is working to materialize policies such as Architecture design. That is all the explanation from METI.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, .

Next, Kyoto-san from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry Automobile Section, please.

Assistant Kyoto Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry: My name is Kyoto from the Automobile Section in Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, . Nice to meet you.

As you just explained, I would like to explain that we will work from the perspective of how to link and coordinate the discussions on the National Comprehensive Plan for the Development of Digital Lifelines and the on-site demonstrations that we have been conducting so far, as well as the cooperation between the relevant ministries and agencies.

First of all, this time we participated for the first time under the name of Mobility DX Office, but until now we have called it the ITS and Autonomous Driving Promotion Office. Of course, we have not been working on various things just with the intention of making it self-driving, but we have been working on it with the idea that self-driving is essential to solve social issues and win global competition at the same time, so in July we changed the name so that the name represents the body.

In addressing the issues I have just mentioned, the basic understanding of the situation is, as I have explained in the past, that in order to respond to social issues, such as the use of software for cars themselves and the acceleration of digitalisation, we must build new services, not technologies. For that, as I have been briefed by the relevant ministries and agencies, we will need to rebuild the infrastructure and laws and ordinances, and we are working with the cooperation of all of you.

In particular, as mentioned in the previous discussion, for example, we are not completely switching from manual driving to autonomous driving. On the left, we are talking about safe and smooth road traffic. The second point is described as easing traffic congestion. Even if we do not change everything to autonomous driving, we can of course contribute to solving social issues just by mixing cars that accelerate and decelerate at a certain pace and accurately predict the future traffic situation. We are also working on the joy of driving, for those who want to drive by themselves, as described in the middle, a society where many people can move comfortably. As described in the upper part, comfort is improved and the number of people who can drive happily increases. And on the right, industrial competitiveness is improved. As described in related industries, we are not scattering individual and disparate services, but various services are linked to achieve the results that one customer wants. We are also working on improving your society not only by driving and transportation directly, but also by improving the efficiency of transportation and logistics.

As for the fourth page, we are working on this with the idea of starting with what we can do as soon as possible. In other words, rather than starting with a private car that can be expected to be in a complex traffic environment or a private car that can run anywhere, we are proceeding with a project to implement Level 4 autonomous driving in advance from commercial vehicles that can easily narrow down the driving conditions.

As you pointed out at the beginning, we recognize that it is from service cars, and you also pointed out small mobility and slow mobility, but as I will explain later, at Eiheiji Temple in Fukui Prefecture, a cart type started service this year. I will explain later.

I would like to skip pages 5 and 6 for your reference. On page 7, I would like to talk about technology based on the premise that I just talked about. When I listen to the previous discussion, we are not forming a transportation society only with autonomous driving. The major premise is that we share the public infrastructure and obey the traffic rules together with the surrounding traffic participants. What we are working on here is not a technology-oriented one, but looking to the future where autonomous vehicles will come and go, and I write Theme 1 at the bottom, which is at the upper left, is to first realize a mobile service at Level 4.

It has been pointed out that this is a narrow and very limited area, but it is progressing at a very slow speed. It is not just a technical achievement, but a new way of doing things was developed with the cooperation of a large number of people during the licensing period. The fact that it was developed, including the licensing process, is an important first example that a lot of knowledge was accumulated, and even now we continue to share knowledge by accepting inspection visits from local police and related organizations on a daily basis.

Of course, this is not all. As indicated by the blue triangle arrow, for example, we will expand the areas and types of vehicles. And in the lower left, there is Theme 3, which is a discussion on digital lifelines, and as I will explain later, we are discussing logistics systems, people and goods, and what kind of cooperation with infrastructure is necessary to deal with mixed spaces.

I would like to explain the details once again. Eiheiji Temple in Fukui prefecture achieved Level 4. Not only from the technical point of view that it runs slowly following the electromagnetic induction line in a very limited area, but also it continues to produce a lot of knowledge, which is the most important point. This is the first example that is very important for us.

I said earlier that we should start with what we can do as soon as possible, but what can contribute to the social issues I mentioned at the beginning is self-driving technology. To do so, as I also said at the beginning, coordination, discussion, and R & D are required for all the hard, soft, and rules in the lower left.

This discussion is included in the very large National Comprehensive Development Plan for Digital Lifelines, and I believe that we will contribute to the discussion on the substance in cooperation with the relevant ministries and agencies and in cooperation with the public and private sectors.

In terms of how we can contribute, I would like to reiterate that we have to think about how we can use technology, not how we can build on it. As described in the second sentence in the light blue section, we were planning to make it concrete by discussing it with each ministry, but all the people concerned are going to use up the discussion on the Digital Lifeline, and I would like to create it with a wide range of people.

The members of the discussions I have been discussing and the members of the Digital Lifeline are a little different, but I have no other intention, and I am asking the members to come together with the aim of creating something good for each and cooperating with each other.

There are a lot of details in what we are actually working on, but what is particularly important, as you can see in the vertical column at the far left end of the table, is from FY2024 to FY2025.

We are already working on Theme 3, which I explained in the previous slide, until the end of FY2025. Therefore, we are actually working to realize Level 4 self-driving trucks on highways, and FY2024 and FY2025 will be exactly where the existing projects and discussions on digital lifelines overlap. I think it is particularly important, and at the first realization meeting in June, Chairman Ishida also pointed out that we must maximize the public interest so that the infrastructure is not developed only for Level 4. I believe that such a perspective is also a point of contribution as a section in charge of the business that we have been working on together with industry so far.

Also, what you pointed out today is how to use it by users while absorbing their needs. If you look at the lower part, which is written as verification test on the left, which is the area of business feasibility, we will have distribution and transportation companies participate in it, and while absorbing their needs and accompanying them, we will consider how infrastructure and cars should be. This tends to be a chicken-and-egg discussion, so we have been trying to go further so that this does not happen. From such a perspective, I think this discussion on digital lifelines will be a tailwind, so with your cooperation, we will make a solid contribution and utilize it, including in existing projects.

That's all.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Lastly, I would like to ask the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.

Mr. Shimokawa, Assistant of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Mobility Service Promotion Division

After I explain about Re-Design, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles will explain about autonomous driving.

Today's structure. I will explain the promotion of new mobility services that contribute to redesign, including MaaS, and then the Bureau of Motor Vehicles will explain.

This is the current situation of regional public transportation. Due to the declining population, the long-term decline in the number of passengers has become a serious situation. Due to the impact of the novel coronavirus, the situation is so serious that there is a view that more than 10 years have passed at once, and in particular, some local railways are unable to fully demonstrate their characteristics as mass transportation, and I believe it is necessary to take measures.

As described above, the management of many transportation companies is currently in a difficult situation, and the decrease in demand is unavoidable only by the management efforts of transportation companies. For this reason, we believe that it is necessary to re-design local public transportation by strengthening cooperation and collaboration among various local stakeholders, including the public and private sectors, instead of working only in the transportation field.

Based on this idea, as Dr. Nakamura explained, the Regional and Public Transport Subcommittee also discussed it, and in June this year, a concept for re-design was compiled. We believe that traffic DX, which implements digital technologies such as autonomous driving and MaaS, has the potential to be a catalyst for improving convenience in the transportation field, and at the same time, we would like to promote re-design of regional and public transport through initiatives to maintain regional and public transport co-created by various parties including local communities.

It has become necessary to promote new mobility services that contribute to re-design. We believe that MaaS, which integrates all modes of transportation and adds value to means of transportation and services through cooperation in the fields of accommodation, tourism, medical care, welfare, and education, is exactly what promotes co-creation that strengthens cooperation and collaboration among various local stakeholders, including the public and private sectors. Regarding the concept and initiatives of MaaS, initiatives to solve problems are advancing in various parts of Japan.

In addition, we believe that it is essential to promote the use of AI on-demand transportation, ultra-small mobility, autonomous driving, and other new transportation services in order to carefully respond to the diversified mobility needs in each area.

In addition, we believe that we can expect town development and infrastructure development integrated with transportation by analyzing and utilizing mobility-related data in the transportation field obtained through MaaS in collaboration with other fields and new transportation services.

Therefore, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT) is working on the utilization of this data, including the promotion of new transportation services such as autonomous driving along with MaaS and cooperation with other fields.

We are advancing the Japanese version of MaaS.

We are working on the concept of universal MaaS, and we are advancing the Japanese version of MaaS as a mechanism for all people to use new mobility services in all areas, including cities and rural areas, the elderly, and the disabled.

As you already know, in the Kansai region, in preparation for the Kansai Expo, the Kansai MaaS initiative is being promoted to deepen tourism information in conjunction with the Expo app and others, and the Kyushu MaaS initiative is also being promoted to provide services in the wider Kyushu region.

These are expected to contribute to the solution of regional issues, such as the maintenance and revitalization of local public transportation, by creating travel demand through integration with non-transportation services, as well as improving the convenience of travel. We will expand the scope of these MaaS initiatives and further collaborate with other fields.

Regarding MaaS, existing initiatives are advancing, but in order to further expand the area, it is necessary to enhance data collaboration. In June 2020, a study group on enhancing data collaboration was compiled. It was confirmed that it is important to promote data collaboration in places where initiatives are already advancing and not to leave behind small and medium-sized enterprises and local business operators who want to collaborate with data.

Therefore, since fiscal 2022, we have been cooperating with Digital Agency in certain areas where multiple businesses can cooperate over a wide area and conducting a demonstration project of a data-linkage platform. We aim to build and spread a platform for data-linkage within a certain group and then a linkage for linking this platform with other platforms.

We believe that it is important to advance initiatives using not only MaaS but also new transportation services. We would like to advance co-creation and re-design initiatives utilizing digital technology to integrally promote the resolution of regional social issues, not issues to be solved by transportation operators alone.

As a co-creation project, we are promoting, for example, AI on-demand transportation, using AI on-demand transportation to secure means of transportation for the elderly, including shopping, in areas where transportation is inconvenient.

In addition, the introduction of Green Slow Mobility and the distribution of coupons at shopping centers and other initiatives are being promoted to improve convenience and promote going out, which will contribute to solving problems.

By promoting such new-type transport services and co-creation with local communities as an integrated effort, we would like to continue to promote efforts to solve local transport problems by utilizing new technologies, without considering local transport as a problem only for transport operators, and we would like to cooperate with a new council.

Then, I would like to ask the Bureau of Motor Vehicles to make an announcement on autonomous driving by the new transportation service.

Specialist Kobo, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism: This is Kobo from the Automobile Bureau, Ministry

Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity today.

From me, I will talk about autonomous driving. Today, due to time constraints, I will only talk about regional autonomous driving.

The current status and goals of autonomous driving technology are as you can see. For private vehicles, Level 3 has been achieved, and for mobile services, Level 4 was achieved in Eiheiji-cho in May this year, as I believe you have heard from various ministries and agencies.

In the future, the relevant ministries and agencies are working together to accelerate Level 4 and expand and spread autonomous transportation services nationwide.

I would like to omit the details as I have heard from the relevant ministries and agencies, but the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism is looking at the safety aspects of vehicles, and on March 30 this year, we approved Eiheiji-cho vehicles as Level 4 vehicles that do not require a driver. After that, we started the service on May 21 after Mr. National Police Agency's approval for specific automatic verification test. Not only in Eiheiji-cho, but also in various parts of the country, autonomous is being carried out. The current situation is that various kinds of verification test are being carried out in various areas of the country by various companies using various vehicles in various driving spaces.

Such verification test have been conducted in various parts of Japan, and I am aware that various issues are emerging.

We recognize that there are three major challenges.

First, with regard to improving safety, I recognize that one major issue is not only vehicle technology, but also in what direction the vehicles will run, including infrastructure and roads, and in what way safety will be ensured in total.

The second is understanding of the local community. How do we operate self-driving cars? Under the premise of observing traffic rules, how do we operate cars to gain the understanding of the local community? We recognize that social acceptability is also an extremely important issue.

Third, in order to operate self-driving cars in a sustainable manner, how to ensure profitability and profitability is a major challenge. As in Level 4 self-driving, there is an idea to increase the number of n as much as possible in a situation where one to-n monitoring is possible. Of course, there is an idea to evaluate what kind of social benefits there are by operating self-driving cars, not just self-driving cars, but I believe that a business model has not been established yet.

With regard to these issues, we recognize that there is still very little driving experience. I believe that there are many verification test operations that end in a single trip, so the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism is providing support to local governments engaged in demonstration projects with the aim of finding and solving issues by driving self-driving cars for as long as possible.

As for the outline of the implementation, since last fiscal year we have been supporting autonomous driving by local governments, and last year we mainly supported four demonstration projects.

For this fiscal year, we are planning to significantly expand the supported areas and develop demonstration projects in various parts of the country, and currently the deadline for public recruitment is tomorrow.

That's all from me.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Mr. Suda, please.

Member Suda: This is Suda from University.

Thank you very much for giving me a very meaningful talk today.

As I am involved in various matters in various capacities, I have refrained from commenting on individual matters because I am deeply involved in the discussions of Professor Nakamura, Mr. Yamamoto, and other ministries and agencies. However, I would like to share with you what I felt at the end of my talk. As shown in the diagram of the progress of the level of autonomous driving during the second phase of SIP, which separates the discussions of owner cars, service cars, and public transportation, I thought it was quite important to talk about how to merge the discussions of redesigning public transportation and owner cars, or how to sort them well.

Mr. Nakamura is talking more about public transportation, and according to Mr. Yamamoto, the main focus is on owner-driven cars. According to the government office, Mr. Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications is talking more about owner-driven cars. He is talking about service cars, but in the end, when infrastructure coordination is carried out, owner-driven cars must be considered. This is also the case with data linkage. I thought it might be necessary to sort things out well.

One more question. Today may be the last day of the hearing, but I thought that the people concerned did not mention public transport operators including railways, the Road Traffic Information Center mentioned earlier by Mr. Yamamoto, or ETC-related matters, so I was wondering how they would incorporate these matters.

That is all from me. I would like to make a comment.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, Thank you.

How do you like it?

Hidaka: The new mobility may be new to Japan, but as you all know, similar cars are being implemented in regions overseas, including China and the US. Eiheiji Temple is a very useful example in Japan, but there are places overseas that are already running. In particular, when it comes to demand, since around 2013, there have been various trial-and-error efforts on what to do, how to connect with existing buses and subways, and how to get in, and I believe there have been various advances during the novel coronavirus period, so I believe that once overseas examples, past examples, and the current situation will be very useful in considering this roadmap.

As for the data part, I believe that various surveys have been conducted by the Digi Agency, METI, and IPA. There are many things we have learned from overseas on how to coordinate user demand and mobility supply, and how to link mobility, and some of them have already done so. I do not know whether these things are in this roadmap or in SIP, but I hope we can refer to them, and I hope we can contribute to them.

That's all.

Murakami Director-General: Thank you so much for your time.

Next time, for the study meeting on the 9th, I would like to show you something in advance that will be the basis of the materials on the day.

The purpose of the study group this time is not to draw a conclusion on each item, but to organize the items to be discussed. I was wondering how I could make a list of the initiatives of each ministry that you explained today. It is not yet in the form of a roadmap, but I would like to respect them and make sure that they are included properly. In addition, among the discussions that have come up so far, there are some that have made specific progress, some that are weak, and some that are standard but do not come out as usual. The goal of the study group is to have a good balance between these points and to make it clear that these are important items to consider. If you discuss openly, the final summary at the next study group will be entrusted to Professor Ishida at the end, but from such a point of view, we will discuss this and that, and we did not have much time to ask questions to each ministry today. If there are any questions that we would like to ask again at this meeting, we will introduce each ministry. If there are any questions, please do not hesitate to ask us.

That's all.

Chairman Ishida: Thank you very much, .

Today, I received a report from each ministry, and I felt that the level of concreteness of the report has increased significantly. Also, as I did today, I wonder where we will really start. Also, there was a talk that we need to think seriously about the demand side in order to cheer up everyone, and I think today's results were very significant.

All I have to do is to find the head of the list, but I still think it will be a lot of work. I hope that the secretariat will do its best, and the committee members will also have no time today, so I would appreciate it very much if you could convey such ideas to the secretariat, and I would be happy to do so. Thank you for your kind cooperation.

Thank you.

Director Asayama: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your valuable comments today.

As Director-General told me, the next meeting is scheduled for August 9 at 15:00, so I would like to see something in advance.

Some of the ministries and agencies suddenly joined us today, but since this is an important time for compiling the report, I would like to consult with you in various ways, and if possible, I would like you to join us at the final meeting to help us continue our discussions.

Thank you for coming today.