My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group (3rd)

Overview

Date and Time: Thursday, March 17, 2022 (2022) from 13:00 to 14:30
Location: Online
Agenda:
1. Opening
2. Proceedings
  1. Examination of Total Design for Realization of User-oriented public service
  2. Utilization of My Number System
3. Adjournment

Materials

References

Reference: Holding of My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Groups (PDF / 112 kb)

Minutes

Date

Thursday, March 17, 2022 (2022) from 1:00 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.

Location

Online Meetings

Attendees

MAKISHIMA Karen (Minister for Digital Transformation)
Koichi Akaishi (Chief Officer for Digital Policy)
Kazuto Ataka (Professor, Faculty of Environmental Information, Keio University / CSO, Yahoo Japan Corporation)
Naoki Ota (Representative Director of New Stories Co., Ltd.)
Yohei Saito (Director and CTO of Future Corporation)
Masahiko Shoji (Professor, Faculty of Sociology, Musashi University)
Shigeki Morinobu, Senior Researcher, Institute for Policy Studies, The Tokyo Foundation
Hiroshi Esaki (Digital Agency, CA)
Sota MIZUSHIMA (Digital Agency CPO)
Taiichiro Tomiyasu (Director-General of Digital Agency)
Masanori Kusunoki (Director-General of Digital Agency)
Hirotami KIKKAWA (Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Director-General of Local Administration Bureau)
Tetsutaro Uehara (Professor, Faculty of Information Science and Engineering, Ritsumeikan University) * You may not attend the meeting due to personal reasons.
Otani Kazuko (Executive Officer, General Manager of Legal Department, The Japan Research Institute
Shuji Goto (President and Representative Director, area Information Technology Laboratory Co., Ltd.
Joji Shishido (Professor, Graduate School of Law and Politics, The University of Tokyo) * You may not attend the meeting due to personal reasons
Akiko Sugawara (Managing Director and Head of Policy Planning, Keizai Doyukai)

Minutes

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. Well, since it's past the scheduled time, we will now hold the third "Working Group on Drastic Improvement of My Number System and Central and Local Digital infrastructure."

Thank you very much for taking the time to attend.

I, Mr. Kimura, Counselor of Digital Agency, will be the moderator of this meeting. Thank you very much.

At the beginning, the Secretariat will inform you that today's meeting will be held online and will be open to the press. We would like to inform you that the press who wanted to attend the meeting are attending the meeting online.

Members of this working group and special members should turn on the screen and turn on the sound only when they speak. Others should turn off the screen and mute the sound.

Today, expert members and observers from relevant ministries and agencies are also in attendance, and Minister Makishima is scheduled to attend from the middle of the meeting.

Now, I would like to begin the proceedings. First, Mr. Kusunoki Digital Agency, Director-General of the Policy Board, will give an explanation on Agenda 1. Next, I will give an explanation of the materials on Agenda 2. After that, I would like to hear the opinions of the members.

Then, Director Kusunoki, please explain the materials.

Director Kusunoki: I'm Kusunoki , based on Material 1, I would like to talk about the examination of total design toward the realization of user-oriented public service. Thank you.

Today, I would like to talk about the concept of public service experience from now on and the direction toward its realization.

First of all, in terms of the concept of experiencing public service, Priority plan, which was recently approved by the Cabinet in December, has set out to complete the process in 60 seconds using smartphone, launch public service in seven days, and cost the same as private sector. The immediate issue is how to realize this. I believe that it is necessary to consider infrastructure such as applications, data exchange platform for xxxx, networks, and clouds.

Regarding the utilization of information necessary to complete the procedure in 60 seconds, in the recent online application for the Special Fixed Amount benefit, it was a big problem that all the names, dates of birth, and other information of family members held by public authorities were entered by hand. This was originally because Mynaportal was operated by the national government, and each basic resident register was managed by each municipality, and it was a big problem that this was not connected well in the form of inter-agency cooperation. Conversely, for many procedures, if we can appropriately access the information held in local government, most of the information can be pre-filled, and in fact, paper applications are realized in the form of pre-printing. This is the first utilization of information held in local government. Second, I think it would be more advantageous if we could inquire about the information held by other organizations.

An advanced example of utilizing information in local government is, for example, One-Stop Counter in Kitami City, where resident information is utilized to ensure that it is not leaked, not written, and not passed around. There is a common database for comprehensively utilizing such information in the contact center service, and rules within the agency are also developed, and citizen data is utilized and acquired in the front system.

If we can realize this, for example, when we consider an event such as the birth of a child, where Notification A, Procedure B, and Procedure C had to be handled at separate windows until now, I believe that it will be possible to receive guidance on the whole and complete a series of procedures together with a minimum amount of input through pre-display. If so, I believe we will be able to see that the administrative proceduer can be completed in 60 seconds.

In order to realize this, first of all, how will we utilize the information we have in each local government? Until now, it has been difficult to bring the information from individual systems in each local government to the front service. But how will we realize this?

In such a case, the front service has already made an application to each local government, but if we use this as an API to use information in local government and build a mechanism to transfer data from the local government side to the front service, I believe that the information held in local government can be used for services for residents as an extension of cooperation within the agency.

In order to achieve this, systems have been developed vertically in each municipality, but in order to facilitate the introduction and horizontal deployment of advanced resident services and applications in the future, if we develop a common infrastructure for data utilization across municipalities, firmly standardize data, firmly comply with the standard specifications for core business applications that we are promoting, and create a state in which these are on the common foundation of Government Cloud, I believe that the things I just explained can be achieved properly.

Furthermore, in terms of how to utilize the information held by other institutions, for example, in the case of a birth certificate, a doctor will issue a certificate, and in the case of a change of schools or jobs, it is necessary to cooperate and utilize information across institutions.

So far, in terms of the information linkages between public authorities, we have been thinking mainly about the efficiency of administrative operation on the left, but going forward, it will be important to consider what kind of things should be realized for the convenience of the people, how to realize the omission of attached documents, the simplification of procedures, and the provision of thorough guidance in accordance with life events.

As expected, the business environment is changing significantly. In private sector, it is becoming more and more common to use one's own information for various services. There has also been significant progress in data collaboration across services, such as retrieving information from financial institutions using PFM.

In addition, eKYC has also spread widely, and the means to receive identity verification online has expanded. In addition, public authorities has realized an environment in which income and other data are transferred online on the basis of My Number System over the past few years.

In light of this, it is necessary to consider how to respond to the diverse needs of individuals regarding the use of their own information.

Looking at the materials submitted by the experts in the first round, I believe that there is a way of thinking that the authority and responsibility for handling data should be appropriately and flexibly distributed to each country and law based on each local governments. There is a way of thinking that individuals should be actively involved in realizing the value of the public-private co-creation ecosystem. In addition, I believe that the public-private co-creation ecosystem can be considered as a device for simultaneously and harmoniously realizing freedom from data, freedom to data, and freedom by data. Committee Member Shishido proposed that implementation should be used as a mechanism to enhance the controllability of personal data by the individual as an inner fact of basic data rights. In addition, Committee Member Uehara also commented that it is important to realize the principle of individual participation.

In light of this, in addition to information linkages between public authorities, convenience for the people in particular, in this context, the use of certificates issued by the administration for administrative procedures, and how to use certificates issued by private sector, such as birth certificates and certificates of employment at the workplace, for example, for administrative procedures, should be dealt with in cooperation with private sector. I believe that there is room to consider this for convenience for the people, even to the extent that they have not used My Number.

For example, in various administrative procedures, information and attached documents held by private sector institutions are required. In many procedures, including childbirth, death, childcare certification, school transfer due to moving, job change, national certification, and license application, etc., the certificate issued by private sector is processed as public authorities. I think it is necessary to consider how to digitalization what can only be done on paper at present.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .
Next, I would like to explain about agenda 2.

This is digital society toward the realization of Priority plan, which was approved by the Cabinet at the end of last year. What is shown here is our approach to considering the expansion of information linkages in My Number System. Premised on meeting the goal of total design, we will consider the use of My Number and the scope of information linkages from the perspective of the people, for example, for the people to prove their own information and rights, based on the results of the survey on administrative procedures that we have conducted for each ministry and agency last year. I believe that you have already been guided to this page, but we will proceed with preparations so that we can submit a bill to the ordinary Diet session next year.

The Secretariat summarizes various proposals related to My Number and the government's efforts to date.

First of all, based on the National Strategic Special Zones, there were proposals from several local government regarding My Number, and in some cases, there may be proposals regarding My Number Card. As for Aizuwakamatsu City, Tsukuba City, Kaga City, and Kibichuo-cho, there are materials in the back, so I will introduce them there.

First of all, Sendai City has proposed the use of My Number, which will lead to career management, such as convenience for side business management and certification training completion history, for workers who work hours.

Mr. Odawara has proposed the use of My Number to promote evacuation guidance in the event of disasters, home care patient monitoring, and energy saving by linking usage fee data such as electricity, gas, and water and My Number.

Mr. Yamaguchi proposed that we use My Number to provide information on monitoring, nursing care, and other matters in order to support evacuation activities in the event of disasters and medical care in normal times.

In addition, the government has been working to expand the use of My Number in national certification and other digitalization. I will explain this later.

First of all, Mr. Aizu-Wakamatsu has made a proposal to enable the use of My Number in a wide range of fields based on the person's opt-in. To make this possible, for example, as the direction of regulatory reform, as written in the blue box, it is a proposal to add a provision to the current law.

The next page is from Tsukuba-shi. With the consent of the individual, we have also received suggestions such as linking personal health medical care data distributed in local government, etc. with My Number, returning the linked information to the individual, and making it available at hospitals and pharmacies.

Next, Mr. Kakaichi proposed that we would like to use the My Number in order to provide support according to the status of vulnerable road users such as the elderly, the disabled, and children who do not have a means of transportation such as a private car and the frequency of use of transportation, for example, in order to link with information on the return of licenses. Although it is not listed in the materials, we also received a proposal that we would like to use the My Number in education to prevent bullying, abuse, and poverty among children.

On the next page, Mr. Kibichuo-cho's use cases is a proposal to realize a monitoring for children and a friendly Maternal and Child Health society by utilizing monitoring information, health examination results, and other data through cooperation between the Kibi PHR and My Number at the bottom for children's monitoring and development support.

The above is the content of the proposal related to the special district.

Next, in regard to the introduction of the Government's efforts thus far, regarding national certification and other digitalization, the My Number Law was revised in the digital reform Act last year, enabling the use of My Number and information linkages for 32 national certification related to tax and social security. Along with this, we are currently constructing a system for data connections related to My Number.

In addition, we are investigating the situation in other national certification and so on. For example, among the qualifications of more than 1 million people, there are various qualifications in national certification and so on other than the 32 that were taken last year, such as cooks, hairdressers, small boat pilots, and barbers, although the number is less than 1 million. Those with a large number of qualifications, here, only those with more than 100,000 people are listed. The underlined items are treated.

At the bottom of the document, the Special Committee of the Central Council for Education in Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (MEXT) summarizes teacher qualifications. Here, it is mentioned that it is necessary to consider the ideal way of ID, including My Number, in teacher qualifications.

In this document, we have listed examples of public and private procedures that have been confirmed in Digital Agency in the study of one stop services such as administrative procedures. As Director-General KUSUNOKI introduced earlier, various procedures, both public and private, are required for life events such as moving, childcare, nursing care, death, and inheritance. Documents and certificates issued by public authorities are required for these procedures.

Next, based on the proposals and efforts made so far, I would like to ask the members of the Working Group to discuss these matters today.

Is there any perspective that should be considered regarding the proposal on My Number System from local government? Also, based on the results of the survey conducted last year, is there any possibility that information linkages between public authorities using My Number could be used in, for example, administrative operation? In terms of administrative work related to national certification, although it is not listed in the previous materials because it is less than 100,000 people, I would like to ask you to discuss whether My Number can be used for administrative scriveners who are involved in administrative procedures such as social security and disasters, small boat pilots who have many qualifications, teachers I introduced earlier, administrative work related to residence procedures for foreign nationals, and administrative work related to disasters such as Disaster Condolence Grants for the Bereaved, which are not currently used.

I would also like to hear your opinion on the use of My Number and information linkages, which are required to further promote one stop services such as administrative procedures.

As for other matters to be considered, when considering the Total Design under consideration, which I explained separately, I would like to hear your opinion on whether it is necessary to consider again the use of the conventional My Number and the concept of information linkages.

Today, I would like to have a discussion with the members from the above perspective.

For reference, the provisions of the My Number Act are attached from the following pages.

That's all for the material.

Then, I would like to ask the members and special members for their opinions on Agenda 1 and 2, including the content of the materials.

I will appoint you, so if you wish to speak, please let me know by the show of hands function.

Then, Mr. Shoji, may I ask you a favor?

Shoji Member: Thank you for your explanation, .
Now, I'd like to make a few remarks.

First of all, regarding the total design that Mr. Kusunoki explained, I am not sure if it was included in the current agenda, but I am concerned about the relationship with standardization and commonality, which I am deeply involved in. The standardization that we are promoting now is based on existing systems that are already in operation, so it is true that DX is completely lacking in points, and I hope that we can organize the discussion in this way. However, it is a very big job for 1,700 local government to standardize 20 systems and put them on the cloud.

As you have been saying, whether we can make it in time by the end of fiscal 2025 is quite difficult, so if this move is added, I think everyone involved will be in a lot of trouble. It is very bad that we have to wait for the implementation of standardization until something new is decided, or we have to wait and see how it goes, so I think it is very bad that we have to wait and see how it goes. So, regarding standardization, I would like to ask you to run with the specifications that will be finalized this summer, and for the implementation of Total Design, please proceed with trial implementation or advance implementation from the local government that is ready, or from the local government that is ready, and ask all the local government to do as I have been saying by the end of fiscal 2013, and request all the implementation of Total Design as essential after that. First of all, I would like to ask you to organize.

As for the My Number, I myself am somewhat cautious about expanding the scope of use from the three fields of social security, tax, and disaster. If anything, I think that thorough use of the My Number in those three fields should be accelerated. I filed my final tax return the other day, but I don't think that the utilization of the My Number in the three fields has been completed with that. I think there is still room for it.

In addition, as I have been saying for some time, the people's trust in the management and use of information by the Government is not high. We should also work to make the Government more transparent by adding a mechanism to check one's information from Mynaportal and a function to check the history of reference by the administration. Otherwise, I believe that the expansion of the scope of use will not be accepted.

If the scope of use is to be expanded, I believe that it should not be a matter of picking and choosing among the proposals made by local government, but should be a matter of implementing measures that are equivalent to or apply to the realization of a fair and just society in My Number System, which has set forth extremely lofty or high objectives and policies, or should be a matter of setting forth major policies and major objectives and adopting those that apply to them.

Online confirmation of qualifications is unlikely to be disadvantageous to individuals, so I think it is good if the government can properly control it. Even if it is done, I think it is necessary to have a policy to expand it for this purpose.

As you explained about local government's proposal, I believe it is partly a proposal by My Number Card, so I would like to ask you to sort it out a bit and proceed with it within the scope that is more or less beneficial to the individual, rather than because local government wants to do so or because a company wants to do so.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. . Mr. Kusunoki, do you have any comments?

Director Kusunoki: I'm Kusunoki , you asked about the relationship between standardization and commonality. With regard to this point, basically, when the total design was decided through discussion at the end of 2020, it was a picture that it would not be possible to realize it unless we fully transition to a new foundation, including a cooperation foundation, to some extent. However, as I proposed today, it will be technically quite easy to provide it sequentially from the organizations that are ready.

In addition to the 20 services that are currently being standardized, there are discussions on data requirements, cooperation requirements, and common functions for these 20 services. In addition, assuming such a standard system, I believe that the ideal form of the convenience store Issue and the application management system will be discussed in the future, and I believe that it will be extremely important to proceed with the plan in a way that is not too difficult for local government.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Next, Mr. Ataka, nice to meet you.

Ataka member: I'm Ataka . Thank you for your very important summary.

There are five or six points. First of all, it is really wonderful that you have been holding up the idea of completing 60 seconds on a smartphone for a long time, but in the end, I think the meaning is that the basic policy is to make it into software so that all administrative procedures are completed on a smartphone. In addition, I think it is necessary to clarify that it is necessary to stop using paper as the original, and that the person who comes to the counter is a person who supports it to some extent, and that it is not necessary to make it into software in order to support the counter, but to make it into software and support the counter.

My father-in-law died about two weeks ago, and it was very difficult, but there were some things that I learned after doing it. Things that are linked are performed individually, and the same authentication, etc. is performed many times, and there is a tendency that they are not performed simultaneously in parallel. Basically, I want you to do so because you can process and make a digitalization at once in parallel, and I don't know the whole picture of the necessary procedures, so I should do something like doing it digitally like a checklist, and after I finish, I should follow the check. I think there should be a core process or set page for each purpose.

Of course, the problem behind this is only the combination, so I think it is necessary to ensure that modules are loosely coupled and vendor-independent and that internal API specifications are organized, rather than creating them for specific purposes like the Palace of Versailles.

Second, what I have gradually come to understand in connection with the death procedures this time is that everything is tied to the land, whether it is the family registry or the resident record. It is extremely difficult to do this unless the unit is transferred from the family registry to the person or the individual. It will be very confusing for people like us who live a nomadic life, and the moment to transfer the unit from the family registry to the individual has come. There is no need to eliminate the family registry, but I think it is quite important to make a change so that the individual is the center of the resident record.

When I look at the family registry transcript, which is very disgusting, I find a lot of things that I don't need to know. I am extremely doubtful that it is true that such things are found every time, and I think that it is necessary to change at once on this occasion.

In addition, in the future, I think we will enter an era in which everyone will use 300 and 500 IDs and passwords, and we will be forced to accept physical wallets. Considering that it will become apparent within three to five years, I think it is better to keep that in mind now.

In addition, due to land, for example, there is a ward in Meguro where you cannot obtain a copy of the family registry if you leave the land, but I think it is better not to allow such exceptions at all.

The third problem is from the perspective of an elderly person. In any case, authentication is extremely troublesome. It is common for an 85-year-old person to have no driver's license, passport, or My Number Card. At that time, he or she cannot prove himself or herself at all. In addition to thoroughly educating people about the problem of My Number Card, that is, the problem of not being able to prove who he or she is, it is extremely important to thoroughly implement personal authentication by entering the current four digit password and something very long, so that multiple biometric authentication can be combined and substituted. It is extremely troublesome that biometric authentication is not combined, and in the end, it has become a serious problem that nothing will progress unless a child or something is attached. I think it is better to fix this immediately.

This is the fourth point. This is connected to what Mr. Shoji said earlier, but it is too stupid to make these things in each local government. So, I think it is originally correct to make a white label-like thing that can be used in each local government and can be tuned for each local government. I think it would be better to take the lead in Digital Agency and make it right away.

The fifth is the story of the national certification earlier, and this is a very good flow, and it is better to be able to ride not only the national certification but also semi-qualifications such as IPA and private sector qualifications. Since qualifications only need to be checked, I think it is important to be able to automatically enter the national certification if it is linked to the My Number, and to be able to enter the parts that have not been linked to the My Number at the same time by the organization in charge of the individual qualifications.

Finally, my sixth point is from the perspective of digital disaster risk management. I was very worried about the huge earthquake that occurred last night, but in such a case, I think it is important to make sure that the person's personal location information is connected properly, even if it is opt-in, and that things that can be rescued in an emergency are included in the scope from the beginning. It is true that another massive disaster could occur at any time, and I would be happy if you could consider this.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Then, Dr. Ohtani, please.

Otani Special Member: .

I have just heard an explanation about Total Design. If personal data certificates issued by institutions other than local government and public authorities are linked to My Number, the number of situations in which My Number is used will increase rapidly, and I believe that this will lead to more opportunities for people to feel the convenience of My Number.

On the other hand, if the amount of information on a life event basis linked to the My Number increases, I think that information linking the My Number and the private sector will overflow, including personal data organizations. I think that itself is unavoidable, but in the first place, as the design philosophy of the system, in order to protect the privacy of users, it is necessary to ensure that a distributed management mechanism is thoroughly implemented so that the personal data is not indiscriminately withdrawn using the My Number as a key, and to not forget that institutional security measures have been taken at the same time.

The fact that the scope of use is limited in the current My Number System and the destinations are limited and listed by ministerial ordinance is also a concern that information about personal data will be aggregated using the My Number as a key and profiling will be possible in a form that individuals do not want.

In the future, even if we consider making a bold change to the scheme so that the My Number can be provided to third parties from the user himself / herself to the personal data where he / she wishes to be provided, and the scheme can be flexibly allowed to be linked to regions other than the My Number, I think it will be necessary to develop an architecture to ensure that the My Number provided will not be used for other purposes in a form that the user does not want.

In addition, it is necessary to indicate the purpose of use necessary to obtain the consent of the users themselves, which is the starting point, and it is also necessary to clarify the scope of consent for the users themselves, and even if the consent of the users themselves is obtained, I believe that there may be unacceptable data connections. I believe that it is also necessary to take measures such as identifying these.

As has been the case with Issue, I believe it is necessary to identify multiple use cases for personal life events, carefully discuss Issue for privacy as I have mentioned, and discuss the architecture and systems.

That's all from me.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Then, Mr. Mori, may I ask you a question?

Makoto Mori Member: Thank you very much. I'm Makoto Mori. I'd like to make a comment.

I think it is very good to proceed with the study from the perspective of promoting the convenience of the people. In that case, there were various explanations from the perspective of making administrative procedures more convenient, but I would like you to consider the use of numbers from the perspective of providing various policies that are highly convenient for the people. In other words, it is a study of the policy field that started with what the information is collected for.

To be specific, this is written in the summary of the Action Plan for Digital Government held at the Prime Minister's Office with you two years ago. There is a phrase "construction of a digital safety net." It says that accurate income information is taken by number, and based on that, effective and efficient social security is provided. By doing so, a "digital safety net" suitable for the digital age is constructed. To be specific, it says that freelancers and gig workers, who are increasing with the spread of Reform of Working Practices and IT, can register their contract information with Mynaportal, prepare for future problems, and obtain their income information.

Regarding the acquisition of income information, the working summary says that we will also consider a mechanism to acquire income information of people working at an intermediary platform via a platform.

This year, I also implemented e-Tax. From this year, regarding Benefit-Your-Locality Hometown Tax, for example, Sato-Furu, a system has been established in which information can be obtained from platformers via Mynaportal, and can be directly linked to e-Tax. In other words, there is a flow of platformers, individuals, and the government. I believe this is a very big thing, and I would like you to consider a mechanism in which income for gig workers can be obtained via an intermediary platformer.

Another is that as the number of dual-income families increases, there are various benefits and social security benefits, but I think that the number of cases in which benefits are considered based on household income will increase in the future. There was a problem that the 100,000 yen benefit should be considered based on household income. Therefore, I would like to say that we would like to consider a system in which households can grasp the combined income by My Number.

I would like to briefly make one more point. As you have just explained, there are individuals between the private and public sectors. You said today that in order to promote cooperation, it is necessary to obtain the consent of the person in question, but I believe that the utilization of Mynaportal is one of the major keys, so I would like to see more publicity on the word "Mynaportal." Instead of that, there is always a portal site around My Number and My Number Card, which is an information hub. From there, with my consent, information linkages, as I mentioned earlier, can obtain information from, for example, platformers, and can cooperate with private sector, such as banks and securities companies. I would like to see more publicity and wider dissemination of the utilization and functions of Mynaportal.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Then, Mr. Uehara, please go ahead.

UEHARA, Special Member: I would like to speak while taking into account local government's position.

First of all, I would like to add a little to what Mr. Shoji said. Originally, when My Number System was created, it was not expanded from the areas of tax, social security, and disasters, so it was possible to protect a certain kind of privacy philosophy. In fact, in practice, local government has been working hard to protect it. This should have been a major guarantee for security. Therefore, I believe that careful discussion is necessary to collapse this area.

In particular, this time, when we are riding on a standard system like Government Cloud, the roles that local government has and the roles that the country has will be seen to be mixed, which may cause unnecessary anxiety among the people. It is strange that this system deviates too much from the original system design, so I would like you to be careful about that.

However, I believe that what I am trying to do is quite right, and in particular, I am fully in favor of using system standardization and other measures well to make more use of information in local government. I think it is very good to use a personal identification system such as the Public Personal Authentication created in My Number System at that time and a digital identification system, but I think it is a little too risky to use the My Number casually as a data to identify who I am. Now, I am handing out My Number Card to avoid doing that, and the biggest key is that the information exchanged in My Number Card is not the My Number, so I would like you not to forget that.

In the word "utilization of My Number System," the term "utilization of My Number" has been used somewhat confusingly, and the purpose and the means have been somewhat confused. The purpose is to contribute to the so-called convenience of the people, so whether or not to use the number My Number casually for that purpose is because technology is so advanced now, and there are so many ways to use the number My Number casually. Therefore, I think it is better to design the number My Number based on the fact that the circumstances have changed considerably compared to the time when My Number System was established or the Juki Net system was established.

Another thing I would like to say is that while Dr. Shoji mentioned that the standardization of the local government system is progressing, another thing that I am concerned about is the division of roles between the Digital Agency, which prepares the Government Cloud, the J-LIS, which is in charge of the Juki Net system and has the personal identification system, and each local government. I think this is also a problem in terms of the law, but I have to check it every time I proceed with this.

One way of thinking about this is that in the same way that Digital Agency uses the mechanism prepared by the J-LIS, local government is the main entity and Government Cloud is the subordinate, or in a sense, Government Cloud is entrusted with the work. Otherwise, information was somehow handed over to the government. Therefore, in order to avoid the situation where it is seen as a group within the government, I believe that it will be strange if we do not make it a mechanism in which local government still has the information and Government Cloud just happens to have it. Government Cloud local government

Finally, I would like to thank you for taking up the topic of individual participation. I believe that what is very important there is the fact that Mynaportal is now able to refer to self-information. As Mr. Shoji said, this mechanism is really important in the sense of ensuring transparency, and I understand that it was originally influenced by the mechanism of X-Road in Estonia.

If we are to maintain this mechanism, first of all, we must consider a mechanism in which the results can be properly reflected in information linkages within the so-called Mynaportal system. This can be a constraint in terms of design. I don't think we should put too much brake on it, but what is necessary as a system for this purpose is, in terms of legal development, in particular, the connection between the world of the My Number and the world of the Public Personal Authentication, and the connection with what a certain local government has, I feel that unless we properly sort out the extent to which there are legal obstacles, progress will not be made.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Then, Mr. Ohta, would you please?

Mr. Ohta: I have submitted Handout 3, and I would like to talk about it in accordance with it.

The agenda of today's meeting is the utilization of number systems and administrative information systems. To take a step back, it is well known that Japan is the last country to use number systems and administrative information systems. As other members have said, the scope of use varies greatly depending on the way of thinking about privacy. However, there is sufficient validation and organization of what can be done with number systems and administrative information systems in each country.

That is why I would not say it is easy, but in terms of function, it is possible to connect vertically by so-called lifetime.

The other is to create services by connecting information horizontally, including private sector.

Finally, we are creating services using three functions, such as application, which can be performed by push instead of pull. However, the scope of use is quite different. For example, in Germany, the service can be used only in the tax field. In addition, some countries use it to make social security benefits efficient, or use it for social security-related information services, qualifications, etc. The largest is to use it for a wide range of services, such as inheritance and moving, including private sector. There are three stages.

It is significant that the Committee for Drastic Improvement is doing something that is relatively noticeable, but I think it is necessary to ask whether we are doing what we should do from a panoramic perspective.

I would like to make some proposals in these three areas. As I have mentioned many times, in the area of taxation, I believe that progress is being made in accurate income recognition and tax collection. However, compared with other countries, one major area in which we are not doing this is tax credits with benefits, or so-called negative income taxes. Based on income information, for example, unemployment benefits or child allowances, etc., can be provided without requiring the individual to apply for them. Functionally, this is equivalent to the push type of C, but the prolonged spread of the novel coronavirus has made it even more necessary.

This is a regular payment, the distribution of urgent items such as the novel coronavirus will be faster, there will be no need to spend thousands of yen for office expenses to provide 10,000 yen or 5,000 yen, and there will be no omissions. Although it is a considerable amount of physical labor, I would like to emphasize again that this is a historic project that should be carried out at a time when digital technology has become a national agenda and Digital Agency has been established.

My second question is about social security. There are two points. The first is the information provision network system. Due to problems, its operation was considerably delayed, and it did not work very much for the first three years. Now, the scope of cooperation has expanded, including pensions information, and hundreds of millions of cases are processed annually, so for example, the same number of attached documents are missing, but it is not well known. There is still room for it to be done, but it is not well known, so I think it is better to publicize that we are doing a good job.

As for the remaining Issue, the benefits for the people and business operators are increasing, but the administrative side has not made much efficiency yet. In short, paper and digital office work are being done in parallel, which is a double work. There is still room here, and I think that is why Digital Agency is worth doing in cooperation with local government.

Another major area is the use of medical care information, such as medical examination information, examination information, and medication information, to reduce costs and prevent duplicate prescriptions. This validation has been implemented overseas, but there is still room for it to be implemented, and I believe it will have an impact of more than one trillion yen. The conventional use of the My Number system still has a significant impact on taxes, social security, and disasters, so I think it is important to focus on such major targets and work on them. This is my second point.

The third point is about a wide range of services. As I mentioned earlier, there are vertical one stop services for life events such as inheritance and relocation, and horizontal cooperation that is used for administrative data in the welfare mobility in private sector, for example, for people requiring long-term care. As I mentioned earlier, the first thing I would like to confirm is that only a very limited number of countries, in other words, large governments, use such advanced numbers and create services mainly by the government.

Other governments do not use such administrative data to create a wide range of services. On the next page, I would like to ask what the situation is in Japan, which is a medium-sized government. At present, the use of Mynaportal is unfortunately extremely sluggish, and the self-information acquisition API, which allows private sector to extract data from Mynaportal, is an epoch-making function, but it is not used very much.

My proposal for the third area is not to create convenient services under the leadership of the government. Instead, private sector will basically use administrative data within the scope of the person's use. If the government can no longer issue such information, I think it would be good to use the residence information of various places, such as a post office, for the four types of information, because the information may be more fresh.

For example, private sector's health information service for mothers and children is already based on such a concept. There was no consensus on the scope of use at first, and Digital Agency has a lot to do, so I think it is better not to spread your hands like a chicken, as Mr. Shoji said.

However, while private sector is using convenient services, if it is possible to use the information that the government has under various agreements, it will be possible to use it. If we create a public mesh based on this idea or set requirements for total design, we will be able to do various things. We will promise to do something, and create an ambitious system even though there is still much to do in taxes and social security. This seems to be a good idea, but I think it is quite risky, considering the track record so far, the consensus when the system was established, and the way of thinking about privacy.

The last point is that there are still more things to do. To put it bluntly, we can make a visualization based on the utilization rate and satisfaction level, but we haven't made a reservation yet.

As usual, it will be announced that how many percent of the procedures have been made online, but it is not at all clear how many people are actually using them and how satisfied they are. I participated in this as a member, but it is written that visualization will be made in Priority plan, which was decided by the Cabinet after the digital society Concept Conference, so I would like you to do this.

Regarding this, I understand that the utilization and satisfaction rate are probably low, but I don't think it is necessary to be pessimistic or to think about it and not do it forever. If you look at the Tokyo Metropolitan Government, Tokyo Metropolitan Government is an administrative DX called New Metropolitan Government, and it makes a visualization by comparing the utilization and satisfaction rate with five overseas cities.

Just last month, we announced the second round of fixed-point observations. If I were to speak only about the figures, the average satisfaction rate for the five overseas cities is 63%, and 25% for Tokyo, which is quite a bit lower. However, what is important is not the absolute values but the data, so I believe that the government can do the usual things while focusing on large fields and carefully observing that they are being used properly and that they are also being satisfied. I also believe that the results have been shown in Tokyo and elsewhere, so I would like to see the number system and the convenience of using the administrative information system in large fields.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Next, Mr. Saito, please.

Saito Member: My name is Saito . Thank you for your explanation. I would like to make two main points.

My first question is about Total Design. In 2020 and the year before last, the working group discussed the direction of Total Design, and one point was discussed. The idea of quickly providing services that contribute to local government by copying data stored in public service in a snapshot manner was incorporated into Total Design at that time, and from that perspective, I would like to see Total Design realized quickly.

Regarding the point on page 11, which is very closely related to the standardization of the so-called local government system, as Mr. Shoji said, I would like to share my view on this. Since the standardization of the local government system is an extremely large initiative to standardize information systems covering more than 1,700 local government, in a sense, it is not a matter of waiting for the completion of the system. I thought that the standardization of the local government system should be promoted, and that discussions should be carried out on a double-track basis, for example, to quickly provide public service that contributes to the services of residents, such as the disaster last night.

From such a perspective, I think standardization from various perspectives is being discussed in the standardization of the local government system. For example, in the part where data is extracted from the existing local government system as a snapshot, while standardizing the data model, data is copied as a snapshot on the Government Cloud using the data model that was first used, and public service using that data is quickly advanced on a trial basis with the preceding local government, and the best practices are deployed to other local government. By firmly creating such a flow, we will not wait for twenty twenty-five and create some new service from it, but we will be able to provide new services to residents while promoting the standardization of the local government system. From such a perspective, I thought it would be good if we could proceed with a double track.

From that perspective, I hope that we can proceed in a consistent manner with the standardization of the local government system, in terms of what procedures will be used to standardize what, and what outputs will be used in the process.

My other question is from the perspective of the utilization of My Number in Document 2. I basically agree with the idea of receiving advanced initiatives and ideas from various people in local government and increasing the scenes of utilization by specific means based on them. However, as each member said, I believe there are still many things that can be done from the perspectives of taxes, social security, and disaster risk management.

You mentioned the digital safety net in the Working Group two years ago, but there are various Issue in Digital Agency, such as benefits and special fixed amount benefit, and the Working Group was established based on reflection that we could not realize such a thing well. In that field, I believe it is extremely important to break away from the model of only data connections as described in Appendix 1, draw up a picture of what should be done from the top down based on the perspectives of the digital safety net and digital principles, and make efforts to realize it, so I hope that such perspectives will be included.

That's all from me.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Next, Mr. Sugawara, please.

Special member Sugawara: Thank you, .

There are a lot of issues, so I would like to make three points.

In order to promote the use of My Number System, I think the point is to improve convenience and the trust of the government. Regarding the latter, it is important to advance the former and at the same time to accumulate results. I would like to talk about convenience from the perspective of consumers.

There are examples of digital completion and convenience in public service in one local government, but in metropolitan areas such as the Tokyo metropolitan area, there are many cases in which the living area extends over more than one local government, so we would like to focus on improving the convenience of public service in more than one local government.

For example, if you apply for admission to a nursery school near your workplace and your local government is different from your home local government, you can submit an application to more than one local government, and the applications are processed based on the judgment of each local government. It takes time and effort. However, if you make it possible for a digital completion to process and process multiple applications by using My Number, or if you make it possible for a service that spans multiple local government applications, such as domicile exception for elderly staying in nursing care facility for long-term care, to be processed smoothly by using My Number, I think it is highly convenient and can achieve business efficiency.

The second point is that there is talk of providing 10,000 yen to all citizens and 5,000 yen to pensions residents this time, but I think it is important to make the strengthening of push-type administration one of the main features.

Digital safety nets are important, and tax credits with benefits using My Number, which Mr. Morinobu has been saying for a long time, I think this is a great opportunity. Third, due to various factors, the labor market has become more fluid and active than before, and we are entering an age of labor mobility, an environment in which employment is protected by society as a whole. In the future, I think we should consider making human resources and labor management more personal.

In the past, reforms were made such as the return of pensions substitution by companies and the expansion of pensions's portability. In the future, it will not be uncommon for individuals to work for multiple companies or work for multiple companies or multiple employment forms in their lifetime. In such a case, in order to prevent the procedures for taxes and social security from becoming extremely complicated, it would be more convenient for individuals to have a management mechanism that returns to the side business in Mynaportal, etc., and at the same time, it would be possible to achieve efficiency of administrative work. In order to establish My Number as the foundation of digital society, I think it is important to quickly build such a convenience mechanism.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Thank you, Mr. Goto.

Special Member: Thank you very much. I'm Goto. Nice to meet you.

I have been a staff member of Mitaka City, Tokyo Prefecture for 36 years. So, I have been understanding the basic local government of the site and the situation at the forefront of contact with residents to some extent. In that sense, I would like to say that I am in favor of the current total design, of course, but I would like to say that I am in a position to reinforce it.

Please refer to page 7 of Handout 1. It is introduced here as an advanced example already conducted in Kitami City. As Mr. Kusunoki explained, in local government, in the system called the backbone system, as shown in the red frame on the lower left side, system processing of various business operations is performed.

For example, it is possible to refer to the Basic Resident Register, the resident tax, and the National Health Insurance system, which are arranged vertically at each counter, online in a cross-sectional manner at the counter division in almost any local government. However, the functions of directly judging something using that data, or collecting data cross-sectionally and outputting something, are not currently structured in such a vertical manner.
Therefore, in the case of Kitami City, as mentioned above, we extract all data from each business system and create a common DB that combines them into one, and we exchange information in the form of a window support system with reference to it.

Speaking of this, it is relatively easy to create such a system, and it is possible to refer to and use data. There are advantages in that it costs relatively little and the period is short. On the other hand, all the data in the database, and in addition, all the data in all fields, will be integrated into one database. When we think about what will happen in the event of an accident, I think there are many parts that need to be carefully considered.

In that sense, in the middle of page 11, it says "local government Information Utilization API," and you draw a picture that information can be exchanged across local government using this. There is no large database of all the people in the country, so I am relieved, but I am in favor of creating such a system.

Therefore, as Mr. Ohtani said, we must pay serious attention to how personal information will be consolidated. What is important is to create a mechanism that allows access under appropriate access control, and to make copies of all data as few as possible. As Mr. Shoji said, local government is considering system standardization, and it is true that we are not at such a level. I am also participating in several review meetings, and I am strongly concerned about that. I would like to proceed while confirming that.

At the end of the second sentence of Material 1, there is a section on digitalization, such as various certificates and credentials, and a section on digitalization in the attached documents. I am in complete agreement with this, but of course, organization certification and certificates of expertise are required there, so I think it is necessary to draw a picture of how to create a mechanism for this and how to connect and utilize it.

I don't want to be judgmental, but I have one thing that I think is wonderful these days, so I would like to finish by mentioning it. I actually hurt my spinal cord in an accident 47 years ago when I was a student at a small university west of Mitaka. Since then, I have been in a wheel chair for 47 years. There is a physical disability card. Those who have this handbook for the disabled can receive a discount on transportation such as railways.

Until now, there has been an administrative process in which these notebooks are submitted one by one to the window of the transportation business operator and written down there. Recently, there has been an application called Mirairo App, which has a function to connect to Mynaportal as soon as possible. Mr. Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare seems to have supported it, but I have heard that it is actually available to more than 3,000 business operators.

In fact, I always drive my car when I travel, so I don't have many opportunities to use trains or buses, so I didn't know much about it until recently. However, I think that there are various ways to spread the basic idea while making such a thing a success case. For example, it may be used for student discounts, or so-called student discount. I hope that I can integrate it into efforts to expand good utilization cases.

That's all. Thank you very much.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Then, Mr. Shishido, please go ahead.

SHISHIDO Special Member: I am Shishido of the University of Tokyo, .

While we were lagging behind, I think many very important points were raised by the members. They basically agreed with the future vision drawn by data sharing platform, and most of them agreed with the direction of using more data to improve public services or the convenience of the people.

However, on the other hand, there were some concerns expressed about the history of the establishment of the My Number System in the first place and how to proceed within the current framework, which I share. I would like to share my views with you in relation to your previous comments as much as possible. There are roughly five points.

First of all, I would like you to look at page 12 of Handout 2. I believe that what is important here is the administrative work related to the residence procedures of foreign nationals indicated by the second arrow in the second part of 1. As Japanese society becomes more diverse and inclusive, not only people with nationality but also people with foreign nationality can enter and live as members of Japanese society over the long term, temporarily, or while moving. This will lead to the vitality and inclusiveness of Japanese society or digital society.

I think it is very important to consider not only what we should do for foreign nationals, but also how to realize social diversity, including for people with nationality, by thinking about foreign nationals, and how public service should be the foundation for that. I think it is important to consider the utilization of data sharing platform, My Number, or a mechanism related to My Number as such a foundation.

One point. In relation to this, I believe that the issue of the family registry regime that Mr. Ataka mentioned earlier is extremely serious. As you have already pointed out, it contains excessive information in terms of the fact that it is not a unit of households or individuals, and that it is a matter of proof of identity.

Also, above all, this is the primitive architecture that unwittingly regulation the possibilities of people's actions in a certain direction. Due to the extremely close connection between the family registry Law, the family registry Law, and the Family Law, there are many things that cannot be done or are distorted as the Family Law and the Family Law. Therefore, I believe that it is extremely important to change the way of public service to a system in which the person is authenticated on an individual basis as much as possible, whether or not the existing My Number is good, and to add the information of individuals and individuals when necessary to grasp them as a household, as a premise for this discussion.

With regard to your second question, I am also concerned about the concerns about personal data and privacy that were pointed out by many members. On the other hand, I believe that it would be better to analyze the issues in detail and carefully consider whether we can overcome them, whether we cannot overcome them, or whether we can obtain a national consensus on how to link them to the ideal image of data sharing platform.

I would like you to take a look at page 18 of Handout 1. Basically, in order to pursue the efficiency of information linkages and public service between public authorities, I think that My Number System has limited the necessary minimum or limited the field on the premise that it is possible to cooperate even if the people themselves do not like it.

On the other hand, the area of convenience of the people on the right side must be based on the person himself. If information utilization is based on the person himself, and it is information linkages, I believe that the function of implementation must be such that the person himself cooperates on his own will, and if he decides to stop the cooperation, he cuts it off, similar to the IT cooperation in private sector.

Mr. Kusunoki, Director-General of the Defense Agency of Japan, mentioned various memos that I submitted on a whim last time, and it was as far as I could see. I believe that the freedom to utilize data is in that way.

From this point of view, for example, when you make a information linkages about national certification, it is very appropriate that you want to make a information linkages yourself because you have a national certification. However, for example, when a national certification is taken away for some reason, it is not good if you cut the information linkages at that moment and act as if your national certification is valid.

If that is the case, even if it is a information linkages based on the will of the person, depending on the My Number Card, there are cases where the cooperation cannot be cut off by the person, cases where it can be cut off, or cases where it is better to link the cooperation to the My Number, which is the same story, and cases in the world of the region.

In addition, I would like to briefly state the concerns expressed by many members at this meeting. I believe that it is important to ensure that the people of Japan do not cooperate based on their own perspectives and intentions, that they cooperate in the belief that it will improve convenience, and that the expanded information is not unknowingly coordinated in the public authorities in the backyard, and is not used for surveillance or disadvantageous purposes. It is also important to ensure that young salmon released into the ocean do not return home fat, and that various things are not done behind the scenes.

In summary, I would like to ask what kind of cooperation is possible in law, whether it is possible at the will of the person or between the business operator and the person, and what kind of cooperation is prohibited because it is not possible. Second, since it is based on the person's point of view, it is possible to manage the consent of the person to the fact that the person can do it, can stop doing it, or cannot stop doing it. Third, even if it is not the My Number system itself, I think it is possible to create a proper governance system for the business operator to be able to handle information in cooperation at the will of the person. I think it is necessary to consider such discipline and how to analyze it specifically.

It's a little long, but the third point is short. As a premise of this discussion, the terms centralized management and distributed management came up, and I have mentioned a little about the discussion of whether it is centralized or distributed. I think it is better to organize what the term management means.

For example, there can be various or multi-layered management authorities, such as management in the sense of what the country should do to build the foundation of the data sharing platform, which is necessary to ensure the proper security of the cloud, to prevent the destruction of common functions, and to ensure interoperability, and management of the local government to put in and take out data, or management of the person. We will create a mechanism in which the person can trace and be involved in the process if the whole process is ultimately the origin of the person, after sorting out the stack of the purpose and the way of processing, and sorting out who is exclusively assigned to the process, who is attributed to the process in an overlapping manner, and who is not allowed to interfere with the process.

In addition, there may be cases where the Principal cannot handle them, so I think it would be good to establish a mechanism to support things that go beyond the limit of the consent of the Principal, such as PDS and information trust functions, in implementation. In addition, as I believe Mr. Personal Information Protection Commission is involved, a solid monitoring and supervision system should be established.

The rest is simple. The fourth point is the issue of the time frame, but I think Dr. Saito pointed out that it is important to think about a forum or a horizontal development mechanism to smoothly promote Mr. local government, who is ahead of us, to do well and share the best practices with many people in local government by the twenty twenty-five.

In addition, I believe that it is necessary to appropriately understand how users should be, how much they will be satisfied with this service, what points they think are good or bad, and what kind of users they are. In addition, from the perspective of appropriately understanding their concerns, it is necessary to create a mechanism that allows users to continuously express their opinions as monitors, rather than just always taking questionnaires from users or pushing something to the Digi-cho. In order to truly have the participation of the people, it is necessary to create this mechanism, or to stop doing things that have structural problems.

The fifth point is an issue that has not been raised until now, but I think it is an issue related to open science, which is currently being discussed in various places as science and technology policy and innovation policy, to prevent various kinds of data from being distributed and handled in the data sharing platform, and to prevent things that should not be done from being done. As a result, I think it is an issue related to open science, which is being discussed in various places as science and technology policy and innovation policy, to determine whether administrative measures are working well, whether they have been effective, what problems exist, and how to improve policies.

Therefore, regarding the data utilization of information here, I think it would be good to consider the possibility of accessing and publishing papers on the flow of data as statistical information or by reliable researchers with a certain limit, and making use of it in the review of administrative measures by agile.

It's been a long time, but that's all from me.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

It is getting close, but if there are any comments from Director General Kusunoki and Chief Officer for Digital Policy Akaishi, please let us know.

Director Kusunoki: I'm Kusunoki . I received a great number of opinions, and in the end, Mr. Shishido in particular summarized various things. After all, it is necessary to clearly organize what can be done by the involvement of the person himself.

In that case, even if consent is once given, it does not constitute consent if it is later connected behind the scenes and used in a different way. In that case, we must thoroughly consider how to connect the data. Even if the consent of the individual is withdrawn later when the 12-digit number is used for cooperation, there are parts that cannot be changed in the state of connection. Therefore, it is necessary to consider how to satisfy what many members have said, based on the original purpose of My Number Card.

On the other hand, when I think about digitalization, there are many things that can be done face-to-face and can be done on paper, but they cannot be done because they are not coordinated through the system. I think that is the root of the opinion that the scope of use of the My Number should be expanded in order to properly resolve this. In order to receive this recognition of Issue, I have a new impression that it is necessary to reorganize various concepts that are closely related to My Number System, including the 12-digit number and the ideal state of data connections, or My Number Card, and data connections by Mynaportal, which was proposed by Dr. Makoto Mori, and to face head-on the ideal state of data connections starting from each resident and how to think about the privacy required there.

Commissioner Ataka and others pointed out the so-called family registry problem. In the past, it was managed on paper and certified copies of it were issued as certificates. As a result, the data structures for internal management and the data structures for handing over credentials to residents had to be the same. However, in a digitalization society, it should be possible to protect privacy more flexibly. So, I think it is necessary for us to accept the assignment you gave us today and think about how data connections should be and how data utilization should be in society.

In addition, Issue's recognition that reliable researchers should be able to access the flow of information as statistical information in relation to so-called open science, which was pointed out by Dr. Shishido at the end of today, I believe that he gave a big question about ensuring transparency and the future of administrative evaluation, so I think we need to think about this carefully.

That's all from me.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Chief Officer for Digital Policy Akaishi, do you have any comments?

Chief Officer for Digital Policy, Akaishi: Just a few words, the point is to firmly establish the concept, organize the system individually and as a whole, clarify the future image, clarify the roadmap, and make agile improvements and benchmarks. It has been a bit ad hoc until now, so I thought it would be necessary to show the whole picture based on the discussion like today, so please continue to support us.

That's all.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Since it is already past time, I would like to ask Minister for Digital Transformation Makishima to make a speech at the closing of the meeting. Thank you very much.

Minister Makishima: Thank you very much for your visit to . I understand that I received very valuable advice from the experts today. At the beginning, I would like to apologize for not being able to participate in the plenary session.

During the second half of the meeting, I would like to express my sympathy to the people who were affected by the major earthquake that occurred last night. Every time we witness such a critical situation, I feel that there will be voices saying that there is more that can be done because of the creation of Digital Agency and the three fields of My Number.

As Professor Ataka agreed, after reading Professor Ataka's paper, I believe you pointed out that there is still much that can be done in the three fields.

In local government, I have visited cases such as Mr. Kitami City, where back-office cooperation is firmly established and One-Stop Counter is being conducted. There are places like that, and there are places where we still do not know what to do. We believe that we can provide services and convenience jointly with people in Mynaportal and private business, but I think I must take it seriously that you pointed out that utilization is still not sufficient.

Beyond that, I would like to move on to the next stage while considering push-type administrative systems and digital safety nets, which are mentioned as keywords today.

Thank you very much for your valuable talk today, and I think you gave me the assignment that I need to do a little more visualization of convenience and satisfaction when I think from the perspective of the people. I would like to ask for your continued guidance. Thank you very much.

Mr. Kimura: Thank you, Mr. .

Lastly, I would like to give you some administrative information.

The materials and minutes of this working group will be disclosed on the Digital Agency website. The secretariat will contact you to confirm the minutes after tomorrow.

In addition, although the press is also attending the meeting this time, we plan to hold a press briefing at the Secretariat after the meeting today.

Finally, we are currently coordinating the next schedule. The office will contact you again with the official schedule.

With that, I would like to conclude today's meeting. Thank you very much, everyone.