The 4th digital society Concept Conference

Overview

Date and Time: Thursday, April 14, 2022 (2022) from 10:00 to 11:30
Location: Online
Agenda:
1. Opening
2. Proceedings
  1. Toward the Next prioritization in planning
  2. Public Comment
3. Adjournment

Conference Video

The conference is available on YouTube (Digital Agency official channel).

Materials

References

Reference 1: Holding of the digital society Concept Conference (Partial Revision) (PDF / 63 kb)

Minutes

Secretariat: This is the . This is the secretariat.

As it has become a fixed time, we will hold the "digital society Concept Conference" from now on.

I would like to make three brief announcements at the beginning.

First of all, today's meeting will be held online.

Second, based on the guidelines for the operation of the conference, today's conference will be open to the public, and will be held in a form that allows reporters and the general public to attend the conference in real time online.

Third, on April 1, there was a change in the membership, from Hirai to Muraoka. We plan to receive a few words from Muraoka later.

In addition, due to the change in the members, Reference Material 1 "Holding of the digital society Concept Conference" was partially revised on April 1.

So, from here, Chairman Murai, thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, . I'm Murai. I'm the chairman. Nice to meet you.

Thank you for taking the time to join us today.

Today, 10 members, including myself, are online. Members Mikitani and Muraoka have left in the middle.

I understand that Mr. Kawabe and Mr. Noda are absent from the meeting. Thank you.

From Digital Agency, Minister Makishima and Senior Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs Kobayashi are attending.

First of all, I would like to receive an address from Minister Makishima. Thank you very much.

Makishima Minister for Digital Transformation: Good morning.

Thank you very much to all the busy experts for attending the Fourth digital society Concept Conference today.

At the digital society Concept Conference, which has been held three times so far, we have had discussions from a broad perspective toward realizing the image of digital society as it should be. At the end of last year, we were able to set up a digital society that will serve as a compass for structural reforms and measures to realize a society in which digital technologies can be used to select services that suit the needs of each person and can realize diverse happiness as the Priority plan we aim for. Thank you very much.

Thanks to the presence of Priority plan, I was able to exchange views based on Priority plan with Senior Vice-Minister Fumiaki Kobayashi, Parliamentary Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs Taro Yamada, various organizations and companies, and foreign dignitaries, who are participating today, in order to actively communicate Priority plan after the beginning of the New Year. I believe that this is a compass.

In order to realize the ideal digital society discussed at this conference, we will work on A digital society where no one left behind, total design, utilization of My Number System, digitalization of semi-public sector such as medical care, education, and children, renovation of national and local information systems, development and securement of digital human resources, DFFT, International Strategy, comprehensive data strategy, etc., while fully cooperating with related ministries and agencies. In addition, we are continuing discussions in Digital Extraordinary Administrative Advisory Committee and Conference on the Realization of the Digital Garden City Nation Vision, and we are also advancing the development of full investigation and Digital infrastructure in law in light of digital principles.

On the other hand, needless to say, changes in the environments surrounding digital society, such as the situation related to digital technology, are faster than imagined. In order to quickly incorporate the necessary measures under these circumstances, I believe that it is necessary to update Priority plan in the summer, when many government plans are compiled every year. Although Priority plan was just announced as a new priority at the end of the year, I would like to hear your opinions again in light of the recent situation. Thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, .

Then, I would like to start the discussion right away. It is about the next prioritization in planning, which has been a topic of conversation. The previous Priority plan discussed the shape of society to be achieved by digital at this Concept Conference, and based on that, we were able to advance various measures.

In the same way, at this meeting, while maintaining the outline, I believe that the flow will be to confirm the records of the activities to date and to consider the next prioritization in planning based on that.

Then, I would like to ask the secretariat to explain the materials.

Secretariat: This is the Handout 1. Since you have already confirmed it, I will give you a brief explanation.

First of all, for the next prioritization in planning, we would like to formulate a plan based on the Basic Act on digital society Formation and other laws.

In addition, with regard to "Towards the Next prioritization in planning," as you and Mr. Murai have just mentioned, last year, while creating subgroups, etc., we were presented with an ideal digital society and Priority plan was formulated. In order to respond to the changes in the situation and Issue, etc., we would like to have discussions based on the outline of last year.

In addition, last year, the digital society was created within this year based on the Basic Act on Priority plan Formation. It will be created in the middle of this year, which will be six months after the creation, but I would like to ask for your cooperation.

On page 2, as I mentioned earlier, we will respond to Issue in response to future changes in the situation in Issue, and the areas that need to be addressed are marked in yellow.

In the following three pages, I will introduce the matters that need to be addressed in each case. I will also briefly explain this.

The first is in relation to accessibility. Since the present Priority plan has already put forward specific measures for environmental improvement, the progress of these measures will be described.

As for the second and third points, I would like to state them based on the progress of the review of regulation by the Digital Consultative Meeting and various discussions held at the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Conference.

Next, on the next page, we are also dealing with International Strategy after the establishment of Digital Agency, but there is progress since then, so we will also describe it. Next, regarding the Data Strategy, we will describe the basic concept of the framework for securing Trust.

Also, in terms of total design, we will draw up a total design for each country, local governments, and private sector, which is also being discussed by the My Number Working Group, so we will respond based on that.

Next, on page 5, the My Number Working Group is also discussing the promotion of the utilization of My Number and the expansion of information linkages, so we would like to respond to that. In addition, we will add functions to Visit Japan Web in relation to public front services, so we would like to respond to that.

Regarding semi-public sector, there are two developments, and regarding education, there is progress in data connections and other areas, so I would like to describe them.

On page 6, we are currently working on various projects related to children, so I would like to describe our response based on that. In addition, I would like to describe necessary matters related to the regulatory reform Conference and the cashless bill that is currently being submitted by Digital Agency.

Next, with regard to the systems and technologies that support digital society, Government Cloud will be a full-scale transition from fiscal 2023 onwards. In addition, digitalization of judicial proceedings premised on the revision of civil lawsuits, etc. is currently underway. In addition, with regard to the standardization of local systems, the response to the Basic Policy on Standardization has been expanded from 17 to 20 operations, so I would like to make a statement based on that.

Next, in relation to infrastructure, I would like to respond to specific development targets for optical fiber, 5G, data centers, submarine cables, and so on.

In addition, in relation to digital human resources, we are also planning to compile a "Female Digital Human Resources Development Plan," and I would like to include our response to that.

Next, on the next page, I would like to respond to the points pointed out by the members. One is about digital policy, which is necessary for security in the event of an emergency. If you look at the part in red, isn't it necessary to consider a different response from the past in the context of security as a national digital policy? In addition, there is the Public-Private Partnership Principles as the third point of the Digital Principles, and in relation to private sector, it is necessary to sort out what private sector will do and to what extent, or whether the national government can give instructions.

In the lower column, I believe that it is necessary to include information related to Web3.0. Finally, I believe that we should take into account other countries in responding to the issue of "Consideration of basic indicators to measure progress in digitalization."

In addition, I would like to respond to the question of whether we should clearly indicate that we will thoroughly utilize My Number System, or whether we should thoroughly utilize My Number System under a new architecture in the fields of medical care, nursing care, and education.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Now, based on what you have just explained, I would like to ask you to discuss the policies and content for the formulation of the next Priority plan. As usual, you can discuss as you wish, but I would like to appoint the members who are scheduled to leave early first.

First, is Mr. Muraoka there?

Muraoka Member: Thank you, .

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, First of all, I would like to ask you to make a few remarks as a greeting. Thank you very much.

Muraoka Member: Thank you, Thank you.

From today, I will be participating in this conference on behalf of Mr. Hirai, Chairman of the National Governors' Association. My name is Muraoka, Governor of Yamaguchi Prefecture. Thank you very much.

I am the head of the digital society Promotion Headquarters in the National Governors' Association. I would like to make a statement from the perspective of the local people from the position of the head of the headquarters and the position of the governor of Yamaguchi Prefecture. I would like to ask for your cooperation.

With regard to the next Priority plan, I would like to see highly effective initiatives included in order to realize bottom-up growth from local to the whole country by revitalizing Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation by taking advantage of the individuality of area, which area aims to achieve. Today, toward that end, I would like to make remarks on four points, for which there are strong requests from governors throughout Japan. Thank you very much.

The first point is related to the development of infrastructure that supports digitalization. First of all, as you explained earlier, in relation to optical fiber, it was previously planned to increase the household coverage ratio to 99.9% by fiscal 2030, but it was decided to achieve this in fiscal 2027, three years ahead of schedule. I am very grateful for this.

However, in Yamaguchi Prefecture, as of the end of last fiscal year, development has progressed to about 99% of the total. The remaining 1% of the area, for example, is a area with extremely strict development conditions, such as remote islands and deep in the mountains, and the area has the highest hurdles in terms of development. In order to advance development in such a area with extremely strict conditions, more generous support than ever before is necessary, and in order to achieve the front-loaded target, I would like to see the expansion of support included in the plan.

In addition, optical fibers are positioned as a universal service, and the fact that it is being promoted to be covered by the Issue Money Scheme is expected to be a great benefit, especially for area areas with many unprofitable area, so we are very grateful. Financial support based on this scheme will also support development in disadvantaged regions, so we would like to see the realization of this scheme as soon as possible, so we would like to see this also shown in the plan.

In addition, regarding 5G, it is indicated that the population coverage rate will be increased to 95% by the end of fiscal 2023 and to 97% by the end of fiscal 2025. However, in terms of the development of 5G, progress is being made mainly in urban areas, and rural areas are lagging behind.

Last year, I had the opportunity to speak with Minister of State for IT Audrey Tang, and we held a dialogue on the theme of creating digital innovation from the countryside. At that time, I heard from Minister Tang that 5G is being developed in the countryside. I believe that there are many regions in the countryside that need to be solved by digital technology. In order to advance efforts toward that, and to reduce the gap between the countryside and the city and further solidify the flow of people from the city to the countryside, which is now being born, I would like to see the plan include the promotion of 5G development in the countryside without lagging behind the urban Issue.

My second point is about securing and developing digital human resources. In local government, the shortage of digital human resources is remarkable both in the public and private sectors. To give an example in the administrative field, it is said that the government will promote the unification and standardization of regional information systems by the twenty twenty-five, but in small local government in particular, there are internal human resources who will take charge of such matters, and I have heard that there are no external human resources such as private sector companies to consult with. I believe that such a shortage of human resources is highly likely to be a major bottleneck in the promotion of digitalization in the Issue, and I believe that it is a very important region.

In order to solve the shortage of human resources in rural areas, it is important to repatriate human resources who are unevenly distributed in urban areas to rural areas, but the current plan does not include efforts from such a perspective. There are many requests from each prefecture that the national government should create a mechanism to repatriate human resources to rural areas. I would like to see specific measures that can surely generate such a flow considered and incorporated into the plan.

The third point is the enhancement of support systems to support local digitalization. In order to promote digital Issue to solve implementation in local areas, it is necessary to have support systems that enable each area to take effective measures in accordance with its own circumstances.

Under such circumstances, with regard to the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Promotion Issue Fund, the scope of support is limited to initiatives in implementation that utilize services already established in other prefectures. There are many opinions from each area that in order to further enhance the effectiveness of local digital implementation, it will be necessary to expand the scope of support beyond the horizontal deployment of existing technologies. For example, there are surveys to create a mechanism for digital implementation that suits area, initiatives in demonstration experiments, and support for projects that span multiple years rather than a single year.

In light of the aim of area to revitalize local communities while taking advantage of the individuality of Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation, I would like to ask you to consider enhancing the support system for local communities, including reviewing it, so that it will be highly flexible and easy for local communities to tackle.
Finally, the fourth point is related to the improvement of area systems for the development of IT companies in procurement. IT companies in area play important roles in area's digitalization, and considering the future, I think it is necessary to promote the development of IT companies in by securing opportunities to receive orders for information systems.

However, under the current procurement and Harbor Program, development and Harbor Works that are operated for a certain amount of money or more are subject to government procurement and are monopolized by major vendors with high competitiveness, which prevents area companies from receiving orders.

At this conference, President Hirai asked us to consider a mechanism in which local government IT companies can participate in the unification and standardization of area information systems. In order to revitalize area through the growth of area companies, we would like you to consider creating a procurement system that will expand the opportunities for area IT companies to receive orders, and to realize this, we would like you to include the improvement of the system in the plan.

In my opinion, there are four points. We, the National Governors' Association, would like to work together with the development of national measures based on the next plan toward the realization of digital society. To that end, I would like to ask you to formulate a plan that fully takes into account the voices of local governments, including what I have just mentioned.

That's all from me. Nice to meet you.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Mr. Mikitani, please go ahead.

Mikitani: I would like to explain only on the first page of . The world is really about to change fundamentally right now. I thought the Internet revolution would soon settle down after about 30 years, but new things are happening more and more. For example, in quantum computing, it will be put into practical use to some extent by around 2030, and so-called encryption technologies, including the current RSA, will no longer work. Therefore, the development of corresponding security technologies will be extremely important. In addition, definitions that have never been seen before, such as blockchain and NFT, will be increasingly defined. Under these circumstances, I believe that it will be extremely important to determine how many top-class human resources we can truly attract.

As Mr. Joi Ito and others are well aware of what happened during the COVID-19 pandemic, the status of San Francisco is rapidly declining to a level unthinkable three years ago, and it has become the most dangerous town in the United States, as Elon Musk has said that it would be good if the Twitter office were a so-called street people shelter.

I think one of the reasons is that taxes are high. When I talked with Ambassador Emmanuel of the United States, he said that although everything is fine in Japan, no one will come to a place with such high taxes. In other words, in order to attract ultra-advanced digital human resources, if we do not review individual income tax, inheritance tax, and departure tax, no matter how much we try to keep them, all the excellent crypto-related people have gone to Singapore, and the ground is sinking steadily. So, the biggest problem in essence is that taxes are too high. Even in the United States, states with too high taxes are falling rapidly. If we become a work-from-home, the country will become irrelevant, so how to lower taxes is actually important to attract excellent human resources.

Earlier, Mr. Muraoka talked about various human resource issues. Considering that the number of Japanese engineers is only about 20000 a year, I think it is important how to use or bring in foreign Human Resource. One thing is that immigration laws need to be drastically considered.

Second, it says that "blockchains have become national strategies." I believe that Japanese people, especially in Kasumigaseki and Nagata-cho, are aware that Bitcoins and Ethereum are suspicious. They are becoming the core of the economy. In particular, I think that NFT means that all rights can be securitized basically between the private sector and the private sector, so a fundamental review of tax system is necessary. Overseas, in Germany, there is no tax if you hold it for more than one year, and in most countries, it is a capital gains tax, but in Japan, it is recognized as an income tax. There is also a problem that corporate taxation must be reviewed every year.

NFT has an image of digitalization baseball cards, but it is not. It is a digitalization of all rights, blockchain, and trading. So, there will be a really big change. In such a situation, Japanese tax system is behind to an unprecedented extent in the world, and I think it is extremely dangerous.

In terms of support for startups, there are problems, for example, the period during which stock options can be used is short, SPACs cannot be created, and listing of class shares is basically impossible. When I think about the fact that most IPOs in the United States are class shares, I think that even if I start a business in Japan, I will create a company overseas and list it overseas without creating an office. The time has come when the people who actually work for me can stay in Japan.

In the United States, 60-70% of start-ups have already lost their offices. If we don't make Japan an economically advantageous place, including tax, and do business in a way that suits the next era, no matter how much we play the flute in Japan, there will be no people who truly want to be dynamic. Even if I listen to young people, I think the current situation is that most of them go to Singapore because it is stupid to start a business in Japan.

That's all. Thank you.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Then, as we will continue to exchange opinions, anyone is fine. Anything you have said so far is also fine. Anyone is fine.

Natsuno-san, please.

Natsuno Member: . Nice to meet you.

I think it is very important that the Priority plan comes out at this timing.

If we are doing it on the ground in regulatory reform, there are still items that are difficult to advance in regulatory reform due to old customs and pressure from so-called industry groups. It is clear from the response to the novel coronavirus that the delay in regulatory reform and the delay in digitalization are almost equal now. I think it is extremely important to determine how much specific Priority plan can be issued here. In that sense, I believe it is important to write down what we can do and to implement it properly.

What is very important is to reform the awareness of politicians and bureaucrats and the awareness of the people, and there will always be discussions about whether there will be poor people. Therefore, I believe that the Holy Trinity is very important. In that sense, it is very important to formulate a concrete plan and bring it to a form that everyone will agree with. When we actually try to do this, there will always be resistance. Therefore, I recognize that the significance of compiling this plan is much more significant than the similar things we have done so far. Thank you very much.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Then, Mr. Kokuryo, please.

Country Member: This is Country. Hello, everyone.

There are many things, but I would like to make two points.

One is the "Principles for Public-Private Cooperation" on page 10 of Handout 1, which is the second part of my talk on emergencies. I very much appreciate that the Digital Consultation set forth those principles. In order to create a user-friendly system that is tailored to each and every user, as you just mentioned, I will continue to believe that it is extremely important for private service and the government to cooperate with each other. At that time, it is certainly important to consider in advance the possibility of emergencies and disaster risk management.

In fact, I think it is very important how we can publicly support private service and how we can position it. Digital Agency places great importance on in-house production, which is something we respect on the one hand, but in terms of the interface with users and other parts, I think we can provide a total service in cooperation with private sector. In particular, I think it is very important to provide the necessary services to the people while smoothly using private sector's infrastructure even in the event of emergencies or disasters, so I think it is important to flesh out our views on this in a fairly specific form. The NRA has come up with very good principles, and I think it would be good if Priority plan could come up with ideas on how to embody them.

I have been conducting research on a wider range of situations, such as daily life, emergencies, and disasters. However, tools that are not used on a daily basis can hardly be used in times of disasters. Therefore, I think it would be good to consider the situation in normal times as well, rather than considering only emergencies and disasters.

Moving on to the second point, regarding human resources, Mr. Muraoka and Ms. Mikitani mentioned it. I received the lead for working on human resources in the fall, and in order to further advance this, I think it is very good as a measure to include female IT human resources in Priority plan this time. However, I remember that it was a discussion in the fall that if we were to talk about human resources more seriously and systematically, it would be the best Issue. That was what Issue was.

In addition, how to utilize overseas human resources? Of course, it is a national policy, so it is natural to make sure that domestic human resources are deployed in education. In addition, Mr. Muraoka mentioned the development of human resources in rural areas, and you mentioned earlier that you would like to see human resources deployed from the central government to rural areas, but in reality, I think there was talk that the problem is that more and more people are moving from rural areas to Tokyo and metropolitan areas.

To this end, it is necessary to have a comprehensive human resources strategy that includes how to nurture local IT companies. It is almost a fate that the number of items in the government's Priority plan will increase rapidly and it will not be a priority. However, I believe that human resources are positioned as a priority within the priority.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Koshizuka-san, please.

Koshizuka Member: Thank you very much. Also, thank you for the summary of various additional parts on the part of the secretariat.

Just looking at the impression I had when I saw this, or just looking at the fact that this kind of addition is expected to be made in Priority plan from now on, there are a very large number and many types. Amidst this, it is difficult to see the relationship and the overall picture if it is as wide as this. It is also the fate of the place where the Digi-cho was established, and I truly feel that it is this kind of thing that is being done horizontally.

If we look at each issue individually, I think each issue is reasonable, so when we are in the position of sticking cross-sectionally, one thing is that I think the relationship and balance of mutual policies are important as a way to proceed, and this time, the Table of Contents of Priority plan is published to take a bird' s-eye view of this, and I think it is important to discuss the balance and relationship based on it every time.

There are discussions about whether there is a tendency to focus only on specific layers, whether there is really a horizontal approach, and public, semi-public sector, and private sector, but I think there will be discussions about what is going on between them.

At that time, if we proceed with various things, there will be many discussions on individual issues, and there will be many discussions on the front end in the service part that is easy to see, and the back end will gradually become vulnerable. For that reason, I think architecture is important.

With regard to individual issues, I would like to say two things. One is data. Since the establishment of the Digi-cho, education, childcare, disaster risk management, and Digital Garden City have been called data, so there has been a lot of talk about utilizing various data in specific domains, and I think it has been exciting and good. However, in terms of horizontal cooperation, I feel that each issue tends to diverge in different directions.

The first point I would like to make is that discussions on how to create a cross-sectoral data connections and how to connect the public, semi-public sector, and private sector, including the Base Registry, will be more important in the future.

The first point is that there is talk about foreign human resources, and I am also in university, so I am going to make a education. Recently, salaries have been lower in Japan than in other countries. When it comes to recruiting foreign human resources through IT, are salaries too low in Japan? Salaries are much higher in China and the United States, and the best human resources go to those countries with higher salaries. I think it is becoming reality that such good human resources will come to Japan with such low salaries in the first place. In that case, I think we may have no choice but to take the company itself outside, and I don't have an answer right now, but I think it is necessary to consider and discuss such matters.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Ikeda.

Mr. Ikeda: I have been having discussions with Mr. Wakamiya Best regards

First of all, I would like to express my gratitude for the establishment of the Issue Fund for the Promotion of the Digital Garden City Concept, which I mentioned at the plenary session from the local perspective. I would be very grateful if you could continue to support us.

Second, I would like to express my gratitude for the efforts of the people of Digital Agency, who have contributed to the creation of a very dense Priority plan.

On the other hand, as far as I know, it is difficult to say that it has spread to local government and companies of a certain scale, so for example, I would like to have the Minister of Defense issue a strong message to the Governor of private sector, and I would also like to have the cooperation of relevant organizations in Okinawa to further spread the idea.

My third question is about the utilization of My Number System and My Number Card. This city has been making efforts to increase the percentage of Issue, and as of April 1, the percentage of Issue in this city has reached 78%. I feel that we are at the upper limit of what will happen from here, but I would like to respond firmly.

Under such circumstances, in this city, efforts are being made to use the My Number in various places, such as convenience store Issue, online application, shelter check-in, and staff attendance and leave management. However, there are surprisingly many voices from citizens who are saying that it is convenient to use the My Number for identity confirmation in private service, such as Mercari and PayPay.

Therefore, while we will steadily promote the utilization of information in the administration, I believe that we should encourage private sector companies to make use of such information so that the people of Japan can feel the convenience of being close to them.

My fourth question is about support for human resource development. Of course, what the Government of Japan will do is an important issue, but as I have been stating at this conference for a long time, amid the standardization of systems in local government, municipalities are very concerned about human resources, and opinions are being raised about the shortage of human resources in Promotion of DX at meetings for the exchange of opinions among the heads of municipalities in Miyazaki Prefecture, as well as at town and village assemblies.

In that sense, as we proceed with system standardization within a tight schedule, we will of course work hard, but we would like to ask for appropriate support and flexible decisions depending on the situation while listening to local government's voices as needed.

Lastly, from the perspective of the creation and growth of start-up companies, I believe that start-up companies and Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation this time are very compatible. We have high expectations for the creation of new businesses based in local areas, but for example, this city has also had experience in competing with start-up companies. Under such circumstances, I feel that people in private sector are seeking a place for social demonstration.

In that regard, I believe that it would be better if a place for matching local government and start-ups with ambitions could be created, including in terms of conditions such as urban structure.

That's all from me.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Thank you, Wakamiya-san.

Wakamiya Member: Wakamiya. Nice to meet you.

I think it is wonderful, and I think we have already finished all of them, but the most important thing is how we will make efforts to make the people understand this. In short, I think it will be very important from now on in terms of implementation how we will make the people understand that they are anxious because they do not understand, and that they are opposed or passive for the time being.

Second, I would like to point out that in many countries where volunteer activities are being carried out, there are a great many people who are supported by volunteers. Therefore, although I am not a member of the digital reform Volunteer Corps, I am saying that Digital Agency should do its best. I would like you to understand that Okinawa is a member of the United Nations Volunteer Corps and that you are also a member of the United Nations Volunteer Corps, and I would like you to support Okinawa with volunteers.

In addition, as is the case with various forms of cashless payment today, the last thing that will be done is to reduce the burden on the end user. After the start of cashless payment, the hardest part will be the people at the cash register. When I say, "Excuse me, can I use a barcode?" with an apology, they read it and do it unwillingly. That means I have to do it twice. Now, we don't have a smart cash register, so we have more work to do. So, people at the end of the line are reluctant to do it, and customers are reluctant to do it. But when we do something like this, we want to make it so that people at the end of the line can feel the benefits.

Finally, as Mr. Ikeda has just mentioned, when we are asked what kind of benefit there will be to us if we make a digital reform with a goal that has a sense of actual use, I think it would be better to have something easy to understand, although it would be strange to say it is a featured product.

For example, in a place that is relevant to everyone, with an easy-to-understand idea like a digital Health Handbook, if you put the results of the vaccination in there by drag-and-drop, everything can be done, so I think it is an easy-to-understand way to make easy-to-understand featured products that are useful to all people, not to a specific person.

That's all. Thank you.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ota-san.

Member: Thank you, Thank you.

I would like to ask two questions. The first is that Minister Makishima mentioned the term "compass." In terms of vision, I believe that you are seeing something quite clear and wonderful. However, in the course of your daily work, I do not think you have a clear idea of where you are and where you are heading.

So, I'm repeating it a few times like a broken machine, but the satisfaction level that I mentioned earlier. The occupancy rate and satisfaction level can be surveyed in a month, so I would like you to include your current location when you leave Priority plan.

I would like to repeat this, but the e-government in Estonia is famous. In 2012, the satisfaction rate was 67%, and now it is 85%. The Tokyo Metropolitan Government is conducting its own fixed-point observation. Last year, the satisfaction rate was 25%, and the overseas cities we benchmark are 63%, which is exactly the level of Estonia 10 years ago. If you don't know your current location, you will be in trouble. So, I would like you to see the utilization rate and satisfaction rate.

As a good story, I would like to repeat this, but it is an app released by the government. The satisfaction level of Mynaportal is 1.5 out of 5, which is already a failure, but the Individual Number Card Point is 2.2, which is also a failure, but the good story is that the vaccine COVID-19 vaccine certificate app released by the government is 3.6. All of them are on iOS, which is no worse than private sector, and I would like everyone who is participating today to do it, but it can be done in less than 60 seconds. So, with this achievement in mind, I would like you to draw a goal for the satisfaction level and the utilization rate of twenty twenty-five.

At that time, the vaccine COVID-19 vaccine certificate app was probably completed, but I think there are fundamental things that cannot be done. I think there are limits to what can be done on a Juki Net. There are parts that will change due to a big surgical operation called total design, and parts that can be done by properly doing UI and UX, which we have been doing since last year in service design. I think there are risks in the world of utilization and satisfaction, which can be raised by extension of the current situation. I think there are various things that can be seen from the compass of how much utilization and satisfaction will be achieved in two to three years by setting realistic goals. That is my first point.

Another point is that since it is a strategy, I think it is very important to discuss whether resources are sufficient or not.

For example, in Tokyo, the Digital Service Bureau was established in April last year, and the number of personnel was 180 last year. The number of personnel for this fiscal year was 270, which is 1.5 times. As expected, it cannot be done if resources are insufficient. For example, the United Kingdom has issued a data strategy, but the number of data-related personnel alone is about 1,000. There are many figures around here, but I don't think the current number of 600 is sufficient, so I would like you to show us how many personnel will be used.

If we can only have 600 people in various political environments, we need to think about where to focus on with those 600 people. Otherwise, we can't realize it even if we just spread the word. I don't think the relationship between what we want to do and resources will match. I don't think anyone says so much, but this doesn't match.

Therefore, I would like to ask you to include the first and second points, although I believe that this is an extremely basic matter, because I believe that raising human resources at the stage of Priority plan is a set of whether or not results have been achieved and progress has been made from the current location.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Then, Shigekazu, please.

Member: Earlier, there were all kinds of things I was concerned about, and Mr. Koshizuka and others were talking about architecture a little, so I would like to give you some additional opinions. In architecture, new technologies change the architecture of various layers. At present, various technologies such as security, privacy, crypto, Web3.0, and accessibility are being developed. What I am a little worried about is that people who are engaged in production and design, unless they have a deep technical understanding of new materials, try to build the same building as before, and change only the materials later. There is a tendency that people start with the idea of building a one story house first, even though there are concrete, steel, and glass, and attach new materials later. If they postpone the technology, they tend to do so. Therefore, there are many wonderful architects and engineers in Digital Agency, so if they understand the imagination of various uses of technical new materials in various places, such as production teams and design teams, they will be able to talk about new topics in the first place. This is also the case with the story of My Number, but there are new Web3.0 technologies, security, and privacy, so if you can see them and talk about them in the upper layers, I think you can make various interesting innovations.

They think they can make things that other countries can't because they are made at this timing. Of course, it is very important to study what people who have done so far have done, but I also want to do new things.

Human resources are very connected. Recently, I have been feeling the same pain about the salary you mentioned. However, there are many things I can do, and I think cybersecurity is also in Priority plan. There is still no proper university course in cybersecurity. In the undergraduate department, you can enter from network computing and cryptography, but someone who likes self-education will be in charge of cybersecurity, and I think Mr. Murai will be in charge of many courses. In general universities, young people who want to do cybersecurity don't have a proper course, so I think we should definitely do more of that. Even with Web3.0, which is popular now, it takes a long time for universities to incorporate it, so I think we need to think about a free learning path that can incorporate more of these new technologies.

This has been mentioned in various meetings before, but I think open source is very important. This is a course that I can learn various things even if it is not in a university, so it has been discussed in various ways in the United States. For example, if we make about 20% of procurement open source, various skills and budgets will be available in the open source community. Even now, engineers from the Digi Agency participate in open source in their own private time and actually create excellent packages, so such things will be properly recognized. Tools and open source will be one of recruitment and learning opportunities, so of course open source is important economically and in terms of architecture, but I think if there is more proper support for open source in terms of human resource development, it will be successful in various ways.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Now, I have heard the opinions of all the members, so I will ask you to speak in the second round later. In the meantime, I would like to hear the discussions so far and ask the members of the political affairs.

What do you think, Mr. Kobayashi? Now, various things are growing, expectations are high, and it will be new from April, but some members have asked if the people and management are all right. In any case, please feel free to give your comments.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Thank you.

I believe that what Mr. Ohta pointed out is almost the same as what I have always explained in various places, and I believe that the issue of resources is a major issue. While we are firmly securing resources, I believe that it is important to focus on what can be done with the current resources, and that is why I believe it is Priority plan.

Another point is that Digital Agency and Priority plan are very much about pinning down the efforts of other ministries and agencies, or cutting the schedule. In that sense, the resources of other ministries and agencies, the entire government, and public-private partnerships were appreciated, but I would like to work smartly where private sector is able to advance. I believe that what you pointed out today is really true. I would like to manage it by fully reflecting it.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Mr. Makishima, are there any points that you would like to mention in the opinions of the various members that I have just heard?

Makishima Minister for Digital Transformation: Thank you.

It is a public-private partnership, and since April 1, there have been 700 members in Digital Agency, and the first class has been in 12 Nairi, with members from various backgrounds. As Mr. Wakamiya mentioned earlier, I am truly grateful that experts are sent out so that each and every one of the people of Japan can think that they are parties to digital society.

The development of human resources involves cooperation not only with people from Digital Agency, but also with people from other parts of local government who have come to Digital Agency. In addition, the cybersecurity Strategic Headquarters has made a recommendation that there are people with unique talents, especially those who are active or have potential in the cybersecurity field, although they are not included in the educational process at universities, technical colleges, and high schools. We would like to support them.

As I listened to the teachers, I felt that it is important what and how to express the keyword "compass" in the next Priority plan. You have talked about the model of Tokyo from the past, but we have tried to install the idea of agile not only in the construction of systems and services but also in the culture of Kasumigaseki, and we have to find out where the current location is and express it.

Thank you.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

I have a little more time, so I would like to hear additional opinions from the committee members, but I will do so while you think about it.

I think Mr. Koshizuka said that since the scope of the whole is large, we have to think about how to organize it properly, or that resources are limited and what we can do is limited, so we have to focus on somewhere. Actually, I feel that is true.

However, on the other hand, it is very important to think about the ideal image without flinching about what we need to do to create digital society now that the Digi-cho has been established in this country. If we narrow down only this one from among them now, there is a little concern that no one will be able to think about the whole picture or architecture again. In any case, since it is from September, it is still possible to make a kind of excuse for startups.

Then, as in this interim period, when a new organization is created, I think it will learn various things from it and gradually become a full-scale system. In that sense, after a little bit of work, this has happened, so we have to do this much. I thought it would be good to focus on this area and move forward with the next Priority plan.

Another point is that Mr. Muraoka from the Regional local government talked about infrastructure. Infrastructure is very good, but it was 20 years ago that we rolled the screws for infrastructure in the world. In that sense, I think it is better to think about what and how to prepare for a new era of all people and all area. In addition, the Digi-cho is responsible for networks and systems, so I think the Digi-cho must be able to create a model of how to create the best or safest system for cybersecurity, as you pointed out earlier.

In that sense, it is the cybersecurity that is responsible for the organization of important systems, or the region that is responsible for moving government networks, so we will set an example that the quality there is the highest. I think that leadership in infrastructure and safety can be taken from here, and I thought that was the responsibility.

Natsuno-san, please raise your hand.

Natsuno Member: , one way of suggesting that it is too wide, is that I am holding the regulatory reform Conference, and in fact, Digital Agency has been established, and Priority plan has come out, so regulatory reform is also making great progress. It is partly because Mr. Makishima and Mr. Kobayashi are working together, but rather than saying that we should do our best to promote regulatory reform and digitalization at one point, the Digital Garden City Initiative has come out, the Digital Rincho has come out, and Digital Agency has come out. If we try to destroy individual and specific projects in regulatory reform, the ministries and agencies cannot resist, or rather, the atmosphere of the ministries and agencies will really change.

This is not because Mr. Makishima and Mr. Kobayashi are holding more than one post, but because there are bureaucrats working in each place, so even if Digital Agency does not work hard alone, at least in terms of digitalization of administrative procedures, Digital Agency will tell us the general outline and ask us to create a system, and regulatory reform will attack institutional reform of existing mechanisms.

However, since the goals are the same, from various aspects, I feel that in the past year or so, we have been able to push the competent authorities into a position where they have no choice but to move.

In that sense, among the items in Priority plan, there are always things that only Digital Agency can do, but I think there are quite a few items that may be led by people other than Digital Agency. With regard to such items, it just so happens that there is a decent Deputy Director-General as a counterpart, and it is greatly affected by the very nature of the individual, but I think it is necessary to use such items better or strategically, and to make them lead the way, and to broaden the scope of the items that will be attended by the members of the Committee.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Then, Ota-san, please.

Member: Thank you, Thank you.

In addition, I would like to make a proposal on how to proceed. In the broad sense of agile, which Minister Makishima mentioned, where Senior Vice-Minister Kobayashi mentioned should be focused. I happened to come up with this during a discussion with the Taiwanese side this week. After all, we will start with about 60 points, and if things don't go well, we will change the position, which is called the pivot. To put it in a slightly different language, I think that unless we work in a way that allows failure, we will not proceed.

This always works, so there is no talk of narrowing down and doing this much. I think we swing the bat and swing it seven times. If I try to score 120 points, I can't swing the bat, so I can't hit without swinging the bat. So, I will allow a failure. To give you two specific examples, for example, one is about Digita. Regarding the Type 1 and Type 2 social implementation of Digita, it is not allowed to change the application at all. As the Governor of Yuzaki says, it is natural to find out that something like this does not work after trying it, so I would like you to operate it so that it is okay to change it in the middle of the process. It is also important to properly summarize the failures of the services created by Digital Agency in semi-public sector. The satisfaction level of jGrants, created by the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, is 70% when measured in development. However, the first one failed badly, and I gathered people from in an underground lecture hall two years ago to review the failure.

Kasumigaseki is not very good at this, so I think the opportunity will open up when the top management tells us to pivot if we fail, to proceed in a way that allows us to do so, or to learn from it by summarizing it properly, and it will take root properly.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

I also think it is a cultural thing. I don't allow mistakes, and officials can't make mistakes. That's true, I think there were cases where they didn't make mistakes because they just started and didn't evaluate them. In addition, there were quite a few places like university research funds, but that has changed. The JST program I was working on for 10 years has gradually become a way of thinking about how to allow changes in the middle of the program. I wonder if it was bound by rules, but it was made up of bureaucratic culture, so I think it can be changed properly.

So, of course, there are such expectations. In particular, in the digital field, if we use Web3.0 today, we can do this kind of thing. I think there will be many different things when we try it. If we include such ways properly, I think the things you just mentioned will be important.

Mr. Kobayashi, please.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital : Based on what you just pointed out, as Mr. Natsuno pointed out, I think it is very significant that Digital Agency has a place called the Digital Consultation with Mr. Makishima, and as Mr. Ohta pointed out earlier, it is about how to create an atmosphere of tolerating failure, or rather, a culture. In fact, I think there are many things that are created by rules. As Mr. Ohta said earlier, the application requirements of the Issue Fund do not recognize Agile, and the civil service system and personnel evaluation do not recognize it. As we talked about resources earlier, from the perspective of other countries' Digital Agency existence, which is used as a benchmark, it is natural that there should be several thousand people, but I don't think there are rules for building flexible civil service systems and organization structures that can secure the necessary resources in about a year.

Actually, it is important to change this structural issue here, and I believe that the current system under Minister Makishima can do this in an integrated manner.

In that sense, I believe that many of you pointed out that we need to do something about structural problems rather than about the system, so I would like to finish it firmly.

At the same time, when we think about allowing agile to fail and turn it over to the next, I think it is very important that it is properly done in visualization. It is important that we can see it numerically, but it is also important that organization management can see it properly and give feedback appropriately.

In that regard, we are currently holding all-hands meetings in Digital Agency and holding one on-one meetings on a regular basis. We are also taking on the challenge of organization management, which has never been seen in Kasumigaseki. Even though we have just started, we would like to make it a organization that can embody the parts that have been completely lacking in Kasumigaseki. I would like to thank you very much for your suggestions on how to operate and how to proceed. I would appreciate it if you could give us your advice.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

I think it is important that the Digi-cho creates a good model and a new style, and that the way of cooperation between the public and private sectors has a positive impact on other public office, in addition to the system, such as the way various public servants should be, the way public office should be, and the lives of public servants.

When I was analyzing the situation in Ukraine and engaged in various cyber discussions, there was a discussion about why the Five Eyes could not become the Six Eyes. It was interesting. The reason why the Five Eyes are sharing the situation of what happened this time is that it is Slack. We are sharing all the information in real time on Slack, and we were told about it by e-mail. Is it true that DigiAgency is now able to use Slack? We are trying to expand it to each public office, so in any case, I thought it would be good if it could be a leader in that sense.

In addition, what Mr. Wakamiya pointed out has not been discussed much, so I would like to point out a little. Unless everyone is aware that each and every one of the people is a party to DX, the concept of not leaving anyone behind cannot be achieved. It is necessary for each department to take a fairly detailed and flexible response, and I think that the active participation of the local local government is necessary for everyone, especially the local local government. What do you think about what Mr. Wakamiya pointed out?

Mr. Ikeda: I have been having discussions with Mr. Wakamiya in various places. As I said earlier, in the local local government, it is very important how we can make the citizens feel the benefits of digitalization.

In particular, what I am always thinking about is that there are people who are not interested in digitalization at all. Unfortunately, I believe that about 20% of people in any region are not interested in such things. On the other hand, there are of course young people who are doing such things more and more even if they are left alone, but there are also elderly people. I think it would be good if you could do more and more on your own, but what I always think is the most target is how to rescue people who want to do something but do not know what to do or how to approach it, and who have motivation but do not know how to do it. I always talk with my staff members about this.

In this city, we are working with mobile phone companies to teach elderly people how to use mobile phones steadily using national mechanisms. First of all, we would like to do furoshiki for all citizens, but we are working to expand it to the whole by saving people who are particularly motivated but cannot easily start it. I think this is an important function of the local local government.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Wakamiya-san, please.

Wakamiya Member: Is that what you just said? For example, I don't know the receiver. It's the same in the case of volunteers, but even if I want to do volunteer work, I don't know who to tell or how to tell them.

So, for example, there is such a section in the public office of the city, and if I talk to them, they will ask me to do volunteer work, but I don't want to have to pass the phone to the public office of the city, so I would appreciate it if Mr. local government could take care of the details, but I think it is really important for everyone to participate.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, First of all, I think it is difficult because there is a large amount of information, such as everything that is noticed is conveyed to the people or even to the service of the administrative window, and it is necessary to always have a system in which such two way reactions are properly received.

I also talk about the Digi-cho service, but when I see a good public service around the world, they persistently ask me to tell them my opinion on this service from the beginning, so I have no choice but to tell them if I find it inconvenient. If you collect it, it becomes quite a knowledge, and there is a local local government that does this. However, it is really well done in the world. I don't say that everything is valuable information because you can collect what you notice from people, but I think that it is also very important because you can always get the sense that you are participating in it.

Then, do you have any other opinions? It doesn't have to be related to this. If there is anything you have left to say. Is that okay?

Then, I would like to ask what you will do next, so I will hand it over to the Secretariat and ask you to come back again.

Go ahead.

Secretariat: This is the Office.

Next, I would like to ask Chairman Murai to be the moderator of agenda 2.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, I was going to do that. Thank you.

Secretariat: This is the I'm sorry. I would like to explain the topic of Material 2 below.

As we did in Priority plan last time, we would like to use the Idea Box to solicit opinions from the people. Specifically, we would like to invite opinions from the day after this meeting, tomorrow, until May 5.

If you look at page 2, as a theme, what do you expect from the realization of "A digital society where no one left behind" here? Also, as you discussed earlier, what do you think is necessary for the creation and growth of start-up companies? In addition, on the next page, "Towards the Realization of a Prosperous digital society," I would like to cover a wide range of topics and hear your opinions.

That's all for the material explanation. Thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Since I have returned, I would like to ask if there is anything you have left to say. Is it all right?

Natsuno-san, please.

Natsuno Member: I have a question. What kind of response do you give to the person who put it in the Idea Box? Don't you give individual responses?

Secretariat: This is the When we created this Priority plan last December, we used the Digital Agency Idea Box to listen to the voices of the people of Japan. We summarized and presented it at the Concept Conference, and at the same time, we reflected the content in Priority plan. This was the last move. Similarly, this time, when we hold the next meeting, we plan to present the results of this opinion solicitation to you, and we plan to incorporate the necessary opinions when the Secretariat creates the draft.

Natsuno Member: ?

Secretariat: This is the It is not done individually.

Natsuno Member: How many of these are there? Rough is fine.

Secretariat: This is the Last time, we received about 500 cases per 100 cases.

Natsuno Member: If it is that much, I would like you to return it with a word, not just a thank you for your valuable suggestion.

If I return such a thing in the name of Minister Makishima, I don't think I will receive a reply, so I will be happy if I receive a reply. You just mentioned that you would like to obtain the understanding of the people of Japan, but I think that if I return it to the person who is taking action in a way that is like a party concerned, I will surely increase my number of friends, so I would like you to reply. I think I can make a sentence that is not a prepared template, so I would like to ask for your cooperation.

Secretariat: This is the I understand. Thank you.

Secretariat: This is the Secretariat. Both last time and this time, we only received them anonymously, so it was difficult to return them. However, based on the guidance of the Committee members, we will earnestly consider whether we can return them to those who want to return them, or in any case, we will consider and proceed with the matter based on the purpose so that people can understand more carefully that it was reflected in this way as a whole. Thank you very much.

Natsuno Member: Nice to meet you.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Wakamiya-san, please.

Wakamiya Member: Regarding the questionnaire, I think it is very important.

However, when I do a survey, only people with a certain level of skill get answers. When I did a web survey in Estonia, I was worried about that, so I asked young people to answer the survey on behalf of their fathers, mothers, grandfathers, and grandmothers if they couldn't write. I was able to get data from a wide range of people.

Even if you use smartphone, you can communicate with your family on LINE, but it is quite difficult to answer such a questionnaire. I would like to hear the opinions of people who think that the threshold is high. I don't know if it is this time, but I would like you to be creative about that when you conduct such a questionnaire in the future.

Thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, . That's a wonderful opinion.

Do you have anything else?

If you don't mind, I would like you to look at the table of contents at the beginning of what was decided last time in Priority plan. The direction of Table of Contents 2 was decided at this meeting, Priority plan was decided, and as Minister Makishima said at the beginning, parts 1 to 6 were worked out by working groups and others, and based on that, measures were formulated, and as a result, various moves were made. This is the yellow part.

In other words, only six months have passed since then. The Priority plan will be decided this time, but I heard that it will be changed because various circumstances have changed. So, it is not that we will be divided into working groups and thoroughly reconsider all of this, but I heard that we will discuss some amendments and additions to the previous one, and we have already started work on that.

Next, we will gather again around the middle of May, but if we do not send out a Priority plan immediately after that, we will not be able to make it in time for the next budget. What we are saying is that it will take only about one month, and the administration will need to prepare based on your opinions today.

I feel very sorry for the members of the Secretariat, but I would like to create a chance to listen to your opinions somewhere, and I don't know how much I can reflect them, but I would like to create a place where we can discuss without permission so that it will not be a burden on the members of the Secretariat who are preparing as much as possible. I don't know if it will be a timing where all of them can be reflected, but I would like to thank you for being prepared and thinking that if something very important is pointed out, it may be included. I personally have such a plan, so I would like to ask you again. Maybe, I will ask you personally.

If you do not have any other opinions, I would like to ask you to summarize and speak at the end.

Makishima Minister for Digital Transformation: Thank you very much.

I think I received many valuable opinions today.

As Mr. Murai has just stated, we need to create a Priority plan again in a short period of time. We are working with you not only at this conference, where you will confirm in writing and give us ideas, but also during the period before and after the conference. I will ask you to do so for a while. I hope to send a clear message to the people of Digital Agency and digital society.

Even in Priority plan at the end of last year, there would be few people who would read dozens of pages of Priority plan, so I have made efforts to make it as close as possible to you by creating an outline version and including pictures in it.

The other day, a person with visual impairment said that the outline was very easy to read and understand, and I think I need to give feedback to the teachers. We are also making an English version and continuing to communicate globally, but I would like to ask for your continued guidance toward the summer.

Thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to stay with us until the end. We look forward to working with you in the future.

I think you will contact me again, but I would like to make an opportunity to talk to you again. Thank you.

Thank you very much.