7th digital society Concept Conference

Overview

Date and time: April 25, 2023 (2023) (Tue) from 16:30 to 18:00
Location: Online
Agenda:
1. Opening
2. Proceedings
  1. Revision Points and Table of Contents (Draft) in Priority plan in Fiscal 2023
3. Adjournment

Conference Video

The conference is available on YouTube (Digital Agency official channel).

Materials

Minutes

Secretariat: As it has become a fixed time, the "digital society Concept Conference" will be held from now on.

I'm Yoshida-san from Digital Agency. I'm in charge of the secretariat. Nice to meet you.

Today, the meeting will be held online. This meeting itself will be held online in a form that is open to the press and everyone else based on the operating guidelines, with the confirmation of the chairman. I would like to report that the press are attending the meeting online.

In addition, there was a change in the position of Mr. Kawabe in the reference materials, so I will replace this with this report.

I am aware that eight members are scheduled to attend online today. I have heard that Member Kawabe, Member Kuniryo, Member Natsuno, and Member Muraoka will be absent, and Member Mikitani will leave during the day, but he has not participated yet. I have heard that Member Koshizuka will participate during the day.

In addition, Minister Kono and Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Okushi from Digital Agency attended the meeting.

So, from here on, Mr. Murai, nice to meet you.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, . Thank you for taking the time to join us today.

Then, I would like to start right away. First of all, Mr. Minister for Digital Transformation Kono would like to say a few words.

Minister for Digital Transformation Kohno: Thank you, . Thank you very much for taking the time to attend the digital society Concept Conference. I would like to express my deepest gratitude to Chairman Murai and all the members.

At the previous Concept Meeting, we received valuable opinions on the importance of realizing digital transformation, of not only the perspective of providers but also the perspective of users, that is, the perspective of the people, and of the international perspective, toward the revision of Priority plan this fiscal year to realize digital society.

This time, the Secretariat will continue to show the points for the revision of Priority plan and the draft table of contents for the revision. After receiving your opinions on this, since the last meeting, for example, AI has been discussed without waiting or its use has been progressing, so I am looking forward to today's discussion.

I would like to place an order on Priority plan. The content of Priority plan will be examined based on the discussions at the Concept Conference, but I would like to make the plan easy-to-understand for the people of Japan, and in the true sense, I would like to make it a substantial plan by narrowing down the points. In revising the plan, I have been giving instructions to the Secretariat to this effect in the text and the work schedule, so I would like to ask for your understanding of this.

At today's meeting, we would appreciate if you could continue to give us your frank opinions from a broad perspective toward the revision of Priority plan this summer. Thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, .

Then, I would like to start the discussion right away. Today's agenda is "Revision Points and Table of Contents (Draft) for Priority plan in fiscal 2023." I would like you to discuss the revision points and the draft table of contents here in advance, incorporate them again, and discuss them in the direction of finalizing the proposal here at the next meeting, as you just mentioned. Thank you.

Now, I would like to ask the secretariat to explain Material 1 in terms of the revision points of Priority plan and the draft table of contents.

Secretariat: . Nice to meet you. I will explain based on the materials.

Please turn to page 1. I am writing this article based on the viewpoints received from the members toward the Priority plan revision in fiscal 2023, the "X" in DX, in short, the fact that transformation and reform are extremely necessary, and the "demand-side perspective in addition to the supply-side perspective." In particular, this article is written based on the "study of architecture based on cooperation with private business and cooperation between systems through API" at the bottom, as well as the opinions received in advance. In addition, in terms of the "international perspective," I would like to consider these three perspectives as perspectives that penetrate the points of Priority plan that I will mention next.

Please turn to the next page. Compared to when I consulted with you in advance, points 1 to 8 overlap with, for example, the "X" of DX, the perspective of the demand side, and the perspective of the people. When considering any of them, the "X" of DX is necessary, and the perspective of the people is also necessary. In the end, it seems to cover all of them. To summarize, when thinking about these matters, reform is also necessary, and the perspective of the people is also necessary. So, the materials are not very clear, but I would like to think about them in this way.

The following pages are the key points. I will introduce them in two pages.

First of all, in terms of setting indicators from the perspective of the people, we will collect and share data on users, etc., and use it as indicators. We will collect indicators and data that will serve as the base in the field of data-based policy decisions. We will start with My Number Card, but we will consider and gradually expand other policies in My Number Card.

The second is My Number System, which was also mentioned by the committee members last time, and My Number Card. I believe that My Number Card will use the so-called Public Personal Authentication, etc., but in terms of expanding the use of each method, more than 75% of the people in My Number Card have applied for it, and the infrastructure has been developed significantly. Based on this, we would like private business in particular to use the method as the best digital means of identity verification, and we would like to expand such use.

In addition, regarding the My Number, which is an ID that uniquely identifies individuals, we are currently passing a law in the National Assembly, and thank you very much for your cooperation at the public hearing. Today, the committee is voting on it. With this bill to revise the law, the scope of use will be expanded from three fields and will be regulated by law. We will continue to promote My Number System.

3. As part of "Creating a Mechanism for Realizing a Society Utilizing Digital Technology," Digital Extraordinary Administrative Advisory Committee has created a process chart for the review of the 10,000 provision in regulations on paper and in-person processes, and we will actually follow it and implement it within two years. Following this has been a very significant progress.

It is a system architecture that will deliver convenience to four points of people at an early stage, a system foundation that supports it, or a system foundation premised on it. Although it is called "data sharing platform," we will review the system architecture with the aim of providing public services promptly in cooperation with private service.

In addition, as stated in the fourth and subsequent lines, while keeping the overall system architecture in mind, we would like to firmly establish a foundation for the standardization of systems in Government Cloud, Government Solution Services (GSS), and local governments.

Please turn to the next page. In order to "promote DX, etc. in industry, area, and individual fields," we will advance semi-public sector such as medical care and disaster risk management, digitalization of transactions such as Peppol e-invoice, comprehensive cooperation fields such as data space construction with an eye to the future, and government procurement reforms such as digital marketplaces, and we will further advance the "X" part of digital transformation and DX. In this regard, we will enhance digital competitiveness in each industry, including the utilization of AI that I will mention next.

In addition, I believe that it is also an important initiative to provide various necessary services using data in Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation and to expand them horizontally.

Part 6 is that, as the Minister mentioned, it is necessary to promote government-wide discussions on AI utilization policies and data strategies, and that data strategies, such as a review of the base registry, will also be reviewed.

The seventh is the "Establishment of an International Public-Private Partnership Framework," which will be discussed in G7 Digital Tech Ministers' Meeting at the G7 Digital and Technology Ministers' Meeting this weekend, and I believe we will move forward with this.

The eighth point is "strengthening control tower functions and systems." In order to actually implement the measures firmly, I believe it is necessary to strengthen Digital Agency's development capabilities, human resources for project promotion systems, and cooperation with related organizations that will support them. In addition, even if Digital Agency alone strengthens its human resources and systems, it will not make progress. Therefore, it is necessary to actually strengthen the digital promotion systems of each ministry and have each ministry make solid efforts, and it is also necessary to secure and develop digital human resources for Japan as a whole.

These are the points for the revision.

Next, the table of contents for Priority plan is on page 6. The points I just mentioned are what I believe to be particularly important and what I aim to achieve in Priority plan. In addition, in Priority plan, not only Digital Agency but also the Cabinet Office and each Ministry will make a Cabinet decision on measures that they believe to be important in relation to digital in the future, so there are various parts such as the third, fourth, and fifth measures.

In addition, some parts have been revised based on the opinions of the members in advance of the previous meeting. In particular, the deficit will change from last year. However, even if the table of contents does not change, the content will be brushed up and necessary matters will be updated. Therefore, a new one will be created as a whole.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Then, I would like to ask for your opinions. First of all, may I ask you to start with Mr. Mikitani, who will leave in the middle of the meeting?

Mikitani Member: I am sorry that I have to leave the room in the middle of the day due to my next schedule.

I believe that digitalization is really important, but I think that what we do for is a means, not a purpose. I think that the purpose is, for example, economic growth or convenience, but it is also important that costs fall. What tends to happen is that the economy does not rise after all because it becomes a double cost. By creating something halfway, it actually becomes more inconvenient, and it becomes a double cost and redundancy.

In the world, I think the evolution of AI will really progress geometrically. From the perspective of digitalization, I think it is about how much digital power should be raised. When I talked with Minister Kono the other day, he said that it is difficult to secure digital human resources. Then, how to attract human resources is, for example, if you receive a high salary, you will feel that nearly half of it will be taken away by taxes (personal income taxes and resident taxes). I think people whose maximum tax rate is 55% will not come to Japan. If it were a sport, it would be a world like baseball, even though there are no players, so I think one major point is how to bring digital human resources into Japan. The quality of human resources is insufficient, but the number is also insufficient.

The biggest problem, which may not be directly related to today's theme, is that countries with too high taxes will not develop. Over the past 30 years, the GDP of the United States has quadrupled, and I believe that this is one of the biggest reasons why Japan is stagnating.

In addition, regarding the thorough implementation of digital principles, there is a problem that is often seen in the country, that is, the general principle is OK and the specific principle is NO. For example, we have been fighting over the online sale of pharmaceuticals requiring guidance. The online sale of pharmaceuticals requiring guidance, digitalization, which has allowed the exception of regulation, is symbolic, so I think it is good to handle it. By completely completing it digitally, it will become online medical consultation, and the universal service of medical care will be realized, and the cost of medical care, which is a large financial burden on the nation, can be reduced. I think this is one of the big points in this digitalization.

Also, I think the KYC by My Number Card that was mentioned in today's explanation is very good, but regarding the point of having a card, to be honest, I think a card is unnecessary. It may be a discussion that should not be intruded on, but is a physical medium called a card really necessary? Times have changed, so I think it is better to think about it.

In addition, identity verification by My Number Card is good, but it should be positioned as one of the options for convenience. Although it is not always possible without it, I believe that some people may not be able to obtain it for various reasons. Therefore, I believe that it should be used only as one of the options and that it is possible to use it because it is convenient.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Mr. Mikitani will be leaving the office in the middle of the meeting, so I would like to ask if the Secretariat has any comments on Mr. Mikitani's reaction or reaction during the discussions. What is the response from the Digital Agency side?

Secretariat: . Thank you very much.

As for the card, I would not go so far as to say that I would lose the card, but the function of the Public Personal Authentication will be installed in the smartphone. For example, I will be able to use the function of the Mynaportal by pressing down on the smartphone without hitting the card each time, and I will be able to confirm my identity. The card function will be installed in the smartphone, and I will start with the Android phone after the holidays.

However, since identity verification using a card is the Trust Anchor, I would like to make it possible to do various things using a smartphone as much as possible, although the starting point is to issue a card because identity verification will be done there at least once.

Also, as for tax system, I'm sorry, but I think it's quite tough here.

In addition, with regard to digital human resources, in fact, there was talk of digital human resources at the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Conference, and the Government as a whole is talking about developing human resources, but I would like to set a goal and work on it.

Mikitani Member: What is actually happening at our company is that we have development bases in Singaporeans and Indians, but not so many Japanese bases. We are talking about who will come to a country with such high taxes. If this problem is not solved, digital human resources will not come, and digitalization will not advance. To be honest, I think this is the main reason.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Today, we are discussing the table of contents. In the previous discussion, experts discussed the connection with the My Number, the presence or absence of cards, and the utilization of the My Number after cards have become so popular. I think that is reflected in the table of contents.

If there are any other comments from the Secretariat or the Digi-cho, I will visit you before Mr. Mikitani leaves the room. Is that all right?

Mikitani Member: I think it is about realizing a society using digital technology, but in the end, the face-to-face principle comes back like a zombie. After a few years, when the heat has cooled down, it seems that this will have to be face-to-face.

Since we have made Digital Agency, we would like you to break through it. Unless you thoroughly understand that there are no exceptions to the digital principle, as I said earlier, if both digital and analog are left, it will be a double cost, and in the end, it will be a cost increase, and we will not know what we are doing. I think we are basically doing it to reduce the cost, so I would like to ask you to do it without exceptions.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, I see. I think it is a cost issue that you mentioned at the beginning, so I would like you to take it seriously. Thank you very much.

Mikitani Member: Thank you very much. Good-bye.

(Exit of Member Mikitani)

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Then, since we have received opinions from Member Muraoka, who is absent today, in Material 2, could the Secretariat introduce this?

Secretariat: In document 2, we received three opinions from Gov. Muraoka of Yamaguchi prefecture.

The first is about transition to local government using Government Cloud in local standard compliance system. It is necessary to make efforts to ensure that all local government can be transition by twenty twenty-five. We would like to ask for environmental improvement for that. In particular, we would like to ask for consideration in the revision of Priority plan so that the required amount will be surely supported by the Digital infrastructure Reform Support Subsidy so that there will be no financial burden.

Also, in relation to My Number Card, the application rate is 76.8%, and it is in the stage of utilization. Even in Yamaguchi Prefecture, it is more than 80%, and various utilization is scheduled, so when revising Priority plan, Digital Agency, which is the control tower, will take the lead in promoting efforts to make the people feel more convenience in cooperation with related ministries and agencies. Please state that efforts using My Number Card in local government will be expanded, and that support to local government by subsidy for the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation and others will be strengthened for this purpose.

Lastly, with regard to AI, I would like to ask you to clarify the direction of future efforts, including the formulation of guidelines, regarding the utilization of AI, positioning it in Priority plan because it is necessary to firmly utilize the cutting-edge technology of generative AI to create new services and value. Since there are various Issue at present, I would like to ask you to clarify the direction of future efforts, including the formulation of guidelines, regarding the utilization of AI.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

We will continue to listen to the opinions of other members. It is fine for anyone to raise their hands as usual.

Mr. Ito, please.

Ito: , I would like to get into the details instead of the table of contents. I wanted to respond a little to Mr. Mikitani earlier. Maybe it wasn't on purpose, but I think the person who made it was on purpose. My Number Card is actually a really excellent digital wallet. At the Ethereum hackathon last week, you showed Japanese developers using My Number Card to authenticate and sign Web3.0 wallets. This time, Ethereum also proposed a new authentication mechanism called Account Abstraction. By proposing this, you can receive NFT even if you do not have an account in My Number Card, and My Number Card itself can be used as a digital wallet. You can do this by tapping on your mobile phone, so in fact, as an authentication system, the content is quite good.

So, the good thing about My Number Card is that if you lose your My Number Card and issue another one from the country, the certification authority can check that it is properly connected. So, now if you lose your passphrase with Meta Mask or something, you lose all your money, but if you design a wallet that believes in the Japanese country, the country can recover, so in fact, Web3.0 and My Number Card are very compatible. So, people who have a My Number Card already have a Web3.0 wallet, there is a design.

Therefore, I think it is a great opportunity to spread My Number Card to people who want to do Web3.0, so there are various details such as whether design or the government decides the function of the one to-one rewriting algorithm between the public key of the My Number and the Ethereum wallet, or whether private sector decides it. This was very good, and I think there were many people who thought that if it was the Web3.0 community a few years ago, the government's ID would be used for authentication. Now, everyone is becoming more practical, and it is a great opportunity that the Ethereum community took it much more positively than expected. Thinking in that direction, the problem is that My Number Card itself has various kinds of personal data printed on it. Today's My Number Card has an API that allows you to see the photos and contents properly if you spread it. Therefore, in the medium to long term, I think that if My Number Card itself uses a digital wallet that does not have anything written on it, such as a regular wallet like Ledger, there will be no risks of walking with a card.

The QR Code is also a QR Code for the My Number number, so if someone takes a picture of it, they will take the My Number number with them. So, I think it is possible to think again about what is actually printed and use My Number Card as a wallet. I understand what Mr. Mikitani is saying, but if you shift the purpose to the side, I think it is actually a very valuable hard design, so I think it would be good to consider it somewhere.

I'm sorry for the small details.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, . I think this is a very important point of view.

Then, Mr. Ikeda, may I ask you a favor?

Member: In the case of the city of . I'm Ikeda. Nice to meet you.

There have been various discussions, but I would like to make four main points.

My first question is that it has been one year since Priority plan was established, but it has been only one year since it was established, and we are feeling the penetration of digital into society. I would like to express my gratitude to the people of Digital Agency for their efforts. We, the people, are beginning to recognize that digital is an important direction for Japan, but on the other hand, there are parts where the creation of parts that the people feel are convenient has not yet made progress. In that sense, coordination between ministries and agencies and cooperation among industry, academia, and government are naturally necessary, but Digital Agency's roles as a control tower will become increasingly important, so I would like to ask you to do so.

In particular, I believe that strengthening the system in Digital Agency is of course important, so I would be grateful if we in local government could actively strengthen the system in that way.

In addition, we are currently dispatching personnel from local government to Digital Agency and one staff member from this city to Digital Agency. I believe that this will lead to the development of digital human resources and the development of digital human resources among the few digital human resources in local areas. I also believe that this will be one powerful channel that can be shared between the country and the city, so I would be very grateful if you would continue to open your doors in Digital Agency.

The second point is that I was unable to attend the previous preliminary review, but when our office attended, I heard that Mr. Wakamiya pointed out that the culture of mail and seal in public office has not changed. I think the response varies depending on the local government, but in this city, we have set a policy to make all administrative procedures online in principle, and more than 300 procedures are now online, so I would like to steadily advance this.

In addition, the other day, Digital Agency made efforts to provide an online payment function for Mynaportal's online application, and we started the service as the first user in implementation. In particular, since there are many requests from residents outside the city, we believe that online application and payment are leading to improved services. Local local government will continue to make small efforts from the viewpoint of consumers to promote convenience for citizens.

My third question is that in response to the fact that online payment has become possible, we have asked vendors of claim management systems such as family registry to change the wording so that we can respond to online payment, but there are responses that we cannot respond because we do not have the resources to respond to standardization, and as a result, we are forced to respond in an analog manner, such as by affixing a rubber stamp. There are some distorted parts due to the rapid progress in digitalization, but I believe it is necessary for you to carefully understand the situation so that there are no such obstacles.

Lastly, as a point of revision this time, we have high expectations that generative AI using a large-scale language model has great potential for administrative use, but I believe that it is necessary to develop rules, particularly in the case of handling sensitive administrative data. Yesterday, I heard news reports that the relevant ministries and agencies held their first meeting, but some people in local government say that it is difficult to determine which ministries and agencies are responsible, so I would be very grateful if Digital Agency would take the lead in presenting the framework and schedule for consideration.

That's all from me. Thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Mr. Ikeda, I would like to ask one question. In the current GtoG relationship between Digital Agency or the central government and the local local government, for example, the local local government will notice the rubber stamp at some point. At that time, it will be possible to communicate it smoothly, and from the Digi-Cho side, it will be possible to incorporate it and take action for improvement. I think this is the so-called GtoG process. I think it is related to Mr. Mikitani's double cost story. What do you think of the Issue?

Member: In the case of the city of , for example, when such a situation occurs, our employees are also in Digital Agency, so I think there is more cooperation between our employees, or between our employees and people in Digital Agency than in other local government. I think it is much faster in this city than in other local government to communicate such an event and lead to improvement. On the other hand, within the current framework, for example, in the case of the city, in the process of taking up such a Issue at the Japan Association of City Mayors, there are some procedural aspects, so it is a little slow to communicate with a sense of speed, so we are improving these aspects. In our case, we are using both of them to raise the status of Issue as a whole city to the government. We are also using two tools to directly communicate specific individual matters and ask for improvements.

If I think of this as a cost, I feel that it will be a bit of a cost. However, at present, there are direct tools in Miyakonojo as I mentioned earlier, so I personally do not feel that much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, I see, thank you very much.

Since the perspective of the people is the main theme this time, I think that local local government will be more aware of it. I think that it is important to have a system, contact point, and pass that lead to DX measures fairly smoothly and quickly, so I would like you to think in a direction that it will proceed well. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ota-san.

Member: My name is Ohta . I would like to make a statement.

I have been proposing the number one indicator from the perspective of the people among the eight priority items this time, and I think it is very good that it has been included. As I have been saying, as a result of DX "X," medical care, nursing care, and education services in public service and semi-public sector will improve, so I think it is better to get the satisfaction level properly. If you take a look at the satisfaction level by field, for example, tax payment can be easily done using My Number Card on a smartphone with e-Tax, so the satisfaction level will change and increase, and unfortunately, it will not change. So, please take this opportunity to do it. As I introduced, the Tokyo Metropolitan Government is already conducting fixed point observation, and we will be raising "X" in structural reforms in the form of Shin Tosei. If you look at the site called Shin Tosei, it will be close to the outcome because it is a dashboard, and you will be able to see whether "X" is really happening and whether we are close to the target. So, please take a look at the Digital Agency site. The dashboard only shows the number of My Number cards and the number of public fund receiving account, so you will be asked to write down the number close to the outcome on the dashboard. You will also be asked to show the key items that lead to the outcome.

For example, if Exhibit 2 is changed due to the revision of the My Number Act this time, information linkages, which took three years, will not be completed in one year. Therefore, I would like to ask you to put forward positive outcomes that will improve public service, so that the people can easily understand what is happening and see the progress.

Second, as I mentioned earlier, in comparison with the Government Digital Service in the United Kingdom, which I briefly mentioned earlier, I am conducting a case study at a university and receiving an interview. First of all, the Digi-cho is attracting attention from outside. I think this is a good thing, but it is clear that compared to the GDS, the ATF, and the UGDS in the United States, it is seen from outside that there are too many jobs to be done for the number of people. When we discuss plans like this, we just add up the number of things to be done. So when we think about the resources to be done, we always have to check the perspective of how far we can finish. To put it simply, I think it is good to look at the number of projects that are running. From what I hear, it is 200. I think it depends on the size of the project, but I think it is probably impossible.

Therefore, if we do not have a third party organization check whether the scope is planned to be completed properly, we will be pressured to do this or that, even though we have already achieved good results. I am very concerned about this. The second point is that I would like you to focus on the scope and achieve excellent results, such as Mynaportal.

The third point is individual, but it is No. 6 in Material 1, which is being shown now. The AI Utilization Policy was created four years ago. I think the Cabinet Office and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications also created a human-centered AI utilization policy, but it is my understanding that it has not been used or updated at all. Looking back at why this was the case, this is an important story, so I would like to ask you to proceed.

My understanding is that the members are too domestic, and the cause is too much. I think that Japanese ways of thinking need to be properly organized, but rather than focusing on use cases, including foreign people, and the United States, where it is easy to understand overseas, we are building unique Japanese relationships. For example, we are doing G20 in India-but isn't India clearly a unifying force? We have a very good relationship with Japan, so when we next do it, it would be better to do it from such a strategic perspective. I think it took a great deal of time to create it four years ago, but I think it is quite empty, so I think it would be good to do it based on that.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, . I think this also includes very important elements. Complaints tend to gather, but I think there is also the point that it is quite rare for the administration to be praised in this country. I have the same experience as Mr. Ota in two ways. One is that there is an approach to DX from the outside, and it is highly evaluated. I have experienced this several times. The other is that it is Japan that is proposing the current AI strategy on the international stage from an early stage. I wonder if Japan is doing quite good things from the beginning, and what has become of it now. It may be painful to ask whether it has been developing smoothly since then, but there are parts where the efforts are evaluated from the perspective of foreign countries but not from the perspective of Japan.

Conversely, when I talk about being evaluated by foreign countries, the Japanese press says they don't hear anything like that. I wonder if there is anything to be devised here. In any case, it is an objective evaluation, and in a sense, there may be the people who are not good at praising and the public office who are not good at bragging. Of course, there is no need to lie or stretch yourself, but I think it is better to think strategically about sending messages to correct understanding. I think that is important because it leads to our confidence and courage and a positive attitude of revitalizing industry. Thank you very much.

Wakamiya-san, please.

Wakamiya Member: I'm Wakamiya. Nice to meet you.

First of all, I told you that public office is still in charge of hanko administration. I have one guess. public office is also outsourcing. However, since it is a place where we outsource, a reliable company is probably taking care of it, but it is not always DX-based. If we do so, we will be dealt with by the rules of our outsourcing company, so we will be told that we cannot use My Number Card and that a resident card is fine.

In fact, I received transportation expenses when I visited you on the Digital Day last year. At that time, I couldn't go to My Number Card either. But you said it was okay because you could verify your identity. But that was an individual matter, so many companies are outsourcing, so I would like you to understand that this was the story.

The most important thing is that no one is left behind, but there are many things that I myself did not realize. First of all, I myself am 88 years old, and I was told that I would have to come with my family if I wanted to change my model when I reached my 80s. I thought that if that was not the case, I would go to another company, but it seems that all four companies are the same. There seems to be some internal agreement.

So, in my case, I was persistent and said that I was working in Digital Agency, but that wasn't a reason. The manager made a special arrangement for me, but I later heard that there are many things, such as that it is not allowed to be 65 years old or older when applying online. In addition, I don't think there are many things that I don't notice, or that you don't notice. Therefore, I think it is necessary to conduct a fact-finding survey once.

The opinions of such people are, in short, because they cannot use online, there is one way to do it through a web survey. When I do it overseas, such as in Estonia, I always ask my family to type in online for me. I think it is necessary to check why they are left behind, including such a case.

Another thing that will be very important in Japan in the future is that 10% of the people in Japan are over 80 years old, and quite a few of them are hard of hearing. They are hard of hearing. That will be a factor that will make people's lives very unstable. It is the same in emergency situations, but for example, an accident occurs suddenly at a station, and the only way to tell what the situation is is by voice. So, we who are deaf and hard of hearing are really in trouble. Therefore, I think measures for the deaf and hard of hearing will be necessary for all those who tend to be left behind in the future.

One more thing. Last but not least, I believe that partnerships and cooperative relationships with financial institutions are extremely important. For some reason, Mr. Hendrik, former President of Estonia, said that the main reason his country became an e-government was through partnerships with financial institutions. Financial institutions are now becoming more and more online in the cashless era, and he said that he took advantage of it. Also, when I went to Denmark last year, I heard from Digital Agency in Denmark that he was working closely with financial institutions, and that the Japanese Bankers Association paid half of the cost of upgrading the system in the fall of the year before last. Therefore, I believe that partnerships with financial institutions will become an extremely important factor in the future.

That's all. Thank you very much.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, . I think this was also a valuable opinion.

The first point is about outsourcing. I think the reason why we cannot easily do "X" is that the mechanism of outsourcing is always a brake in the area. For example, I should not say this by name, but in the area of medical care, which you pointed out earlier, it is very comfortable to do highly customized outsourcing, so I think it is an example of an area where "X" does not advance.

I think that if we narrow down the areas where people can live very comfortably with outsourcing, for example, medical care and health are close to such areas, and in some cases, schools are also in such areas, but if we narrow down the areas where we can clearly expect effects, I think that the cause of the considerable suspension due to outsourcing can be eliminated. In that sense, I think that we can do so by checking and advancing the area of semi-public sector, which is what the Digi Agency says.

Another very important point is the issue of accessibility. This is saying that no one will be left behind since the establishment of the Digi-cho. This itself is not just about the fact that PCs and smartphones cannot be used. It must be seen from the perspective of whether accessibility to digital-based services can benefit from it. As Mr. Ota said earlier, what is noticed will be gathered to improve this country. In a sense, we will start with preparing a channel or a system in which 100 million people can say what they notice. Otherwise, I feel that it will not scale when viewed from the supply side. In any case, you pointed out the issue of accessibility itself, but I think it is very important, so I would like you to continue to consider it. Thank you very much.

Thank you for waiting, Mr. Noda.

Member : Thank you very much for your arrangement. I would like to make two points.

The first point is about the indicators that Mr. Ohta talked about earlier. I think it is a very good direction to create indicators from the perspective of the people this time, but I think it is desirable that the way to set indicators is in line with the six images of the society we aim for. As long as we have specified the six images of growth strategies, digitalization in semi-public sector, revitalization of area, a society in which no one is left behind, development of digital human resources, and International Strategy, I think it is good to clarify what the specific goals are for each of them, and show the people in an easy-to-understand manner how far each field has advanced or how little progress has been made while managing the progress. For example, Mr. Mikitani talked about pharmaceuticals at the beginning, but if efforts in the medical care field have not made progress yet, I think it is good to be able to constructively discuss what the reasons are for this and what should be done in the future, and to be able to devise a little more about the way to set indicators that will lead to further action. I think it will be easier for the people to understand how to move toward the society we aim for.

The second point is about the description of "Development of the Digital Industry" in the "digitalization of Industry" in the fourth part of the fifth column added to the table of contents. Beyond the development of the digital industry itself, I think "digital" can be positioned as an enabler to create new industries. It is important to use digital not for the purpose of digital, but to create new growth industries, companies, and startups. I think it is very important to look at how to advance digitalization to create industries.

In particular, I think it is necessary to look at how digital will be used toward the creation of green industries and circular industries and the transformation to a circular economic and social structure. As far as I can see from this table of contents, it seems that the focus is on supporting the digitalization of existing industries, such as creating digital industries, transforming existing businesses, and supporting the digitalization of SMEs. Rather, I think it would be good if Digital Agency could proceed in a way that it can exercise its control tower function to create new industries with digital as an enabler.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Regarding the digitalization of industry, I believe you mentioned two things. One is the transformation of existing industries, and the other is the creation of new industries. Which is the development of the digital industry, and where should it be prioritized? What are your thoughts on this? There are various ways to understand this.

Member : As I said, I believe that the perspective of promoting the creation of new industries using digital is important. Of course, the digitalization of existing industries and the digitalization of government are also important. However, just as there is a goal of a growth strategy at the beginning of the society we aim for, it is essential to create new industries and start-ups in order for Japan to grow in the future. For example, I thought that the enabler positioning of creating new industries using digital, such as green tech and circular tech, is not often depicted here. I hope that the perspective of creating new industries will be added in addition to the development of digital industries.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, I understand.

In other words, from the perspective of other industries, the cultivation of the number one new digital industry tends to be taken as the meaning of further empowering the digital industry that is currently in charge. Therefore, in order to include your current opinions, it may be better to include a slight nuance of enabler in the table of contents.

Secretariat: . In fact, last year, "Development of the Digital Industry" was included in the strategies. However, since it is close to measures, I moved it to Chapter 5. There, it is said that cloud service and IT startups will be used firmly, and companies and industries that will create new and various added values will be created. I would like to understand the purpose of what you said.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, tournament is good, but the nuance of what you said is a little different from the existing digital industry, or the so-called orthodox IT industry, so I thought it would be good if you could include such a meaning a little. Thank you very much.

(Entry of Koshizuka Members)

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Then, Mr. Koshizuka, who was said to be entering the second half, I think you saw it in advance, so may I have your opinion?

Koshizuka Member: Thank you.

Although I am not sure about the status of the discussion because it has come suddenly, what I would like to say in the revision of the strategies I have seen before is that data strategies are extremely important even before Digital Agency can be made, and this time, it is also DFFT within the G7. In that sense, data strategies have been created and implemented in Japan from early on, but at present, there are places where data strategies have not been advanced from the general concept of data strategies, as I have mentioned in my prior review. In that sense, in the future, specific strategies will be formulated for areas that have become strategies. In addition to international matters, in some fields in Japan, data platforms are not far away, and in some fields, such as green and estimation of CO2 emissions, in the supply chain, there will be considerable competition in the near future. Therefore, I would like to see the importance of strategies so that we can steadily advance these areas.

Another thing is that I think it is very important that industry development has been introduced here. Recently, support for ventures and start-ups has been inevitable, and I think that is very important. In particular, if you are working with a data company like me, I think there are some industrial fields that start-ups cannot do anything about. There are parts such as infrastructure and global matters, and it is difficult to develop industries in those parts, but I think it is necessary to consider them at the same time.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Before Mr. Koshizuka came, as Mr. Ohta and others mentioned, there is ChatGPT now, and I think it is a return to natural language AI, but in any case, it is AI, and the handling of digital data is the base. The word AI is included in the data strategy this time, but I think it is rapidly shifting to an AI-sensitive situation in a sense. How do you think the relationship between this and the data strategy should be expressed?

Koshizuka Member: First of all, the origin of generative AI is digital data, so in the digital data strategy, I think it is important to ensure that the way of thinking and governance of data and what ChatGPT and other generative AI are doing now, which is quite evident in personal data, are properly consistent.

However, I personally think that it is desirable to have such an advanced technology, or a form that does not hinder the development of technology as much as possible.

Second, from the perspective of data, we are obtaining various knowledge by eating data. Since generative AI is generative, AI itself will probably generate data in the future. When we generate massive data and content in the future, we will probably be forced to fundamentally change the concept of works and copyrights. Therefore, I believe that data governance and rule-making will have a significant impact on this fundamental.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

I agree with this, and I think it is in this movement that the essential importance of data strategy has become easier to understand. In that sense, I think it would be good if the items of data strategy and AI were a little more concrete and easier to understand and accept. Before Mr. Koshizuka came, Japan had been discussing this matter for quite a while, and about two years ago it should have been quite ahead, but there are many stories about what has happened, and I think it would be good if this could be an opportunity to regain the original pace. Thank you very much.

Koshizuka Member: That's right. So, there is something the Digi-cho wants us to do, but we in private sector are also doing a lot of data-gathering, so we would like to work together to advance this. We would like to work together on various issues.

That's all.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Now, I would like to hear the views of the committee members. If there is anything that I would like to talk about after I have finished with the views, I would like to ask anyone to make a statement. Would that be all right?

In that case, that is all for the discussion on the agenda. Today, you again made very important points, and I would like you to take them seriously and continue to advance the consideration of Priority plan.

So, now that we have finished our discussions with you, I would like to hear your comments on today's discussions, Senior Vice-Minister Chief Officer of the Digital Agency and Foreign Minister Gemba. First of all, Mr. Asanuma, may I ask you a question?

Asanuma Chief Officer of the Digital Agency: Thank you all for taking the time out of your busy schedule to join us today.

Based on the opinions I received today, I would like to review and brush up on Priority plan. I believe that you are deepening the contents you have been receiving for a long time, so while proceeding based on the contents I received today, I also received new ideas and opinions from Mr. Joi Ito, so I personally thought that this is one point that the project can consider along with Priority plan.

We will continue to receive opinions from all of you, and Digital Agency is advancing the project with your support. I am very strong in this regard, so I would like to receive praise from the staff, and although it is said that there are 100 or 200 projects, even if it is a little difficult for the executives, I would like to firmly advance the project and firmly support the progress of digitalization as a whole. I look forward to your continued support.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you.

Then, Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Okushi, may I have your comments?

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Okushi: Thank you, , for your active discussions today.

It was pointed out that there are so many, and there was talk about the degree of satisfaction with the indicators from the perspective of the people. I would like to make use of such a perspective while thinking that such a thing could be a little more interactive. In addition, we are currently promoting the use of private sector in My Number Card, so I would like to make inroads into new fields while enhancing convenience.

I would like to continue to expand my possibilities in various ways, so I would like to ask for your guidance and opinions. Thank you very much for today.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

So, Minister Kono, what do you think?

Minister for Digital Transformation Kohno: Thank you, Thank you.

There are 3,500 people in Digital Agency, which has a population of 5.5 million, while there are 800 people in Digital Agency, which has a population of 120 million. This year, we are trying to increase the number to 1,000 people. However, for people from private sector, there is a salary issue, so the limit is to ask them to work in Digital Agency two to three days a week. We need to decide what to do with the resources in Digital Agency, and what to do according to the resources. Otherwise, we cannot do what we cannot do. Therefore, I think we must carefully consider following the resources in our strategies.

However, under the leadership of Chief Officer of the Digital Agency, we are starting to manufacture various things in-house. If we manufacture them in-house, we can control the schedule and respond quickly if something happens. So, we cannot make all of them in-house, but I think we must consider manufacturing important things in-house in Digital Agency.

If you listen to ChatGPT well, they will write code and produce something of their own, so I think we need to think about how much AI can be used.

When I talk with various ministries and agencies, there are many cases in which the law is revised in the first year, the budget is collected in the second year, and the development is made in the third year, so it will be three years later. I believe that we must do something about this, so I would like to think about how we can do it with a sense of speed.
We look forward to your continued guidance and encouragement. Thank you so much for today.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, .

In the past, there was a song called "One Week," and I remembered that it was like making a bath on Mondays and taking a bath on Tuesdays, but the Minister said that such a pace was not enough.

Now, after listening to what the Senior Vice-Minister, Minister, and Inspector have just said, is there anyone who has left something to be said and would like to say this? Are you all right?

Thank you.

Then, please tell me the communication from the office.

Secretariat: Thank you very much.

As you discussed publicly today, the meeting materials will also be made public on the Digital Agency website in the future. In addition, we would like to make the minutes public as soon as possible after confirming them with the members.

That's all for the message.

Chairman Murai: Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Then, I would like to conclude today's meeting by asking for your continued cooperation in the process at the Digi-Agency in Priority plan.

With this, I would like to close the seventh "digital society Concept Conference." Thank you very much for your enthusiastic discussion despite your busy schedule.