Web3.0 Study Meeting (12th)
Overview
- Date and time: December 23, 2022 (Friday) from 10:00 to 12:00
- Location: Online
- Agenda:
- Opening
- Proceedings
- Secretariat Explanation
- Exchange of opinions
- Adjournment
Materials
Secretariat explanatory materials * Limited to members
Minutes
Date
December 23, 2022 (Friday) from 10:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.
Location
Online Meetings
Attendees
Members
Jiro Kokuryo (Professor, Faculty of Policy Studies, Keio University)
Masahiko INAMI (Special Assistant to the President of the University of Tokyo, Professor of Physical Informatics, Center for Advanced Science and Technology
ISHII Natsu Shori (Professor, Faculty of International Information Studies, Chuo University)
Yuko Kawai (CEO of Japan Digital Design Co., Ltd.; Executive Director of the Strategic Planning Department of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, Inc.; Executive Director of the Strategic Planning Department of MUFG Bank, Ltd.)
Keiji Tonomura (Attorney, Nagashima, Ohno & Tsunematsu Law Office)
Kazuhiko Toyama (Chairman of IPPI Group Co., Ltd.)
Taiyo Fujii
Shinichiro Matsuo, Research Professor, Georgetown University
Noriyuki Yanagawa (Professor, Graduate School of Economics, The University of
Digital Agency (Secretariat)
- Minister Kono, Senior Vice-Minister Okushi, Parliamentary Vice-Minister Ozaki, Director General Kusunoki, Councilor Nozaki
Minutes
The Secretariat explained the draft report of the Web3.0 Study Group.
In the question-and-answer session and opinion exchange, the members mainly made the following remarks.
Member: The big dispute over cryptocurrencies in the U.S. could be a criminal case. It has even become a chapter eleven. In the U.S., the supervisory authority for cryptocurrencies has not been decided, and in short, the incident occurred while the relevant authorities were pushing each other to discuss whether cryptocurrencies are securities or not. If such a number of incidents occur, various clever mechanisms may be created in terms of case law. That is exactly the OODA loop. It is typical of the U.S., but such a violent incident is the best clinical example, and what can be learned from it is effective.
Member: It is a chance to learn from such incidents and events as a stone of another mountain, feed back cases well, and learn with zero damage to the parties. The style of using OODA loop, the latest situation, and actualized risks as learning materials is good in countries with case law, but Japanese countries are not countries with case law. It may be desirable to absorb stories like this in a DAO-like mechanism that will be worked on in the future, and create implications or soft law guidelines. I think that this study group will be a legal research theme that will develop in the future, and I will say it as an idea.
If possible, I would like to include a message that there is no one size-fits-all solution like the so-called "silver bullet" in Web3.0 or anything else, and that there are pros and cons and the right person in the right place in Web3.0. Algorithms and mathematics such as Web3.0 and blockchain are global, but they may or may not work depending on the circumstances of each country. First of all, I would like you to write at the beginning that Web3.0 is not a "silver bullet". In addition, therefore, we should continue to discuss among multi-stakeholders where it will work effectively in Japan's pain points. If we do not have it, we will be able to solve the problem only with Web3.0, and we will be able to apply it anywhere. Therefore, I would like you to state that we will continue to widely discuss based on the right person in the right place and where it is effective.Member: law enforcement. It is desirable that the content of the crime in the document include specific words in the form of security incidents such as fraud, theft, and hacking. I would like to ask you to include in the text that there are cases in which Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes, which are the most common problems in the business of various crypto-assets such as NFTs, are for the sole purpose of gaining first mover advantage.
Member: In addition to the fact that Web3.0 itself is not a "silver bullet" because it is suitable and unsuitable in the first place, we have also discussed the time frame of what may be realized immediately, what is in the near future, and what is in the distant view. There is also a gradation in when it can be realized before and after in the time frame. I would like you to include an expression that is aware of the time frame, such as what should be done immediately and what should be done in the future, at the beginning.
Member: Consumer protection is a developing scheme, and there is a possibility that the technology will change in the future. Consumers need to understand that it is not easy but difficult, and since it is difficult, only those who understand it well should work on it. I think it would be good if the message was included.
In the part of the "Conclusion" that provides information and raises awareness about the prevention of user damage, we have included a message that there is a possibility that there will be an increase in complaints and trouble cases about Web3.0 in the future, and that we will raise awareness after analyzing them. Based on the purpose, I would like to think about whether we can add the importance of raising awareness.Member: It may be necessary to devise ways to make important points stand out. It is desirable to send a signal about the danger, especially in the short term, that it is dangerous to proceed without the understanding of consumers, although this part is a world of self-responsibility.
I would like to make comments and proposals one by one. First, there is a world view currently called Web3.0, but I once again felt that there is a distance between the world view and what is technologically possible that can be seen as an extension of current technology with Web3.0. For example, the story of everyone freely participating in and freely combining with open innovation is wonderful as a world view, but it will not be realized immediately with blockchain technology. Therefore, to realize the world view, economically speaking, the market structure must be changed entirely, and the laws that support it must be changed. However, the framework itself of how to realize that world view with technology plus alpha does not exist anywhere in the world yet. I do not think all of it can be done by this study group, but I once again felt that it is a difficult Issue. Although it does not need to be edited, it is a big Issue that needs to be delved into a little more. Second, I would like to make comments as a proposal. The description of Issue in the institutional and regulation aspect for the future seems to be something that must be considered in the slightly distant future, and should be dealt with in consideration of the distant future. However, what kind of legal system and what kind of rules will be adopted in the newly moving world of Web3.0 is a Issue that will begin rapidly around the world. If we do not deal with it now, we will be left behind in rule formation, and we may start running with Japanese characteristics while we do not know what the rules are like. Part (4) is an urgent Issue, and this is the message that must be conveyed most in this report. The content is fine, but I would like to emphasize that this is not the Issue of the future, but the Issue of the urgent.- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the Secretariat, for example, expressed the shortest frame of innovation support measures in (5) in the part of "immediately," putting two distant things, the future image and the ideal image, and stating the rest in the middle. However, three pillars are written as Issue in terms of systems and regulation, and the future image and Issue are also visible to some extent, so I would like to send a message that efforts should be started immediately.
Member: I think it would be good if you could show three things in a tabular form: what you need to do immediately, what you need to do carefully, and what you need to think while running.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the are good or not. First of all, I will sort out what needs to be done. It will be a OODA loop, but it is possible that Issue, which is subordinate, will change into Issue, which needs to be done immediately, and I think that the time frame will fluctuate as various things occur, including incidents in the U.S. At this point, I think it is important to sort out what needs to be done immediately.
Member: Regarding the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order when new blockchains and decentralization spread around the world, it is new that not only existing politicians, officials, and business sides, but also engineers will be involved in it. When it comes to the creation of order
Member: In accordance with technological evolution and change, new thieves and villains will appear one after another. In the midst of the competition, rules will be formed as a result. Countries with overwhelming and ambitious engineers, those who plan to commit crimes, and those who want to make money will have an advantage in terms of rule formation because various incidents and accidents will occur one after another. Since there are many of both, they have many legislative facts, so it will be mostly rule formation in the United States.
Member: Japan is the country that is the most opposed to it. Even if you are looking for legislative facts and having various discussions, there is a high possibility that it will become a Galapagos, so you have to synchronize with a country with many lawless people. The U.S. has the highest tolerance for social lawless people to become violent. Therefore, cooperation is important, and Europeans make rules that are advantageous to their countries while watching the situation from the side. It is a pattern in which the U.S. with many lawless people and Europeans with many cunning people always take the lead. Isn't it an urgent Issue that Japan joins the U.S. and Europe and creates a mechanism to participate in the formation of rules while constantly updating information?
Member: This study group will end within this year, but it is planned to continue with the DAO after that. Isn't it being questioned whether the contents described on page 11 are OK? This DAO itself may need to be involved in the global mode in the context described above. The point is whether the activity is opened globally so that this DAO itself does not become a Galapagos.
Member: BGIN, it may be possible to support the global development of the DAO. It is stated that the administrator of Digital Agency, members, and related ministries and agencies are DAO participants. However, it is not only the administrator and members that I would like to see such a thing seriously considered. Since it is written all together with stakeholders, it may be good to make it a rich expression that there are various people.
Member: Since the United States is a country of case law, it is recognized that lawyers come out and form rules every time a case occurs. Is it correct to think that there are already a certain number of people involved in Congress and trials as rule-makers and law-makers in the United States?
Member: Large, small and medium-sized blockchain companies in the U.S. basically pay tens of millions of yen to people who have worked for government agencies or international organizations as government relations and lobbyists. In Washington DC, the community is more than 100 people, and every month at the research center I run, they hold a closed breakfast meeting called PGP for Crypto (Pretty Good Policy for Crypto) to socialize and exchange information for more than six months.
Member: Is it the recognition that there must be a counterpart on the Japanese side?
Member: As you know, there are Japanese visitors, and they are part of the community, but I think it is important to increase such relationships in the future as an example.
Member: As a flow before the start of this study group, this activity itself originally started from discussions among politicians called the Liberal Democratic Party. Since politicians are also people who represent the opinions of the people in so-called democratic countries, isn't it necessary for politicians to be included in this DAO and for them to be able to communicate with domestic or global public discussions? In other words, shouldn't politicians be included in this stakeholder?
Member: Since Japan has not had much experience of holding open discussions, there is a certain significance in doing so.
Member: One possibility is to switch the order of (4) and (5). First, in (3), it is written that the future image should be aimed at, and in the last paragraph, it is written that it is important to immediately support engineers and creators. For example, next, in (5), "innovation promotion measures" are written in the sense of measures to be immediately taken and driven in order to advance to the future to be aimed at. On the other hand, there is a tendency to write (4) in the sense that institutional improvement is also necessary at the same time. Another point is that I participate in the LDP's Web3.0 PT and discuss it. The LDP lawmakers who are in charge of Web3.0 have an open mind and actively exchange opinions with various experts and market people. Therefore, it is a good effort to collect the opinions of various people in an open forum. Until now, there have been few opportunities for Japanese lawyers to discuss policy formulation with politicians from a very soft stage in such a way, and they have often commented when the groundwork has been made a little more, but in the future, we should actively work on such places.
Member: officials write laws seriously, they become hard laws every time. American legislation issues sloppy laws, and if there is a dispute, it is often settled in the court. In Japanese cases, Diet members can create laws without Cabinet Legislation Bureau examination, but as a current Japanese practice, is there still a mechanism in which excellent lawyers support politicians and enact Diet members' laws?
Member: There is a movement to create a DAO law through Diet legislation. It can be said that such an initiative is taking place.
Member: OODA loop, when the PDCA of regulation itself is circulated, the procedure is difficult and time-consuming if it is carried out by each law, and all the opinions of stakeholders must be heard, and opposition opinions from people with vested rights will emerge, making it a iridescent and rigid law. We recognize that we have repeated a pattern in the past in which we cannot move once we have made it.
Member: If a mechanism for Web3.0 legislation centered on young people were to be created in Japan, I feel that the previous discussion would mesh. For example, the United States is creating laws under a similar mechanism, but is it difficult for Japan?
Member: DAO Law could be in the form of a special law. It would be desirable if it could be one case that accumulates.
Member: (5), ④ mentions the development of leaders of the Research development and Technology Division development, but in the end, it is the same as what is said in ③, and it seems to stop at the talk of catching up in the global community. On the other hand, in order to pass our opinions in the global community, we cannot participate in the discussion unless we can present advanced technologies that Japan can transmit. I would like to add that we will support the Research development and Technology development related to Web3.0 by developing leaders. From the viewpoint of innovation, Web3.0 probably has a cultural aspect, not a technical aspect. In particular, I would like to add the point where the metaverse is involved.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the may be better in reverse order. Considering the joining with (3), the current order is better, and considering the joining with (6), the reverse order is better and more problematic. I would like to review the whole again and consider what to do finally.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the We are thinking from the perspective of a research development and a technology development, and how to include cultural aspects is an important perspective. I would like to consider whether we can devise it in terms of wording.
Member: engineers in the future. There are various descriptions of what the relevant government agencies should do, but behind the scenes, which government agency is in charge, and is there an image created within the Digital Agency Secretariat?
Member: The Liberal Democratic Party has been making proposals for the NFT White Paper, and all of the proposals are linked to ministries and agencies to clarify who is in charge. Is there such a link behind the scenes?
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the , and the other is the part in which the relevant ministries and agencies are consulted on the basis of this report and which ministries and agencies will be responsible for Issue. As a wide range of ministries and agencies are involved in the development of engineers, we would like to decide which ministries and agencies will take the initiative in this area in the future.
Member: If various ministries and agencies are involved, it will be a collective irresponsible system and no one will do anything. It is not a matter of creating many average engineers, but it is a game of quality and quantity of top tier engineers. The only successful project in the past was an unexplored project conducted by the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry. It worked because it was clearly focused on top of the top and aiming for the Olympics. At the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, all students are targeted, and the Japanese education system is the same in terms of deviation value 75 and 45, and the guidelines for establishing universities are the same, so it is probably impossible.
Member: If you don't have a strategic will, empirically speaking, this story will definitely not work. In short, because everything is involved, everyone is almost synonymous with doing nothing if you tell Kasumigaseki, so at least if Digital Agency's framework is not so, you will not work unless you have a strategically clear will and think about who will hold the ball. Kasumigaseki It is necessary to have internal strategic nature.
Member: What is needed is not the average world of tens of thousands of people, but people at the top. There are about four types of human resources who support the world of Web3.0. The first is a designer of technology who is also a researcher of cryptographic technology, game theory, or distributed computing. The second is an engineer who performs stable and safe implementation, including secure implementation. The third is a person who operates it, an operator like those in communication carriers who can withstand attacks at the national level in a world where there are attacks from bad countries every day. The fourth is a person who can engage in government relations, including when problems occur, including lobbyists. These four types of top human resources are necessary. It is necessary to draw up a strategy for how to nurture these four types.
Member: Based on that, how can we train engineers who can safely implementation in unexplored businesses, including Web3.0 and cryptography? We are talking to those involved in unexplored businesses about sending excellent people overseas, and this should be included. In terms of researchers who create theories, the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology is about to start a program to send new top human resources overseas on a long-term basis. It is necessary to create a system that can cooperate with famous teachers overseas while utilizing such things. It is necessary to continue to assign four types of human resources and what to assign within the existing framework or the new framework depending on each.
Member: The engineers needed are those in the top tier who have the technology necessary to respond in the world, but what we need to leave behind when the first wave of the Web3.0 movement ends is thousands of ordinary engineers who can easily create DAOs. For example, an acquaintance of mine recently launched a DAO to save FTX. His engineers are not in the top tier, but they have quickly launched a DAO, raised $ 200 million, and moved to save it. We should aim for a state where there are many ordinary engineers. I hope that many people who can write Crypto will remain.
Member: I am a person who is studying implementation of cryptography and cryptographic protocols, and implementation security including OpenSSL. Even the protocol called TLS, which has authentication and encryption functions and is used by everyone, such as online banking, sometimes has implementation bugs. It is necessary to create a state in which people in the top tier can design and implement TLS safely, and there is a slight difference in knowledge between those who actually implement it and those who actually implement it, and bugs sometimes get into it. For example, it is necessary to create a state in which people who can implementation TLS safely are around, but on the other hand, it is necessary to solve this problem based on the fact that even TLS, which is a protocol simpler than blockchain, has such a state. At the same time that there are people who can create research development in the top tier or create new protocols, it is necessary to create programs that fill the amount of technology and knowledge of top people and ordinary engineers not only in Japan but also globally. Including such things, the Web3.0 era is a scary and fun era in which everyone can write cryptographic programs, and for that purpose, it is necessary to have a perspective on what kind of engineers are necessary.
Member: Regarding the Kasumigaseki Strategic Theory, the Japanese human resources development policy of the past would be a mixture of the two layers just mentioned. Considering the layers separately is said to be the solidification of inequality in the world of education. Both are undoubtedly important, but if they are left alone, the policy system will become a confusing system.
Member: The reason why the unexplored project was great was that it showed that the layers were clearly different and implemented the policy. It is still a taboo in the Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology (MEXT). I agree with you that both are important without any objection, but if anything, the Japanese policy is socialist in mentality and the unexplored type is not good at it. Therefore, while standing on the premise that you should do what you are told to do, soccer will not be exciting unless you win the World Cup. The key is to do it in two layers, a human resource development package for the purpose of winning the World Cup, and a J-League 100-year plan to increase the number of soccer fans and players.
Member: After clarifying what kind of people they want to grow and how they want to grow them, if they do not clearly throw them to each public office, no one will do anything. In many cases, the story that was relatively clear in Nagata-cho becomes ambiguous due to the logic of Kasumigaseki. Digital Agency is a public office with a concept of realizing policies through a kind of top-down politics led by a different angle from the conventional approach. The Kasumigaseki here are people who are well aware of the surrounding circumstances and the ideal way of Kasumigaseki, and it is desirable to set a strategic theme based on the circumstances.
Member: , is it possible to specify something in the report after discussing the situation where there is no clear underwriter in public office by the time this report is issued?
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the Human Resources Development is under the jurisdiction of METI and Digital Agency, I would like to consider it in consultation with METI.
Member: Shouldn't the four types of human resources for which the requirements for human resources were clearly defined at today's meeting and the five types of base human resources be described? By clarifying different profiles for each, it will be a conversation about who will receive the clear one. If we vaguely say human resources development, it will be a vague discussion, so it is desirable to increase the resolution. The story of human resources development will be blurred at the end every time. It will be a vague story about increasing programmers, so it should be made use of a clear definition of human resources type.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the human resource development is to send engineers to BGIN and others to train them, and it is described with the aim of nurturing pioneers who can take charge of cutting-edge things such as unexplored businesses. On the other hand, it seems to be important to have a layer to expand the base where you can move your hands. We will examine the Shumon in a way that both viewpoints can be understood.
Member: People will not grow unless we concentrate on tackling them, and human resource development will not achieve implementation unless we raise the definition, so it is better to raise the definition of human resource development.
Member: It is not an advertisement of an unexplored project, but young engineers, such as high school students who are usually undergraduates and perform secret calculation using homomorphic encryption and Web3.0 projects, have begun to appear, and are beginning to be active in the world. It is not limited to an unexplored project, but as such a system, the government should make efforts to train top-tier engineers who can participate in the World Cup.
Member: education, we will of course expand our base, but I would like you to emphasize the discovery and development of top tier human resources.
Member: I am concerned about the timeframe, and it is desirable that it be embodied. In the table of contents, it is written as the basic guidelines for the sound development of Web3.0, but when I look at the content, the guidelines are vague. Please consider whether the expression "guidelines" is preferable or not, and adjust it. Regarding the discussion on the possibility of the metaverse, it is written as "The world in which people act with multiple personalities as avatars will expand in the metaverse. It will be possible to collect segmented action histories, and it can be expected to be used as a marketing tool for companies." This area may be an area where people who are active in the fields of privacy and personal data protection have an antenna. I participated in a conference on external transmission technology using cookies at a conference in another ministry, but when I announced that it would be used as a marketing tool, I feel that the tone is different even in the same government report, and it may be desirable to have an expression that takes privacy into consideration. Regarding the joining of the metaverse, there is a concern that major platformers will take control of the metaverse at a time when many births and deaths are occurring. In addition, I do not know whether the joining with the direction is suitable as a way of thinking, such as the distributed way of thinking and policy of the Web3.0 goal, or whether it is facing the same direction. I would like to study while participating in the discussion in the future. The discussion of hard law or soft law has appeared in previous study groups. Looking at the report, it is likely that hard law will live in cross-border law enforcement, but I would like to confirm whether it is acceptable to understand that the policy of hard law and soft law will live in what kind of domain for the time being.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the For any indication that the content of the Basic Guidelines after each chapter does not match the title, the wording will be re-examined.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the platformers, it seems to be in the middle of evolution in the competition between Web2.0 and Web3.0. We will consider it while watching future moves.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the soft law and hard law, I have written a message that we will respond flexibly by making use of the characteristics of each, but my understanding is that there is nothing more than that.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the when collecting personal data action history. I will take the expression you pointed out.
Member: It is becoming possible to connect top tier engineers with domestic corporate entities and industries. However, measures to enable top tier engineers to enter global communities are missing, so please add them. It is desirable to have support measures to enable top tier engineers to enter overseas communities.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the I recognize that the perspective you pointed out is important because the draft of the current report is written to aim at that.
Member: Is it a matter of money or posts? What kind of support is necessary for people in the top tier to go overseas?
Member: It is a system that includes money and the enhancement of the acceptance system of the other party.
Member: Business School, a sheet was prepared because it was donated by a company. Is it correct to understand that there are not many sheets in any field now?
Member: In particular, it is recognized that the technology is not sufficient.
Member: .
Member: The unexplored business has continued for many years, and there are many successful cases. There are many people who have retired from the unexplored business and are working in GAFA. Those people are active globally, but I have discussed that it is desirable to have the next step of the unexplored business, such as creating an unexplored program to be active globally while maintaining a strong relationship with Japan. Isn't it a good timing to be added in the unexplored program in the Web3.0 era?
Member: is also aware of the same problem, and JST has started to create a human resource development program that can build a network overseas not for one or two years, but for a long time. If such a program can be launched within the framework, it will be a strong national policy.
Member: soccer story, but people who are active in European club teams will be active in the World Cup. It is important to place players in the place where there is the most accumulation in the world, and there were some similar nuances about this startup, but I would like you to clarify who will be in charge and assign Digital Agency.
Member: I would like the Secretariat to consider, adjust, and respond to the points that can be reflected in the report with the opinions I received today. After that, if you don't mind, I would like to leave the additional amendments based on today's opinions to you. I have obtained the approval of Member Ito, who was absent today, in advance, but do you have any objection?
(SAYS NO OBJECTION)- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the Committee, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you for your very energetic discussions to this day. Using this report as a guide, I would like to continue to work with relevant ministries and agencies for the sound development of Web3.0, and I would like to take action where Digital Agency should take action. I would also like to thank you for your efforts, including the DAO. I would be very grateful if you could continue to provide me with knowledge in various forms, and I would like to ask for your cooperation in various aspects in the future.
- Speaker: I believe that everyone has answered that the Study Group DAO will be continued. We have actually invited everyone on Discord, but in order to move the activity further, momentum will not increase only with the current members because everyone is busy. As a way of proceeding, we would appreciate if you could agree to invite people who are likely to move their hands from the members and proceed in a way that is one step wider. Please access DAO, register your wallet, and let us make an opinion on the current proposal and finally decide by voting. Please give us your opinion on the direction.
Member: I feel that we have no choice but to shape this matter while running, so I would like to proceed while consulting with everyone, but do you have any opinions at this point?
Member: Since various things will probably happen, I would like to ask for your cooperation in order to be one of the cores of responses to various things that have happened and positive efforts.
The secretariat explained that the minutes of the meeting will be published after the members confirm the content.
End