The 8th meeting of the My Number System and Central and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group
Overview
- Date and Time: Wednesday, March 29, 2023 (2023) from 17:00 to 18:30
- Location: Online
- Agenda:
- Opening
- Proceedings
- Structure for Dissemination of My Number Card Utilization Services and Future Actions
- Public service Initiatives and Issues for convenience
- Adjournment
Materials
- Agenda (PDF/52KB)
- Source: Digital Agency Explanatory Materials (PDF / 3,156 kb)
- Minutes (PDF/1,195 kb)
References
Minutes
Date
Wednesday, March 29, 2023 (2023), from 17:00 to 18:29
Location
Online Meetings
Attendees
Taro Kono (Minister for Digital Transformation)
Koichi Akaishi (Chief Officer for Digital Policy)
ATAGI Kazuto (Professor, Faculty of Environment and Information Science, Keio University / CSO, Yahoo Japan Corporation)
Naoki Ota (Representative Director of New Stories Co., Ltd.)
Yohei Saito (Director and CTO of Future Corporation)
Masahiko Shoji (Professor, Faculty of Sociology, Musashi University)
MORINOBU Shigeki (Senior Researcher, Institute for Policy Studies, Tokyo Foundation)
Nao Asanuma (Chief Officer of the Digital Agency)
Tatsuya Honmaru (Digital Agency CA)
Sota MIZUSHIMA (Digital Agency CPO)
Taiichiro Tomiyasu (Director-General of Digital Agency)
Masanori KUSUNOKI (Director-General of Digital Agency)
Keisuke Murakami (Digital Agency Supervisor)
Hirotami KIKKAWA (Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Director-General of Local Administration Bureau)
UEHARA Tetsutaro (Professor, Faculty of Information Science and Engineering, Ritsumeikan University)
Kazuko Ohtani (Executive Officer and General Manager of Legal Department, The Japan Research
Shuji Goto (President and Representative Director, area Information Technology Laboratory Co., Ltd.
Tsunehisa SHISHIDO (Professor, Graduate School of Law and Politics, The University
Akiko Sugawara (Managing Director and Head of Policy Planning, Keizai Doyukai)
Minutes
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto is on schedule, we will be holding the 8th "My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group" from now on. Thank you very much for taking the time to participate.
Today, Mr. Matsuda, Counselor of Digital Agency, will be the moderator. Nice to meet you.
This time, the event will be held online and will be open to the public, including members of the press. Since you have already attended the event online, I would like to report to you to that effect.
If you are a member or special member of the Working Group, please turn on the screen and turn on the audio only when you are transmitting. If you are a member or special member of the Working Group who is listening online, please turn off the screen and mute the audio.
Today, Minister for Digital Transformation Kono, members of the Advisory Panel, and observers from relevant ministries and agencies are attending.
First of all, I would like to have a greeting from the Minister Kono. Thank you very much.
Minister Kono: Today, thank you very much for taking the time to participate in the 8th "My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group".
In the Working Group so far, we have discussed information linkages based on the My Number Law from the perspective of systems and legal systems. I am aware that in the discussion, we have received opinions that the overall picture or goals should be organized from the perspective of what impact and convenience can be brought to society while setting and understanding user convenience or utilization rates and various KPIs on the user side.
Today, I would like to present the future direction and points of contention regarding the overall structure and future actions toward creating social impact, as well as the development of a system for improving convenience in the administrative field, and I would like to have active discussions with experts.
Thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to attend every meeting. I look forward to working with you again today.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Then, I would like to start the discussion right away.
First, Director Murakami will explain the agenda in the first half of the document, and Director Kusunoki will explain the agenda in the second half. After that, we would like to hear the opinions of the members and special members.
I would now like to ask Mr. Murakami, Director-General for Foreign Affairs of Japan, to provide an explanation
Director-General Murakami: I would like to say a few words from materials.
On page 1, I would like to hear Minister Kono's explanations on points (1) and (2). In particular, in the first half, I would like to hear your opinions on what actions are necessary after properly discussing the logical structure of social impact and the market sentiment of indicators.
Let's move on to the first half. Please turn one page.
I don't know if I can say that I owe it to you, but some people are saying that we are still not going to reach 100 million, but 95 million. We are almost close to reaching 96 million, but to be honest, it is difficult to reach 100 million by the end of the fiscal year. The significance of today's discussion is that until now, there have been few people who have them, so there are few uses for them, so there are few people who have them, and it is hard to say outwardly, but we have suffered from this vicious cycle. Conversely, there are about 8 million people aged 15 or younger who do not have them.
In addition, there are around 10 million people who need a certain level of support to acquire Issue due to dementia or other reasons. The figure of 95 million is, in fact, almost all applications for adult males and females have already been made, and about 66% of them have already made health insurance card, but by around May, the number will actually reach 95 million, and the number of applications as well as the number of applications for public funds will be the same as the figure shown here. In terms of the working population, the figure is around 60 million, so in terms of households that are active in various ways and adults, it is increasing steadily, although efforts are still needed.
It is the next page.
However, if we were to look at some of the social impacts, we would have to look at them from a macro perspective. Although the evaluation will be harsh, I have listed the figures.
If you are talking about the Issue of residence, the annual number of cases should be 60 million. In contrast, the number of cases has increased from 6 million to 9 million, but from 60 million, it is 15%.
In the same way, the number of health insurance card cases in medical institutions and pharmacies has increased sharply from only 60000 cases to 1.57 million cases, but to be honest, the overall impact is still 1%.
Then, how about private sector financial services, online identity verification? We are considering it quite a lot, but actually it is 50%.
The online service for moving procedures started in the second half of this February. It started smoothly, with about 30000 cases, and although it is popular among those who used it, it is currently 7% of the monthly number of 400,000 cases.
In this way, if we look at the impact on the case where all the procedures to be followed are replaced by My Number Card, we can observe such figures.
Please take the next page.
This is a kind of logic tree.
On the left side, the person who has a card is 95 million. However, there is a subtle difference between having a card and being able to use a card, so it is written here in a more organized manner.
On the other hand, on the right side is use cases, which is the scene where you can use it. The number of users in 4) supports the virtuous cycle of increasing the number of people who can use the service, and by creating a virtuous cycle of increasing the number of people who can use the service, the social impact that I introduced earlier will be seen, so let's take a look at the situation a little more.
It is the next page.
As I introduced earlier on the left, people who can use it, scenes where it can be used, and ease of use can be further divided into use in the administrative field and use in private sector and semi-public sector.
I would like to avoid explaining everything in order from the top, but for example, in terms of passports, there are supposed to be 1.22 million cases of use per year, but this is the current figure, and use cases will be arranged like this.
For example, in private sector, although I will not give you the numbers, I would like to know how many cases there are compared to the total number in black. Although there are many blank places for these numbers, we would like to be able to measure the actual number of cases for each black Max number.
If I say this in terms of social impact, I have just looked at tens of thousands of cases, but the logic that should be finally reached is not only the number of cases, but also how much the time and effort and cost of the residents themselves have been reduced, and how much the time and effort and cost of the administration have been reduced. Above all, the social impact from three perspectives, the residents' perspective, the administration's perspective, and the industry's perspective, such as the extent to which new services are being provided, will be logically derived from the black and blue in the left column, which I explained earlier. This is the arrangement of the logical model.
It is the next page.
Then, the scenes that can be used are government, semi-public sector, and private sector. The scenes that can be used in real life, and the scenes that can be used on the web, these are arranged in order, and the list mentioned earlier must be increased rapidly.
Also, speaking of authentication App, My Number Card is basically trying to spread the tool of online identity verification to all the people as a national infrastructure. Therefore, how can the means of online identity verification be used? In that sense, how the authentication scene in authentication App will spread is also a viewpoint when looking at the scene in the sense that it is necessary to look at it, although it is partly mixed with the world of Digita on the left side.
It is the next page.
Next, regarding the ease of use of the service, which still requires a lot of ingenuity, if you take a quick look at the procedures at the window, you will see that the dotted line will disappear by using the My Number Card. From the residents' perspective, how will not only the cost but also the time be reduced? Also, I think we will have to talk about the location.
Also, at the bottom, in terms of thorough UI improvements and digital procedures, I believe that it is necessary to specifically measure the extent to which before and after procedures look like below versus above, although it may not be necessary to measure all procedures.
It is the next page.
As for the usage trend, as you saw earlier, how about the use as an insurance card? How about the Issue of a resident card at a convenience store? How was it in the final tax return? We will actually monitor the moving procedures and so on.
As for the next page, when we think about social impact, we can see it in terms of the number of procedures and the area of time required for them. In addition, new industries will arise and the burden removed from society. In particular, when we calculate this figure, we tend to look only at the burden reduction on the administrative side, but how to translate the parts that do not reduce the burden on people who actually live in Japan into numerical values, and we have not yet developed indicators. For example, there are figures such as the creation of a market of about 18 billion in electronic signature services in the first year alone due to the use of electronic certification without a seal, but behind this, there will be services that utilize this. It will be necessary to measure how to capture these things. We will look at the impact including this. I think we still need to consider this in various ways.
That's all.
I have prepared the above frame as a hypothesis for the time being, but I believe that we will be able to see various ways in which such a perspective is necessary, or conversely, there should be such a use if we look at it in this way. So, today, I would like you to use this as a basis for your comments on the first half of this report.
In the second half, I would like to give an explanation to Director Kusunoki.
Mr. Kusunoki: Mr. Uehara , I would like to talk about the efforts and issues in the public service field toward convenience, including the current social impact, based on the discussions I have held thus far.
Originally, three years ago, when it was said that the special flat-rate benefit was a digital defeat, mainly in terms of convenience for residents, all the information possessed by the government had to be input manually, and there were many items. Even if it was received digitally, it seemed that all the information was printed out in Excel by the employees, but this was done manually because the system was not compatible. Every time a new digital service like this is released, it takes time and cost to respond to the system. If it is introduced, naturally, the employees will learn how to use it, including training.
At the same time, when looking at the cost of the country as a whole, there is a risk that the cost will increase if digital services are developed separately by 1,700 organizations in accordance with the further spread of digital services. Therefore, it is necessary to consider how to use the Dutch splitting effect.
One of the necessary efforts for Issue is to promote the development and review of systems in the country and implementation, with twenty twenty-five as the main local governments target, through a broad review of system architecture. Thorough USER INTERFACE, improvement of USER EXPERIENCE, development and dissemination of common functions, and utilization of data are also important. At the same time, this is not a problem to be solved by systems alone, but system design premised on the utilization of digital technology is also important.
On the other hand, many Digital Agency and designers have come in, and we are actually starting to see in figures how people are confused. At the time of the chaos in benefit three years ago, we focused mainly on how much we could reduce the time and effort of entering items. When we actually implement user testing, it actually takes many minutes. It does not necessarily take time only to enter items, but it also takes a considerable amount of time to perform operations such as moving the cursor, and more than that, it takes time to understand and confirm items. The input of items and the operation of moving the cursor can be improved by improving the usability of the system, but on the other hand, the fact that there are many items to understand and confirm, or to input, is a point that is difficult to improve unless we take care of not only the system but also the system.
Up until now, with regard to data sharing platform, if we can realize horizontal cooperation across organizations, as well as horizontal and vertical cooperation in which the front interface and back office are properly connected within each organization so that the residents do not have to input the information held by the government over and over again, we can improve the system.
I would like to repeat that. We will use the information in public authorities for front service. In this case, application information is displayed in advance by using information in local government, and input is not required. In addition, we have been studying to improve usability by further promoting backyard cooperation between public authorities based on the My Number Law.
In particular, when we try to link the front service and the back office, it has been very difficult to introduce the system in a lump because the system linkage mechanism has not been determined due to differences in vendors and organizations. However, in the future, we will make it easier to deploy applications that can be used in common by each data sharing platform on Government Cloud by making it possible to use the information in the organization in local government with a common interface.
In addition, back-office support, including automatic processing, will be extremely important on the business side. We are aiming for the unification and standardization of local governments in core business systems to be transition in standard compliance system by the end of fiscal 2025. By increasing the commonality of back-office systems, it will be easier to realize data-based resident services in local government, where standardization has been completed. Therefore, we believe that the so-called new data connections system to be developed by the national government and the unification and standardization of core business systems, which we are working on to achieve twenty twenty-five, will be integrated into an infrastructure to quickly deploy common services in the event of a crisis.
It has taken two to three years to build intermediate servers, including not only institutional development but also subsequent budget request and system development, in order to ensure that high-performance, low-cost and safe responses can be made to the growing needs of information linkages. By eliminating the need to build such intermediate servers individually and developing them as common functions on Government Cloud, we will be able to link data more quickly and at a lower cost.
In addition, the current information provision network system is based on how much back-office cooperation can be handled per day. It was not necessarily assumed that, for example, Mynaportal would send notifications to all citizens at the same time, but we will make it possible to respond flexibly to such volume of traffic.
On the other hand, this is not a single system on the Buckler. Each organization is encrypted with a different key, and is managed by a separate account. In terms of effective governance as a template, it is common in Government Cloud, but of course, Digital Agency cannot be peeped into, and data from other organizations cannot be viewed. The same mechanism operates in each organization, and we are considering enhancing commonality while continuing distributed management in the form of being subject to the governance of each organization.
Including these, in the development of systems to respond to so-called diverse needs, the division of roles between the public and private sectors and the division of roles between the national government and local public entities will be reviewed, and the national government will further reform business and provide common systems. This is already being tested during the COVID-19 pandemic, including VRS, but we will go further and make common services available. In the future, in order to make it possible to complete procedures only by expressing intention, rather than having each individual person input the information held by the government, there will be Issue not only in the system but also in institutional measures. Therefore, we will continue to repeat USABILITY testing and find out where there are bottlenecks with an open mind.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Then, I would like to hear the opinions of the members and special members about the content of the materials. I am very sorry, but in order to have interactive discussions as much as possible, I would like to have 3 minutes per person. I am sorry for being low-tech, but when 2 and a half minutes have passed, the Secretariat will give a signal by bell, and when 3 minutes have passed, I will give a signal again, so I would like to ask for your cooperation. Then, I would like to proceed with the hand-up method with the hand-up function.
First of all, Mr. Ota, nice to meet you.
Ohta Member: I'm Ohta . I will speak.
In fact, tomorrow, a graduate student taught by Mike Bracken, who happened to be the director of GDS in the United Kingdom, would like to have an interview with a case study on the Digi-Agency. This month, at the digital society Concept Conference on March 1, there is a document submitted by Priority plan that says there are four points from the GDS case study. So, I would like to make three brief remarks.
One of the transformation points I learned from the four GDS is Quickwin, and it is a small success in the early stage. As for this, firmly disseminating it will be a driving force for the transformation, so I think that Quickwin recently is a one stop shop for moving in Mynaportal. You just showed that 7% of people use it for only two months, and it is impressive and easy to use. There are people who do not know about this, so we will disseminate it everywhere. The point of transformation is how many Quickwin can be repeated, so first of all, I think the first Quickwin is a COVID-19 vaccination app, and it is important to repeat it one after another.
The second is the visualization of change, and social impact is exactly what it is, so we need to get it out firmly. I think the initial outcomes at that time are the utilization rate and the satisfaction level of those who have used it, but in the medium term, the satisfaction level of those who have not used it, in other words, the satisfaction level of those who do not use it because they do not know what kind of system it is and the application is complicated, is included in the medium term outcome, and it will be connected to the digital safety net, so I think it is good to create an outcome on a time axis.
Third, I think Government Cloud is very good, but there are some prefectures that cannot use it. Unless we develop a system that can use it together with a wide-area organization such as a local government, I think it is difficult to imagine that 1,741 prefectures will be able to use it. The Tokyo Metropolitan Government has announced GovTech Tokyo, and I think it will be very effective to consider it together.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
After this, I would like to ask you to speak in the order of Mr. Ohtani, Mr. Saito, and Mr. Mori. Mr. Ohtani, nice to meet you.
Otani Special Member: I'm Otani.
Thank you very much for your explanation. I believe that you have prepared a chart showing the visualization of the results so far, and that I understand some of your difficulties.
I would like to make three points.
First, I believe that it is necessary to indicate not only the numbers but also the type of society that will be created through the use of the My Number and My Number Card so that we can share an image of what kind of society it will be. As you have been making efforts so far, I believe that it will continue to be important to clearly indicate the path to a society in which not only can attached documents be omitted or back-office cooperation among public authorities be made to simplify administrative work, but in the future, public service options according to life stages will be notified in a push-type, and opportunities will not be lost without knowing the procedures.
Second, it is very desirable to increase the number of use cases, but as for UI, it will be used by a wide range of users, so we would like to continue to ask for the voices of such a wide range of people.
My third question is, I am in agreement with Mr. Ohta's opinion earlier on support for local government. Recently, I have heard about the security incident, in which administrative and local government information has been misused, so I believe it is necessary to continue to develop a framework for providing support to each safty and security in a careful manner so as not to undermine the sense of security in local government.
I would like to thank you for your efforts so far, and I would like to ask you to continue with these three points.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Next, Mr. Saito, nice to meet you.
Saito Member: I'm Saito . Thank you for your explanation.
I would like to make some comments.
I would like to show you page 9. As I believe Director Kusunoki mentioned earlier, among the various initiatives such as the Special Fixed Amount benefit in the past, there was a talk of digital defeat. The point that we should monitor was that the arrow extending from "transmission" of "burden on residents" to "confirmation" of "burden on processing officials" in the picture at the bottom of page 9 could not be completed digitally, and that was once printed on paper on the local government side, and there were such cases scattered around. Therefore, in looking at the point of digital completion that we have been discussing in the previous WG, I think it is extremely important to monitor to what extent the arrow from "transmission" to "confirmation" is completed digitally. I would like to add such a point of view.
On that point, as it was on page 5, I think this is an example, but how to evaluate the Issue on the resident record is an extremely important point. Is it the goal to make the percentage of 60 million Issue per year 100% in the first place? Originally, I think the goal is to make the number of Issue on the resident record zero. From that perspective, I think there are many cases in which wrong decisions are made if correct KPIs are not used, so I think one major goal is to make the number of Issue on the resident record zero, so I thought it would be good if you could see that perspective.
In addition, I believe that the online identification of private sector financial services is an extremely high number because it is a financial service, but in reality, there are still many things such as the eKYC mechanism in which you take a picture of My Number Card and move your neck, and if it is bad, you can copy and send it, so I think it would be very good if you could firmly grasp the denominator.
Lastly, as I believe you mentioned on page 19, I would like to ask about data sharing platform.
I believe this is a point that has been discussed in the Working Group so far, but I believe that it is about time to firmly summarize how we will approach transition in the context of twenty twenty-five.
With the current mechanism of uploading duplicates to the NWS for Information Provision and the intermediate server mechanism, I believe it would be good if the Working Group and local government's initiatives were presented from the perspective of how to gradually transition the mesh and promote the work of Digital Agency without delay, and how to transition the system itself.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto Next, after Mr. Makoto Mori's speech, I would like to take a moment to respond to what the two Director-Generals can answer. Then, Mr. Makoto Mori, thank you very much.
Makoto Mori Member: .
As you just explained, I also evaluate that the simplification of administrative procedures and the improvement of convenience using My Number Card are progressing very smoothly.
On the other hand, although I have been saying this here for about three years, I believe that we are behind in terms of building the infrastructure for a system in which income information acquired through My Number is linked to the peace of mind of people's lives and benefits.
For example, this time, as an anti-price measure, we are supposed to provide a uniform benefit of 30000 yen to low-income households and 50000 yen per person to dependents. The standard for judgment is the analog standard of whether or not you are exempt from resident tax. Then, if you have two Mr. dependents, you will receive a benefit of 130,000 yen, but if you pay even a small amount of resident tax, it will be 0, so the minimum taxable amount of resident tax will be adjusted for working. Actually, such a story is spreading. This is more serious than the wall of 1.06 million or 1.3 million. I don't think the wall of social insurance premiums is a real wall because you will receive pensions in the future, but the wall of resident tax exemption is a real wall.
As for the Household Exempt from Resident's Tax, there are also exemptions for entrance fees and tuition fees for the higher education. I believe that it is the Government's responsibility to use the My Number system to make the system smoother, in which the number of students who exceed one point becomes zero and they suddenly fall off the cliff.
In Europe and the United States, there is a system to smooth out things like cliffs. This is so-called tax credit with benefits, which is called universal credit in the United Kingdom. In short, there is a system to prevent cliffs from occurring by providing a certain amount of benefits to low-income groups based on net income after taxes and social insurance premiums are deducted.
I think it is the responsibility of the competent authorities to create this system, but when creating a system, I think it is crucially important whether there is an infrastructure for it, and I think it is Digital Agency that will create the infrastructure. In the first place, the outline of the law says that the purpose of this My Number is "to realize a more fair and just society" and "to realize a society in which social security is provided in a detailed and accurate manner."
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto , to the extent that I can answer now, I would like to have an exchange of opinions and answers from the two Director-Generals.
Director-General Murakami: I would like to say a few words from : First of all, from me.
I will not touch on each of them, but one of them is often discussed by People G of the Digi-Cho Agency. Recently, the AISS model has been called by Indeed and the online market system of labor. It seems to be called in various ways, but the point is to acquire knowledge, have people know about it, have people have interests, search for it, take action, and satisfy it. In this AISS, in fact, the part of Mainpo and administrative procedures is the part of search and action.
In fact, there is an argument that if we do not focus on Acknowledge and Interest, there is a risk that we will start to run a self-righteous PDCA cycle only between S and A. However, it is difficult for the government to own the media, and I am very sorry to say that in the presence of the person himself, Digital Agency is now a very influential minister, and he is effectively running a powerful drive for Acknowledge and Interest, but in reality, it is impossible to raise the number to 95 million.
I am not doing anything wrong, but as Mr. Ohta and Mr. Ohtani said, we should make sure to collect the early harvest part while informing people, draw a careful image, and convey a sense of security. Conversely, in the marketing world, it is natural to discuss how to foster owned media in private sector business. However, from the viewpoint that Digital Agency provides services to the people, if we do not consider how to devise the media in front of it, it will probably not work if we make use of the tools we have by ourselves. I am wondering what media strategies we should consider.
Of course, the Administrative Officer is not very good at creating easy-to-understand image diagrams one by one, or finding ways to achieve easy-to-understand results, such as the fact that it is a case of moving, and of course, we will carefully conduct public relations activities, but we will also talk about it and raise interest in it, so I would like to ask for your continued guidance.
If I were to break it down into two main points, the second point is, as Mr. Saito has instructed us, in fact, this My Number Card project is basically a front office project. Certification and the application, application, and procedures associated with certification are targeted at Oita this time, but I think you are right that Issue is connected to digitalization, which is the core business.
This is a separate time frame, and I would rather hand over the expertise to Director Kusunoki, but starting with the actual work in local government from data sharing platform, this is properly operated as a menu, but in terms of whether the DX work in local government and the front line work are working in tandem, the spread of My Number Card and its online operation are partially ahead, so I think we must think about how to synchronize them.
The third point I would like to touch upon at the end is exactly what Mr. Morinobu said, that is, a certain kind of tax exemption valley. In the past, Mr. Ken Suzuki said it would be "smooth." When it comes to full digital systems, the discontinuous cross-section of the system design will be eliminated, and tax rates and benefit rates will be changed very smoothly. If this is realized, I think it will be the power of digital systems, but in order to achieve this, analog systems will have to completely disappear. Otherwise, it will be difficult to enter into such a design.
As mentioned in the last point, 95 million is quite close to the total number. In fact, the MHLW is currently suffering from the issue of the Minor Pension Insurance Card, which is not mandatory in My Number Card, but to what extent it can change the quality of the entire medical care by having almost everyone hold it as an insurance card. In My Number Card, it is an application-based system, but in medical institutions, it is a legal obligation to respond to the My Number Card. In fact, the MHLW is working very hard to take all the people at once while making good efforts. By taking all the people digitally, the concept of a government providing benefits and public facilities to its people will be smoother, and various systems will be created without creating a more discontinuous cross section. Although there is still time until it is realized, I believe that this is a theme that I would like to work on. design
I can't answer all of them, but I picked up three points from me for now. Thank you very much.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
He was also known as Kusunoki
Mr. Kusunoki: Mr. Uehara , I would also like to answer about three points. It is not realistic for 1,740 organizations to hire cloud engineers for the support of so-called municipalities, particularly in the Cloud transition. I believe that the roles of prefectural governments will emerge in the future. While there are such specific moves in multiple prefectures, including the Tokyo Metropolitan Government, we are starting to study how we can expand horizontally to each local government while learning from organizations that are making advanced efforts. Looking at the actual situation, the situation of vendor recruitment differs depending on the prefecture, so there are prefectures where it is easy for prefectural governments to intervene, but there are also places where it is quite difficult to do so. 47 It is difficult to do so uniformly, but I would like to firmly consider that in the future. We will advance specific considerations.
In addition, Commissioner Saito said that transition is very important, and the third proof-of-concept for data sharing platform is currently underway, and technical issues for transition are being advanced considerably. In addition, considering how to connect the front and back, it is not enough to just use a mesh, but to create a responsibility demarcation point and develop the front and back as one. For example, the vaccine passport is a similar development method, and we were able to create an automated process in a very short period of time, but we have started research on whether a vertical model like the vaccine passport can be expanded to other use cases, such as digital benefits.
On the other hand, at the time of the VRS, there were quite a few parts that were operated by the public office of the city, which could not be easily coordinated at the beginning of the move, but in order to automate these parts, various functions of the data sharing platform seem to be very useful, so I would like to firmly work on specific details, including the transition model.
Finally, as Dr. Mori pointed out, I think there are both systemic and structural problems that make it difficult to provide smooth benefits. In terms of systems, at present, local government is pursuing how quickly it can provide benefits only with the information it has in its core system. Thanks to this, the data itself that can be used for specific public benefits has expanded, and it has become possible to provide benefits very smoothly, including push-type benefits. However, in order to make it more smooth, it is necessary to review the system itself by combining it with the systems, while renovating the systems over a considerable period of time, for example, starting with how each system has information on households. However, at present, such emergency benefits are distributed to another public office every time in a short period of time. If we are to provide truly smooth benefits, I think it will be quite difficult unless we decide on one place to be responsible for providing such benefits over a period of three to five years, and develop both systems.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Then, after this, I would like to ask Mr. Goto, Mr. Sugawara, Mr. Uehara, and then Mr. Shoji. Then, Mr. Goto, nice to meet you.
Special member Goto: Thank you, Goto. Now, I would like to make a few remarks.
Could you turn out page 11?
I think reducing the burden on residents is a very big theme. In that context, I would like to ask you to organize the procedures in terms of time. This is one easy-to-understand indicator, but in addition to that, for example, if the procedures can be done online, residents do not need to go to the administrative window, local government, or the window of a national institution. I think there are many factors such as transportation expenses. Or there will be no restrictions on the time period during which the procedures can be done. Online, basically, a mechanism will be created on the premise that it can be done at night, on weekends and holidays, etc., so if we express in some way how the restrictions will be beneficial, I think it will have a significant social impact.
Also, would you like to turn out page 19? What I would like to ask you is that the area around data sharing platform is still difficult to understand. I think it would be very easy for the people to understand if you could explain a little more about what exactly will become of this, how you are going to change the current administrative system, and how you are going to change the law. I would like you to come up with some ideas about this.
When I say it on page 19, in the place of organization, this is a country, right? It is not local government, is it? In similar places until then, it was local government. The word "organization" or "administration" is used in various ways, such as "country" or "local government", or both. I think this is one of the reasons why it is very difficult to understand.
I'm always biting, so I'll tell you a few good things.
From March 27, the procedure for discounts for the disabled on expressways has changed. I have not yet completed the procedure, but I myself am a severely disabled person who has been using a wheel chair for nearly 50 years. In that sense, this content can be processed online using My Number Card. There were restrictions on the cars subject to the discount, but they have been largely removed. The system, including the so-called BPR, has been reviewed. I thought this was a very wonderful initiative. I hope that this form will serve as a starting point for expanding convenience to the people of Japan and residents.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Thank you very much, Mr. Sugawara.
Special Member: Thank you very much. I am very sorry for being a little late at the beginning.
First of all, I would like to express my gratitude to the people of digital society for vigorously advancing various policies, including the rapid spread of My Number Card, which is Digital Agency's infrastructure and passport. It is necessary to accelerate the use of My Number Card, My Number, and Mynaportal from the possession stage to the use stage, in what situations they will be used in the lives of the people. I would like to see continued efforts to make the effects of various policies as quantitative as possible and to visualization.
In terms of understandability, I believe that the field of digital safety nets should be strengthened. In addition, it is good to implement each policy widely and evenly, but rather focus on specific fields. For example, I believe that one of the things that Children and Families Agency can do this time is to focus on the field of childcare. Users in this field are relatively more of the digital native generation who can use digital technology, which has the effect of high information diffusion. In addition, as one of Digital Agency's missions, the phrase "no one will be left behind" is often used, and I believe that if abnormal values are found in data while monitoring the health status of a data connections with wide-area cooperation, such as a Aid-requiring Child, so-called abuse, or a dependents, it will be possible to collaborate with child guidance centers and delve into specific scenes.
In addition, this is a voice from the field, but in addition to GtoC, in the child-rearing related field, the procedures for personnel and labor at companies are a heavy burden, coupled with the active participation of women and the mandatory taking of childcare leave by men. In particular, it is a heavy burden for small and medium-sized enterprises and venture companies. I think that various application services related to pre - and post-childbirth and childcare, which are not annual services such as year-end adjustments and can occur all the time, are more convenient and the effects are easy to understand. There are many documents that employees must submit to personnel and labor, such as Maternal and Child Health Passbook and a copy of the certificate of residence, and I think that it will be more convenient if Mynaportal and corporate personnel and labor, Mynaportal and the health association work together on API to replace the attached documents necessary for application with My Number or Mynaportal, or make it unnecessary to submit them. I think that it will be effective to proceed from the digitally native generation, including smartphone. Thank you very much.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Thank you, Mr. Uehara.
Uehara Special Member: I would like to talk a little about it.
First of all, with regard to the first social impact, I had expected that the diffusion rate would reach around 75, but I believe that it will be a very long way from here, and I believe that skepticism about why certain types of systems, such as My Number Card and My Number System itself, are being operated will not disappear easily, so unfortunately, it will be a very long way to reach 100.
In order to dispel this as much as possible, I believe that we will not approach 100 unless we repeatedly convey a simple message about why we are doing this.
In other words, administrative efficiency was one of the main themes of My Number, so if you want to show the social impact, the most easy-to-understand message should be to show it simply in terms of cost, so I would like you to convey this in an easy-to-understand manner as much as possible.
For example, when the Juki Net started, the postcard that we sent every year for the Issue of pensions disappeared. It is so-called identity verification. You can see the cost reduction in a very easy-to-see manner that it disappeared. By accumulating several things like this, what are you doing for? It is for the efficiency of the government. I think it will be shown as an easy-to-understand message. Also, regarding My Number Card, if you tell us well that it is identity verification, it will be easier to understand the response that it can be used in such a situation with digital identity verification.
In terms of this, My Number Card has been packed with various functions, and it has become difficult to understand. In particular, when we talk about installing the JPKI function on a smartphone, I am worried that this will become unclear, so I would like to ask you to take care of this.
In addition, there are certainly negative aspects to the dissemination of the My Number. For example, in order to collect the My Number, the procedures for identity verification and the collection of the My Number are currently costing private sector a very large amount of money. In fact, I have been filling out the documents to submit the My Number many times, and I would like you to consider efficiency over there.
Next, in the second half, there is only one.
With regard to data sharing platform, if this method is used to create it, I think it will be a very big issue how to implementation a transparent mechanism that returns to the Principal what kind of data is being used, in other words, a mechanism that is equivalent to the communication record in the current core system. I think this is an important mechanism to ensure a mechanism for the participation of the Principal, so I would like to see it realized.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Then, Mr. Shoji, please.
Shoji Member: Thank you for your explanation, .
I would also like to make some comments.
First of all, let's start with the simple part. Regarding the part on page 5 where we will try to understand the figures, I think it is good to say that moving has become more convenient. But rather than increasing the number of people moving, I think it is significant that data exchange between local government has become smoother. In that sense, I think it is quite important how many applications this can be made. In addition to moving, I think it is necessary to look at the fact that cooperation between local government has become smoother in other procedures.
Also, on page 14, in regard to the implementation target of twenty twenty-five that you mentioned, on the other hand, at the bottom of that, you stated that the systems themselves must be reviewed.
Recently, I have been thinking that it is good that everyone is working on the twenty twenty-five target, but when it comes to institutional design, I think it will be after that. I myself call it the "Second Round," but I think it is time to start discussions on what kind of major reform should be carried out after the start of twenty twenty-five data sharing platform and the completion of standardization and Buckler transition. If we can see that, we will be able to say that this must be done by FY2025, or if institutional discussion starts, it will be easier to discuss various things, such as whether this part can be postponed, so I think it is necessary to start discussions ahead of FY2025.
Also, as I believe this was Mr. Kusunoki's comment, it is necessary to review the difficulty of administration and simplify it, not just the difficulty of digital administration.
Finally, regarding MIERUKA, which Mr. Murakami talked about in the first half. Regarding the understanding of data, I think it is better to make MIERUKA of the back side of services other than those that are easy to understand, such as standardization, and make it public. If we make MIERUKA of only those that are easy to understand, interest in the back side will be reduced. Therefore, I would like to ask you to make MIERUKA of such things as standardization.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Next, after Mr. Ataka's presentation, I would like to ask both Director-Generals to give their answers where they can. Thank you very much, Mr. Ataka.
Ataka member: I'm Ataka. Thank you very much.
I think 95 million sheets is amazing. The explanation of loop or vertical and horizontal was easy to understand. I think it is also good that you have 60 seconds left on your smartphone.
There are four or five APIs, but the number of APIs is important, but on the infrastructure side, I thought it would be better to clarify the goals of API development and visualization them.
In addition, although it is the same infrastructure, I believe that it is actually biometric authentication that connects digital and real, but it is okay to connect the capabilities of the smartphone side. Usability is an extremely important part, but I don't think it is included in the scope yet, so I have been discussing it since the time of the Prime Minister's Office, but it may be included, but for the time being, it is far away, so I think it would be better to include it a little more clearly.
Since the card and the number are different, the card has great power as a token, but I think it is extremely important to increase the utilization of the number alone.
My second question is about the service side of public office. I think the main subject of the service is local governments. I think it is very good. As Mr. Ota said earlier, I have been talking about the development of the quick-win system and the relocation since I was in the Prime Minister's Office. It is wonderful that the system is very well developed, so I would like to have it.
I think it would be good to add some more. It is easy to understand.
One is that we will dramatically increase our ability to respond to shocks, such as the Desaster. There are many people from various countries, and we are talking about the responses of global people. There are many things that need to be manually input many times at the public office counter, but I thought it would be meaningful to add something that would eliminate such things.
The third lump is the business side of the administration.
This is currently the My Number Committee, so it may be outside the scope, but I believe that Digital Agency is fundamentally about business innovation, and just by being able to make it possible to move 24 hours a day, 365 days a year without people, it should make it very easy for people, so can't it be done well? For people in the office, to what extent can they make it possible to do it online? I think Inside public office should do it.
The last story is about private sector.
For most people, going to public office is not so frequent. So, it would be really convenient if we could deploy it on the private sector side and use it well as a login system. I thought that we should add this site to the scope of use of My Number at the end.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Then, I would like to answer what the two Director-Generals can answer.
Director-General Murakami: I would like to say a few words from , I would like to pick up only the part related to me. In terms of the spread rate, we actually think that the world is different up to 100 million people and beyond 100 million people. To put it bluntly, it is children and people with dementia and other conditions, so in the second half, it is about how to respond to the procedures for schools and people with dementia and other Issue. To put it in a very strange way, most of them will probably be people who do not use Mynaportal themselves, so the problem of the spread rate of less than 100 million people and the problem of people beyond 100 million people depend on how to spread it, but unless we consider what kind of procedures they will take, it is not a world of how to attack another 2,000 people. In particular, since this field is strongly related to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare and the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, I believe that it is necessary to discuss both the spread rate and the development of applications for those people with each public office as a set.
You said that the cost may be easy to understand, but to put it the other way around, we at Social Impact are very concerned about how to evaluate the parts that do not appear in the cost. In particular, I believe that the industrial creation effect is to a certain extent. In addition, it is difficult to convert time, especially the time of people living in Japan, into numerical values, so I would like to ask for your continued guidance on this matter.
In addition, there have been criticisms that Mynaportal is difficult to use and understand, such as a certain kind of incomprehensibility and a review of the administration itself, which I believe is a group of problems. The UI has been repaired diligently, but on the contrary, from another aspect, I believe that the fact that all kinds of citizen services have gathered in Mainpo has made the original incomprehensibility of citizen services easier to understand.
Among them are the practical problems that services do not cooperate with each other in the first place, and to be honest, the problems that various procedures are different depending on the local government, and these problems are coming up in an easy-to-understand manner because they are gathered in a complex manner in Mainpo. These are exactly the problems of administrative work itself, and I don't know if this is an appropriate statement as an administrative officer, but at least in terms of digitalization, I don't think we will be able to reach the essence of the problem if we just say in an easy-to-understand manner in Mainpo, unless we cut into the problem of the standardization of the central system that Mr. Kusunoki is working on. This may be beyond the scope of the Digi Agency, but we are working on how to proceed while worrying ourselves.
Also, it is said that this will cost private sector more than expected. Conversely, I would like to consider the Criminal Proceeds Act in that direction. When it is conducted online, it is said that all of them should be used in My Number Card. There are also those, and there is also the response of sending a photo of your driver's license. Since there are many remaining, we have to respond to all of them. Therefore, the diffusion rate has been low until now, so we can no longer say that My Number Card should be unified, and we have been asked to do that and to do that. However, since the diffusion rate in My Number Card has reached this level for ordinary adult men and women, it is said that it is better to take the plunge and make all of them in My Number Card. I believe that there is also such an aspect because financial institutions have clearly requested that we do so in discussions on the Criminal Proceeds Act.
However, in that case, as Mr. Ataka said, "Long live My-Napo." In fact, we believe that the big Issue of the next phase is how to skillfully cut API and how to blend the functions that My-Napo has behind in private service without making My-Napo feel. Surprisingly, it is not known, but in fact, API has already been cut down to 100 business operators, and they are doing it as they please in various ways. For example, in the case of Issue Kin of Digita, there is a direction that the Maternal and Child Health Handbook will be turned into an online app at once. In particular, since all mothers are in the generation that uses mobile phones, it is possible that it will be turned into an online app at once because digital promotion is not necessary. However, the screen of My-Napo is still very busy, so I think it is necessary to think more deeply about how to cut off API rationally and provide this service to private service more and more.
Also, at that time, when can I use the biometric authentication? This is Mr. Kusunoki's specialty, but the Android will take the lead, but when it is put on mobile phones, at least the biometric authentication on mobile phones and smartphones will be used in the second step of two, so there will be various discussions about taking bodies where they can be used more and more. But in the long run, both the people who are doing it and the residents will be happy, so I wonder what can be done. In the end, regarding the 24 hours a day, 365 days a year operation that Mr. Ataka said, for example, if it is only accepting orders, it will be possible to respond 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. As a Issue, I would like to continue to consider how to correct the situation by leveraging digital systems, such as front and back systems, excessive local autonomy, or rationalization of separate services. I would like to receive various wisdom.
I have said many things at once, but that is all for now.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Mr. Kusunoki would like to talk to you about something.
Mr. Kusunoki: Mr. Uehara mentioned that if we do not know what will happen in data sharing platform, what will be done about the institutional aspect? Initially, when we were discussing the matter at the Prime Minister's Official Residence, it was in the scope of consideration, including a large-scale institutional review. However, during the subsequent discussions, the situation has changed, and basically, it is now the case that we will steadily work out what is feasible within the current legislative framework. In general, three years ago, it was considered over the past year or so that it was possible to solve the problem of having to solve this somehow. In particular, in order to realize data sharing platform, it is not the case that some major revision of the My Number Law is necessary.
On the other hand, while flexibility has been enhanced, including the method of exchanging relationship attributes, the information provision network system has become complex premised on restrictions. There are various systems, including cooperation in family registry, and whether there are parts that can be loosened within data sharing platform's technical restrictions. There is a possibility that this will be discussed in the future. Commissioner Shoji also expressed his opinion that he would like to see a blueprint of what kind of reform will be carried out after 2025 years. Can we take responsibility while understanding the importance of showing this?
For example, it is possible that we can say that we will submit such a bill to the ordinary Diet session in 2026. This will probably be a matter that will be considered not only by the Digi-cho but also by the ministries and agencies responsible for the system. Therefore, we will first remove technical restrictions one by one. Assuming that, what will be announced as a system? I believe that we need to unravel the relationship between chicken and egg one by one, and I believe that we need to think about how to pass the baton while we are working to implement what we have committed to step by step.
In addition, you mentioned biometric authentication. This is a framework in which the government does not have unnecessary privacy information, and biometric information is realized in the form of being locked in a smartphone, considering the situation when a smartphone is installed. In biometric authentication, it is often discussed with the type of information provided by the People's Republic of China and other countries, but I think it is necessary to carefully consider how to appropriately proceed while protecting privacy one by one.
In addition, I believe there are various ways to reduce the burden of personnel and labor affairs in companies, which Mr. Sugawara mentioned. In the area of how to improve ERP in private sector, which provides services to companies, mainly My Number System itself has been working hard for the past 10 years or so on how to connect the systems in public authorities, and there are parts where it has been difficult to step into how to digitalization the various administrative work that has been transferred from the private sector to the public sector. I think it is necessary to spend time thinking together with the industry and the ministries and agencies responsible for the systems on how to make it more convenient in digitalization.
This is what Mr. Uehara pointed out about the inefficiency of the collection of so-called My Numbers. When I give lectures and write a lot of manuscripts, I receive a lot of letter packs at the end of the year. Or, companies that I do not know well send them by simplified registered mail or registered mail, so the business hours of post offices on Saturdays and Sundays have become much shorter. I thought about how to send them, so I sent them by registered mail, and I put them in the post office as they are. But this is not just a systemic problem. Institutionally, it can be done in My Number Card, but until now it has not been possible to have two systems, analog and digital. Now that cards have finally become widely used, I believe that the collection of My Numbers in digital form will increase in the future. However, I believe that this is not something that should be done by the national government alone, but it is necessary to involve number collection agents in private sector in order to firmly work on what kind of action should be taken to advance digital completion. If any institutional issues arise, I would like to take them seriously and consider what kind of action should be taken.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto , Director-General, thank you very much.
From here on, although it will take a little less than 10 minutes, I would like to have a free discussion with those who have additional opinions.
First of all, Mr. Shishido has raised his hand, so Mr. Shishido would like to make a statement.
SHISHIDO Special Member: I'm Shishido . Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak.
I agree with most of the members and special members, but I would like to make three main points.
The first point is that I myself moved to public office the other day, and it overlaps with the issuance of the My Number Card, so I thought it would be difficult for the field, but I think it is important for local governments officials to have an appropriate understanding of the My Number. It is not only the people in charge of the My Number or the My Number Card, but all public servants to have an understanding of this problem, and it is important for all public servants to understand the significance of the My Number so that people who come to the field can understand that it is our story. I would like to ask Digital Agency. This is the first point.
The second and third points may be future stories based on the current status of dissemination. As Mr. Sugawara mentioned earlier, I believe that there are various ways in which emphasis will be placed on the way of life of each person and how the My Number system and My Number Card will be involved, not only on dissemination and enlightenment based on the fact that the My Number system and My Number Card will be involved in the way of life of people and at the macro level.
I think there are exactly what it means for the child-rearing generation and people raising children, what it means for people with disabilities, and so on. In fact, if digitalization is fully advanced, it may be a story to deal with all situations individually without classifying the way of life of each person or life stage, but if we are still just before that, for example, for those who are raising children now, if there is a My Number, My Number Card, it will be easy to do this, this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this My Number Card
If I were to turn this around, I would say that it is related to what Mr. Murakami and Mr. Kusunoki said earlier, but I believe that it is largely related to the way each administration itself is. I believe that the My Number system and My Number Card will bring out the problems of each administration, but to turn this around, whether it is public assistance administration or concept of a government providing benefits and public facilities to its people, when measuring the level of satisfaction with public service, at the same time as measuring the level of satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the My Number system and My Number Card, I believe that it would be good to use the My Number system in all administrative fields, measure the advantages and disadvantages of Digital Agency's digitalization, measure the understanding of people, and measure the level of satisfaction of the people in all administrative fields.
In order not to make it longer, I would like to say a little more about the last point. Understanding how much benefit has been gained by My Number and My Number Card is similar to measuring how much economic effect and whether or not new industries have been born by, for example, developing roads or expressways. It is difficult to measure by infrastructure, but I think it is effective, but I think it would be good to refer to the method of measuring the effect of infrastructure.
That's all from me.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
If you don't mind, Mr. Morinobu, I think there was a place on the way. What do you think, Mr. Morinobu?
Makoto Mori Member: Thank you very much. Please be brief.
The United Kingdom and the Republic of Korea already introduced smoothing systems 30 years ago and 10 years ago, respectively, so it's not that difficult. We will pay the difference, so I think I can do it if I want to. As Mr. Kusunoki said, I understand very well that it is not possible to develop infrastructure alone unless we work together with the government agencies responsible for creating this system. On the other hand, I also hope that Digital Agency will be able to overcome the "wall of Kasumigaseki."
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto and Mr. Uehara, I think you have raised your hand, but after
Mr. Fuji, is there anything I can do for you?
Special member Goto: Thank you, .
Mr. Kusunoki responded to my question earlier. In that sense, I understand that you are thinking in that way, but I would like you to tell us exactly what kind of services you are going to offer in data sharing platform.
In particular, as you mentioned in today's materials, in terms of the current method of standardization in local government, I recognize that it does not take into account the fact that local government's backbone system responds in real time to the outside world 24 hours a day. In that sense, for example, if the intermediate cooperation server will disappear in the future, the actual backbone system will have to be re-created. As Mr. Shoji said earlier, this will naturally be involved in the consideration of specific design and other matters in the future as the second phase. In that sense, I think we are still in the middle of the road and far away, but I also want to do my best.
Also, Mr. Murakami mentioned excessive local autonomy, so please let me discuss this somewhere for a while. Thank you.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Mr. Uehara, do you have any?
Uehara Special Member: Two from my side.
The first is about data sharing platform.
I understand that what I want to do is to increase convenience, but in order to do so, I am designing with whatever philosophy, what I will do, and what I will not do. In other words, I think it is important to show in a more easy-to-understand manner that I am doing this in order to dispel the concern that it will lead to the monitoring of the people, which is often said.
For that purpose, as I mentioned earlier, we will definitely set up a mechanism to return the information exchanged in data sharing platform to the person, for example, to compare the information from one ministry and another ministry and another ministry for this system. If we do so, it will be more transparent. This is the same mechanism as xROAD, for example. I am concerned that if you do not show us that you will definitely set up such a system, you will not raise your hands in favor of it. I would like to ask for your cooperation.
Another question is about the social impact. You mentioned earlier that it is not just the cost. I believe that it is quite difficult to talk about anything other than the cost, so I think it would be better to be a little more alarmed than to devote effort to it. Since I am in the local local government, I feel very much that the local local government is becoming more and more exhausted, especially from the countryside. The window cost is weighing heavily on us. I believe that we must do this to reduce this. By pushing this out, I think we will be able to gain a little more understanding. In addition, I think that by realizing it, the social impact can be shown, for example, by reducing the number of windows.
That's all.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
I believe there will be various discussions, but as time is limited, I would like to hear additional comments from the two Director-Generals, including your recent remarks.
Mr. Kusunoki: Mr. Uehara , Parliamentary Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs, once again raised the issue of Issue. Needless to say, the current information provision network system is also disclosing information provision records, and I believe it is a major premise that this concept will basically be followed.
In addition, Commissioner Goto expressed his concern about eliminating or not eliminating the intermediate server. What is different from the time three years ago is that through the standardization of the local government system, our knowledge of the actual structure of the local government system has significantly increased over the past two to three years. At that time, we had discussed that it would be better to use API cooperation for all of the information. However, under the current situation, attribute information that truly requires real-time processing is being narrowed down, and dialogue with vendors is underway regarding various APIs in the Agency's data connections. Therefore, discussions on whether there is a realistic transition path are being held at a much higher resolution than before, and cooperation is being held within the Agency. However, how to provide information in order for review is too detailed to be done in this multi-brand display area, so I would like to think about how to proceed in the future.
Director-General Murakami: I would like to say a few words from . I am sorry for making a comment that makes me feel like I have forgotten my position and become a member of the Committee. I believe that there is one flow that is based on everything. However, interest is inevitably being paid to all citizens. When I listen to the discussions in this way, I am thinking that the issue of the digital literacy of local government employees should be addressed first rather than the issue of the digital literacy of the elderly in local government. I am thinking that there is an issue that should be addressed for all of local government.
In that sense, as Mr. Uehara said, in the first place, when it comes to indicators, officials always try to create correct indicators in order to study for entrance exams, but there are no correct ways to measure them, so I would like to take this as a message that we should do more and more effective ways to measure them where we can do them for the purpose.
One last idea. Although it is impossible in reality, in that sense, I raised the principle of real-time response, and if we start from a campaign theory that the administration that does not respond in real time is useless, the front desk and business may be connected even if we do not like it. I am listening to you while thinking that it is an irresponsible responsibility that I should not say, but it is an idea. Thank you very much for your very useful opinions today.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
Do you have any comments from the Minister Kono?
Minister Kono: , thank you very much.
We had a very long and active discussion. I'm sorry to hear that Bell gave you a ding ding ding ding. I would like to ask you to forgive me for not proceeding.
Someone told me on the way that it is important not to submit more than one certificate of residence, but to prevent the submission of certificates of residence. I agree with that. I have to make sure that the direction we are taking is correct, and I have to understand what digitalization is really about. Thank you very much.
What I am acutely aware of now is that no matter what we try to do, each ministry will bring it to us in three years from now. In the first year, we will revise the law, and in the second year, we will collect the budget. And in the third year after the system is created, we will have to do something about it. Three years from now, three years from now, and with the current rotation of public office, there will be no one in three years, so I am working while thinking that we must fundamentally think about what to do about this problem.
Based on the various points you discussed today, I would like to firmly advance consideration of Priority plan toward the realization of digital society. I look forward to your continued support.
Mr. Matsuda: Mr. Goto .
That's all for today's agenda. Finally, the Secretariat would like to make an administrative contact.
The materials and minutes of the Working Group will be made available on the Digital Agency website. As for the minutes, the Secretariat will contact the members tomorrow or later to confirm them, so we would like to ask you to confirm them.
In addition, the Secretariat will hold a press briefing after the meeting today.
With that said, I would like to close today's Working Group. Thank you very much for taking your time.