The 5th Study Meeting on the Promotion of the Use of Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Well-Being Indicators for the Realization of area
Overview
- Date and time: March 25, 2024 (Monday) from 14:00 to 16:00
- Location: Online
- Agenda:
- Opening
- Proceedings
- Status of efforts for local governments Well-Being Indicators in area
- Kakogawa City, Hyogo
- Utilization and Analysis of area Well-Being Indicators
1-1. area Well-Being Indicators OASIS Training 1 Day Training, Caravans, etc.
1-2. area Well-Being Indicators Correlation Analysis of Subjective and Objective Indicators
2-1. Promotion of Use of local governments Well-Being Indicators in area - About the Reference Logic Tree
- Status of efforts for local governments Well-Being Indicators in area
- Exchange of opinions
Materials
- Handout 1 Agenda (PDF/279KB)
- Material 2 Kakogawa City, Hyogo Kakogawa City's Efforts to Improve Well-Being (PDF / 1,043 kb)
- Document 3-1: Nagumo Member Document: area Well-Being Indicator _ OASIS et al. Training Implementation Status (PDF / 4,304 kb)
- Document 3-2: Nagumo Member Document area Well-Being Indicator _ Correlation Analysis of Subjective and Objective Indicators (PDF / 4,465 kb)
- Document 4: Digital Agency Materials: Promotion of the Use of local governments Well-Being Indicators in area (PDF / 2,713 kb)
- Appendix 5: Draft Digital Agency Document Reference Logic Tree (PDF / 2,011 kb)
- Minutes (PDF/1,427 kb)
References
Minutes
Moderator (Nagura): Now that it's on time, we will hold the 5th Review Meeting on Promoting the Use of Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation Happiness Indicators for the Realization of area. Thank you very much.
Today, members of the selected organizations are also in attendance, but members of the selected organizations other than the presenters are only in attendance, so please be careful not to hear any sound. Members of the local government of the presenting organization are requested to turn off their cameras and microphones.
Well, I will start now, but Mr. Murakami, the Director-General, is not at his desk right now, so I will skip the greetings. First of all, I would like to ask Mr. Maeno of Keio University, the Chairman, to proceed with the proceedings. Mr. Maeno, nice to meet you.
Chairman Maeno: Hello, I'm Maeno from Keio University. Thank you for your introduction.
Today, there will be an announcement from the regional local government and an announcement on the indicators. Thank you. The time is until four o'clock in the afternoon.
Then, could Mr. Kakogawa City of local governments make a presentation on the title of "Status of Efforts on area Well-Being Indicators in Hyogo?"
Kakogawa City: Okay, I'd like to share the materials with you. Please wait a moment.
(p. 1) Then, I would like to introduce and explain the efforts aimed at improving well-being in Kakogawa City by Mr. Fujita of the Kakogawa City Policy Planning Division. Thank you very much.
(p. 2) In December 2022, I introduced the efforts made at that time. Today, I would like to explain the efforts made since then and the efforts to be made in the future.
(p. 3) This slide is a brief introduction to this city, so we would appreciate if you could take a look at it later.
(p. 4) Yes, this is the cover and photo of Kakogawa City's Comprehensive Plan. In the first place, the reason why we in Kakogawa City have been working on the introduction of the LWC indicator is that Kakogawa City's Comprehensive Plan from fiscal 2021 to fiscal 2008 states that the image of the future city is "a city where people can feel happiness." Therefore, when working to improve the sense of happiness of citizens, how to measure the degree of achievement of qualitative happiness has become the Issue.
(p. 5) There are various elements that constitute happiness, and I heard about the LWC index, which can measure how much the elements that the public can be involved in affect happiness, and I felt the need for it as a method for community development and policy development that this city aims for, and I decided to introduce it.
(p. 6) From here on, efforts will be made to improve Well-Being, but first of all, it is necessary to promote understanding and common recognition of the entire city and public office.
Therefore, in February 2023, with the cooperation of Mr. Nagumo, we held a training session with basic contents for about 80 senior officials, including the mayor and the deputy mayor, as well as the deputy directors of departments and the directors of sections. This was conducted based on the idea that it is necessary for management to deepen their understanding first. I believe that the holding of this training session provided an opportunity to once again share the City's stance, and I feel that we were able to proceed with the subsequent efforts by gaining understanding relatively smoothly.
(p. 7) Second, as a step to connect the results of the area Happiness Survey to policy planning, we have just conducted the OASIS training, which the smart cities Institute has been developing since this fiscal year, in order to learn more practical methods.
As shown in the next slide, we designated a manager who has the right to make decisions on policy planning from the department in charge of the policies and fields that are considered to be closely related to happiness, etc.
In the training, based on the open data published by the smart cities Institute, I feel that I was able to deepen and learn from various stages of considering policy planning through group discussions.
(p. 8) As for the third initiative, in fiscal 2022, we conducted a survey by adding the item of area happiness to the public awareness survey conducted every year. Then, in order to confirm the fields deeply related to happiness, we tried to perform a correlation analysis between the satisfaction level and the happiness level of each measure measured by the public awareness survey. As a result, we were able to classify the fields related to happiness and the fields related to life satisfaction as shown in the slide. The selection of students for the OASIS training on the previous slide was based on this result.
(p. 9) In addition, from the analytical tool of the smart cities Institute, which was upgraded in fiscal 2023, we confirmed the fields that are correlated with the sense of well-being of citizens. This result is stated by the mayor in the Administrative Policy for fiscal 2024. An excerpt of the Administrative Policy is shown in the slide.
To give an example of this, in this city, while we were trying to strengthen our efforts by promoting the city of music, it is difficult to see the effects in this field. Therefore, the fact that we were able to confirm the correlation between culture and art and a sense of happiness supported our efforts.
In the interpellation session by the representatives of the parliamentary groups in March, efforts to improve Well-Being were discussed, and attention has been paid to this issue externally.
(p. 10) The last slide is about our future efforts.
First of all, we are planning to hold the second OASIS training in fiscal 2024. The first training this year was for section chiefs who have the right to make decisions, but we are now thinking of holding the second training for section chiefs who are responsible for policy planning.
We believe that it is important to balance discussions at various stages in policy formulation at a high level by increasing the number of trainees, and we would like to advance such efforts.
Next, in this city, we have been conducting a public awareness survey every fiscal year since fiscal 2016, the first year of the previous comprehensive plan. For the two years of fiscal 2022 and fiscal 2005, we have been conducting a survey by adding Well-Being-related questions to the conventional public awareness survey.
However, we are thinking of conducting the surveys separately in fiscal 2024. This is because we want to obtain more detailed survey results by conducting each survey individually, and we want to clarify the purpose of each survey. We would like to utilize the results of each survey, positioning the Citizen Awareness Survey as progress management of the Comprehensive Plan for comprehensive community development and the area Happiness Survey as planning measures that focus on each citizen. In response to the clarification of the purpose, we would like to conduct the area Happiness Survey around summer and build a mechanism that can reflect the results of the survey in the next fiscal year's budget.
Finally, on the slide, we state that we will "build a mechanism utilizing the results of the survey and analysis." Our management mechanism for policy planning is the Policy Development Plan, and I believe the Issue is how to integrate the OASIS training process into it. For example, we will consider methods that can efficiently produce effects, such as intensively utilizing the OASIS training process only for planning projects that should be involved in the large Issue that each policy has. Before building such a mechanism, we will first aim to balance the discussions in the current Policy Development Plan at a high level.
I spoke a little too fast, but I would like to finish my explanation of Kakogawa City's efforts.
Thank you very much.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much for your attention, and thank you very much for your presentation.
Yes, do you have any questions?
There will be a lot of content after this, so if you don't mind, let's take questions later and move on.
Next is "area Well-Being Indicator OASIS Training 1 Day Training, Caravan, etc." Next time, is this Nagumo san and Inoue san?
Moderator (Nagura): (1) will be Dr. Nagumo.
Chairman Maeno: , first of all, Mr. Nagumo, nice to meet you.
Member Nagumo: Yes, I understand. I would like to start now.
(Reference 3-1, p. 2) First, I would like to talk about training-related matters. On the last page of the recommendations made at the previous Study Group, in order to enhance policy-making capacity, I would like to make a recommendation that the key will be training, the creation of questionnaire items and KPIs unique to each local government, so-called second layer, which are unique to each area, and more active participation by private sector. I would like to talk about what has been happening since then.
(p. 3) If you look at this figure, I think you can think of it as a three axis cube. (1) The development of local leaders, as Kakogawa City has just announced, is at the height. (2) The horizontal expansion of local leaders, with the participation of various people. (3) Fukami, I would say depth, is to be able to properly capture local characteristics. In order to grow both quality and quantity, various efforts have been made.
(p. 4) OASIS Training actually started in May last year. As of today, 100 people have completed the OASIS Training. The participants are companies in local government and private sector. It is currently underway, and just like Kakogawa City, it will be held for the second time. If I did it alone, I think more than 200 people would graduate by December this year. And OASIS graduates have already reached the point where they can become teachers. Regardless of how many people will actually be taught, if the number of teachers increases, the curve will rise further, and I think the number will reach 300 or 400, not 200. In any case, the training will take six months, so it will be a step-by-step process.
(p. 5) I would like to convey an image of what will be finally announced to the mayor. In the case of Higashi-Hiroshima City, which has just finished, it is like this. I have about four pages out of 20. After being decomposed by the logic tree, a logic model required by the Cabinet Office will be written. Although it does not appear in this, I am measuring how much impact it will have. This is an example of a full-time housewife who has moved to local government. There were surprisingly few places where women could play an active role. In the form of a policy proposal by Hiroshima to make more efforts, what is interesting is that when you look at the questionnaire form on the lower right, there is a question such as "Do you think your mother (wife) is happy?" In the KPI, there are "the percentage of children who think their mother is happy" and "the percentage of husbands who think their wife is happy." It was a very successful proposal that emphasized what wives can do to realize themselves.
(p. 6) Next is Kamakura city, which is also hit by the heat of women raising children. The activity of the logic model shows that we should take various measures to create time. In order to change the way we use money, people who have been deeply supported by the generation raising children will return to the next generation in the form of gratitude, and will contribute to the area in various ways even when they get older. This is shown in the Maslow diagram, and it goes to the top, self-transcendence, and comes back again. If Mr. Uchida were to come, I would have wanted you to see it today, but there is an idea that he himself put into words a model in which happiness circulates.
(p. 7) In addition, we are doing various one day training, which is called 1 Day Seminar, and it was hosted by Mr. Digital Agency and I was also allowed to do it together. It was held in Hamamatsu, Yokohama, Aizuwakamatsu, and Kobe, Hyogo. It was concluded that 97% of the participants were very useful, so I think it had a great impact as an introduction.
(p. 8) Next, there is something called a caravan, although it is a little similar. The 1 DAY I mentioned earlier was a type of training in which people from various cities gathered in one place, but a caravan is a full-day training specialized in local government in which citizens and companies of a local government gather in one area. It was held in Odawara, Maebashi, Beppu, and Higashihiroshima, and it was a training that was useful for creating a sense of depression. It was very exciting, not only in terms of public policy, but also from the perspective of how to create a business.
(p. 9) In addition, there are various 1-day programs. I am only showing a representative program, the Asia-Yokohama Conference, which is the smart cities Conference hosted by smart cities City, and focusing on the low level of happiness among young people, I held a discussion with doctors from the Faculty of Medicine at Yokohama City University and Benesse to raise the level of happiness.
And Decker Ige, this is a discussion for administrative staff, relatively on the digital government side, but here, OASIS graduates volunteered to do a workshop autonomously.
With regard to the Japan Gas Association, I spoke with the Governor of Toyama Prefecture as a forum for considering how the gas industry can coexist with area amid the declining population. The theme of my talk was area's Well-Being.
Finally, as the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology, we will consider what should be done from the perspective of Well-Being to revitalize the community of the housing complex.
(p. 10) Third, regarding depth, Maebashi City has taken an additional questionnaire that focuses on time poverty, especially women's lack of time. It is open to the public, so please take a look at it on the dashboard when you have time. Yokohama City is for young people, and Kamakura City is for circular society and circular economy, so additional questions are asked by theme. If such attempts are made, I think the perspective will rise to capture the characteristics of various towns.
(p. 11) After that, although we did not go to the output and outcome, Kakogawa City was an example of the materialization of annual measures, but in Hamamatsu city, a basic plan, a 10-year one, came out.
(p. 12) Then, in Aizuwakamatsu, it is a comprehensive strategy for the creation of towns, people, and jobs, and this is a 4-year one, and this indicator of area happiness is used.
(p. 13) We have conducted various OASIS training so far, but we have received requests from people who want us to create a level one higher, so we have started a master level training. Then, we are changing industries, and we are introducing business to private sector companies and civic training for citizens next fiscal year. In terms of business, we are at the stage where the PoC has been completed by a public-private study group centered on Kamakura City, so we are now in the development mode.
(p. 14) Yes, this is the end of the first document.
(Reference 3-2p. 1) The second theme is how much correlation there is between subjective and objective indicators.
(p. 2) This was a topic of conversation at the third Review Meeting, and we unexpectedly came up with a figure that there was no correlation, so I worried you a little, so I'm doing a little deep dive this time.
According to the results, in 73% of the 120 KPIs, correlation and correlation coefficient of 0.4 or more were confirmed in some form. I would also like to explain the status of the remaining 27%.
(p. 3) What I showed you last time, in the third installment, is this. If you look at the left side, the horizontal axis is the average value of 24 categories, and the vertical axis is the average value of 24 subjective values. By comparing the subjective and objective averages for each city, we took a scatter chart and measured the correlation. It was 0.3. On the right side, it was 0.4 for prefectures, so it was surprising that it wasn't there.
(p. 4) This time, it is not a prefecture, but a more detailed level at the municipal level, and when we look at each category, it is like this. There is a 0.9 correlation coefficient for movement and traffic, and the correlation coefficient decreases all the way to the right, but it is more than 0.4 to the extent of digital life. This means that there is such a correlation when the current KPIs themselves are collated.
(p. 5) In this Venn diagram, there are 43 KPIs on the left side of the Venn diagram, which is 36%. When the remaining 23 are segmented, there are cases where a correlation can be obtained for each segment, and when those obtained by age, sex, and local block are combined, a correlation can be obtained for 73%. The remaining 23 have almost no correlation, but I would like to explain this.
(p. 6) First of all, if you look at the right side of this logic tree, it has become clear that the eight KPIs do not respond very much to policy interventions in any way of measurement or expression. The population density system and the number of students per facility system. If you look at the 120 KPIs excluding this, you can see in the tree on the left side, the one that can be correlated in the whole population unit itself and the one that can be correlated by dividing by the segment.
Others are potentially correlated, but the current combination of KPIs and questions doesn't work. For example, self-efficacy.
(p. 5) If you look at the previous figure, it is on the far right, but in response to the subjective question of whether I can do something, the objective is voter turnout. I have been thinking about this with Mr. Uchida, and this is the only combination available now, but in Japan, this combination is not necessarily very functional.
(p. 6) Then, immediately to the right, regardless of the correlation, there are important things, so-called disasters and crimes, which do not occur frequently, so they are extremely important in terms of policy, but they fall from people's short-term perceptions. I have come to understand this.
I believe that it is important to continue to use the items circled in red.
(p. 7) A more detailed one is like this. It is a little difficult to see, so I would like you to take a closer look at it later when you have time. For example, if you look at the left side, the vertical axis of the medical care and welfare fields is the question "Do you think medical care is fulfilling?" and the horizontal axis is the objective KPI. In this, the colored "current" is that the correlation was 0.4 or more at the all population level in the KPI up to now.
Next, the National Health Insurance medical care Expenses per Population is written as "Chi," which means that at the area level, the correlation coefficient was more than 0.4 points. If you look at the next to the right, the welfare facility walking distance population coverage ratio, this is in orange, and it is written as "Year" and "Chi," which means that there was a correlation between the age segment and the area block segment.
(p. 8) If we look at it this way, there are various things that have a correlation and do not have a correlation.
(p. 9) Surprisingly, in terms of nature, as Professor Hiroo pointed out earlier, there is no correlation between the Natural Landscape Index and "there are natural landscapes that we can be proud of," so it falls into the so-called bias.
The accident at the bottom of the middle, and the crime at the bottom right, also fall into such a place. Professor Naoki Ota pointed out that landscape capital is an extremely important indicator, but I think that there is still a battle that landscape capital is not recognized.
(p. 10) It looks like this. I would like you to take a look at it.
(p. 12) I would like to end with a few segment examples.
In terms of age and age segments, where is the segment in which the relationship with area is important? Until now, I have been aware that people who have lived in the area for more than 20 years have a lot of affection for the town and are more likely to participate in community activities. Surprisingly, people in their 30s and 40s are very responsive, and the child-rearing generation feels the significance of the relationship with area. I think this is an interesting new finding from the data.
(p. 13) If we look at the area Block, in terms of employment-related relations, there are very strong responses in the Kanto and Shikoku regions, but it is difficult to see them in the rest of the area. There are regional characteristics, and I believe that there are some implications behind this, although I will not know for certain unless I examine this in depth.
(p. 14) In addition, the relationship between the overall indicator of well-being and subjectivity is also the same. If you arrange them in 24 categories from the highest correlation coefficient, it will be like this. This is the reference material. This is the relationship between happiness and how happy you are on a scale of 0 to 10.
(p. 15) And life satisfaction is like this. After all, life satisfaction has a higher correlation.
(p. 16) Also, Mr. Uchida's cooperative happiness is relatively close to life satisfaction, and this is coming out.
(p. 2) In addition, I would like you to take a look at the attachment. As for the final conclusion, if you look at the bullet point at the bottom of the summary page, the number of questions is 50, but some people say that is still a large number, so I think it is difficult to increase the number of questions.
As for objective KPIs, with the cooperation of Mr. Digital Agency, all ministries and agencies gathered and came up with the wisdom to the point that there could be no more than this. The combination of the two is the current indicator group. I think it is appropriate to think that this is the product performance of the area Well-Being Indicator.
Based on this kind of analysis, we can see that there is a complement between the subjective and objective aspects of data in various ways, and that the meaning of data cannot be read unless the characteristics of area and context are understood. In that sense, I have a conclusion that it is very important to have the wisdom to use data well in the field while development the practical ability of the field.
That's all from me. Thank you very much.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much.
So, let's continue with ②. The local governments is here, isn't it? Please.
Suzuki (Digital Agency): .
Now, I would like to explain based on the materials. It is about the promotion of the utilization of indicators.
(p. 2) First of all, in retrospect of the previous meeting, in addition to the development of workshops, it was necessary to grasp and follow the degree of recognition of the indicator, and I received opinions from the members of the Committee.
In addition, I believe that there were three major comments on the logic tree. The first is that there is a possibility that a change from input-type measures to management-type measures will lead to an increase in a sense of well-being. In order to make a logic tree that leads to such a change in the implementation method, it is good to create one led by local government, but after that, it will be necessary to communicate it in order to connect it to cooperation between industry, government, and academia.
My second point is that the key point is the evolution of the final impact. In order to connect finance to finance, it is important to create and send out good cases for dissemination.
My third question is that in order to promote the use of the SDF in local government, I believe it is necessary to have a system to accompany the SDF. That is the three points I received.
Based on this, I will explain today, but in addition to that, I would like to hear your opinions on the following points: support for the implementation of workshops, development of human resources who can handle indicators, response to areas that span multiple organizations, and improvement of provided data.
(p. 3) Regarding the number of organizations using the Well-Being Indicator by prefecture, as of March 21, we were able to grasp the utilization of 76 organizations in total. There may be more than this, but these are the current numbers. The largest number is Shizuoka Prefecture with six cases.
(p. 4) We conducted a survey on the utilization status of the indicator, and I would like to explain the outline of the results. This is the part about the recognition and spread of the indicator that we received last time.
As I mentioned earlier, there are 76 organizations in local government, but I recognize that there are still 76 organizations. In order to support the smooth utilization of indicators and to promote the utilization of indicators in the entire local government, there is a recognition that the service of the site needs to be improved, so we conducted a survey and research.
At that time, we conducted a survey of the organizations that adopted Digita Issue Gold and the organizations of Type I and Type X (My Number Card Utilization Horizontal Deployment Case Creation Type), but it was revealed that the recognition level was low and that the workload, etc. were barriers to entry.
First of all, regarding the degree of recognition, we conducted a survey of all 899 organizations targeted by the questionnaire, and received responses from 584 organizations. As you can see in the lower left of the graph, less than 50% of the organizations selected by Digita Issue Kin received recognition.
The circular graph next to this one shows that the number of organizations that have never seen the results of a nationwide survey of the results shown by Digital Agency has further decreased, and even though Digita Issue Gold has been adopted, the indicators have never been confirmed. This is what the survey found.
As for the dissemination, as you can see in the bar graph on the right page, the reasons why we have not implemented (or considered) measures using the results of the survey on the area Well-Being Indicator were that "we do not know how to use it," as well as "I want to use it, but I am busy with my usual work," in 111 cases, and "I cannot secure the cost for survey and analysis" in 79 cases.
According to interviews with some organizations, there is a certain amount of administrative burden due to the distribution, tabulation, and analysis of the questionnaire, and the cost incurred due to outsourcing is a burden. In addition, as a problem on the residents' side, the number of questions has been reduced from 160 to 50, but the number of questions is still large, and it is a burden on the citizens who respond.
In addition, some respondents said that they believe that the utilization of the happiness index is still at the stage where knowledge is accumulated, and it has been revealed from the survey that there are many organizations that are so-called wait-and-see.
(p. 5) Based on this, we would like to improve the area Well-Being Indicator Site.
In order for local government to measure the indicators, we will add a questionnaire function to the site to be released in the future, and we would like to release it around the fall of 2024. In the questionnaire function, we will conduct information security and appropriate authority management, and by conducting the questionnaire under a safe and secure mechanism, we aim to reduce the burden on local government and the residents who respond, and realize the authenticity and fairness of one vote per person.
It is a subjective questionnaire for the Well-being Index, so it will be 50 questions, 5 questions and 11 questions. We would like to make this questionnaire available on the website. For the parts that are common to all organizations, we would like to reduce the burden by providing a questionnaire function as a common service.
To be more specific, if I ask people in local government, they want to conduct a web survey that is easy to handle, but if the number of questions in the web survey is large, the collection rate will decrease. If it is a postal survey, it is very burdensome due to the large number of man-hours required for data punching. In the case of the web, I hear that there are concerns about how to provide incentives to increase the collection rate.
In addition, many local government conduct questionnaires both by mail and on the web. In this case, some prefectures are struggling with a mechanism to eliminate the risk of duplicate answers. By creating this system, we would like to proceed with the questionnaire in a way that prevents duplicate answers as much as possible, secures anonymity, and allows each person to submit one questionnaire.
As for the main functions, for local government, we are considering functions such as questionnaire creation, customization that allows you to set your own questions, questionnaire distribution, management, response status management, and questionnaire result download and upload. For the respondents, we would like to make it a form that can be temporarily stored because there are many questionnaire responses and 50 questions.
In addition, we believe that identity verification using the digital authentication App will ensure the authenticity of each person and vote by ensuring anonymity in the form of retaining only attribute information.
On the right side of the screen, we would like to make the UI and UX images multi-device compatible in consideration of the various use environments of users.
As shown in the figure, we would like to help the people of local government by displaying a simple analysis.
As for the schedule, as shown in the lower left, we would like to release the beta version around summer, make a testing with the cooperation of several organizations, and make a full-scale release around October.
We would like to explain the details again before we make it public.
(p. 6) Next, regarding our efforts to promote utilization and raise awareness, we would like to advance our efforts in fiscal 2024 to further promote utilization and raise awareness.
In fiscal 2024, we will conduct a nationwide survey of the standard 50 questions.
In addition, we will develop online workshops for local government employees, and develop and dispatch facilitators to provide on-the-spot support and guidance on the utilization of local government indicators.
In addition, as a topic to be discussed later, we will create a reference logic tree (draft) and disclose the guidelines for the use of logic tree.
We will continue to operate the consultation service for people in local government, which we have been doing since this fiscal year, and we will respond to inquiries from anyone regardless of whether the Digita Issue Fund is adopted or not.
Specifically, regarding the training and dispatch of facilitators, after holding the training course, we will build a dispatch system to dispatch facilitators. Until now, Mr. Nagumo has visited each organization alone, but we hope to train many facilitators and make them active in various parts of Japan.
In addition, in order to introduce good examples of utilization, there are many organizations that are watching the situation without use cases, so we would like to provide information to organizations that do not know or are considering utilization methods by posting many utilization methods on the newly constructed site.
(p. 9) As we have just mentioned, we plan to open a new website for indicators on March 29.
In addition, regarding the Digital Agency website, the area Well-Being Indicator has been included in the Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation National Concept page, but since the amount of information has increased, it has been set up as a separate page. Please take a look at it when you have time.
That's all for my explanation.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much.
Do you have any questions about (2)? If so, please let me know.
Mr. Seki: I was listening to you because I thought . Is that all right?
Chairman Maeno: Yes, please.
Mr. Seki: I was listening to you because I thought : Thank you very much.
Providing a questionnaire system in SaaS is a very Digital Agency approach, and I thought it was good, but I am very interested in how to create a mechanism for one person, one vote technically, although it may be a little different from the main topic.
In addition, I believe that the dispatch of facilitators should be conducted, but I would like to ask if you have an image of actually training local government staff so that they can help other local government, or if people from private sector can also serve as facilitators, and what kind of people will be involved.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, please answer.
Suzuki (Digital Agency): .
First of all, with regard to the technical part, since we are still working on how to respond with the digital authentication signature App Team and the person in charge of personal data Conservation, I cannot give you a clear explanation here, but we would like to clear up such technical parts and consider ways to maintain the authenticity of each person and vote.
Regarding the training and dispatch of facilitators, we would like to invite not only the public but also the people of private sector to participate, and we would like to expand the base.
That's all.
Mr. Seki: I was listening to you because I thought : Thank you very much.
Recently, local government staff have been providing support to other local government, such as service desk DX, but in the first place, there are many places where it is difficult to make time to take care of other local government, so I would like you to think about the mechanism to make it possible for people to go out well.
Also, if we focus only on online, I think we may be concerned about the bias. I feel that we may receive responses from people who do not have access to such tools. What are your thoughts on this?
Suzuki (Digital Agency): Yes, thank you.
In fact, in local government, there are many places that use both mail and the web, so we would like to proceed with the system so that we can print out the questionnaire form from the system so that we can do both by issuing an ID.
Mr. Seki: I was listening to you because I thought Printing.
Suzuki (Digital Agency): Hai.
Mr. Seki: I was listening to you because I thought Yes, thank you.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you.
Do you have any other questions or comments?
Member: Is it all right to have Mr. Nagumo's explanation before that, instead of the matter just now?
Chairman Maeno: Yes, of course.
Member: Yes, thank you.
When I reanalyzed it, I thought it was great that I could see a lot more ahead. So, when I continue to do this statistical analysis, I think it would be good to challenge the connection from the objective indicator to the subjective sense of well-being, or to explain the subjective sense of well-being with the objective indicator, but is it done?
Member Nagumo: objective.
Member: , that's right, that's right.
Member Nagumo: I did this once, but there is not so much correlation. Mr. Maeno has the same experience, so I have tried to make it easier to understand if I divide the subjective into factors and combine them with the objective.
Member: I understand.
If so, that's it. However, I have conducted similar research elsewhere, and I think that many of the objective indicators probably include specific outputs from the inputs that can be used as policy indicators or policy tools. In that case, I think that we may not be able to properly evaluate the part that oozes from people's real lives, such as the sense of happiness.
The meaning of that is that the policy itself, for example, has a relatively high correlation between subjective indicators and objective indicators, for example, the transportation service in public transportation. That's true. It's easy to understand, for example, it's about increasing bus stops or building railway stations, or I think it's about raising the level of those, which is very easy to understand, but what is important is that, for example, whether the park, subjective evaluation, and sense of well-being will be connected well may not be a matter of quantitatively improving the park. To put it simply
Therefore, the question of how to evaluate the quality of service has begun to be asked, and I think we are at a turning point in good policy. Therefore, I think that the fact that objective indicators, which are so-called input indicators, cannot explain subjective well-being well or draw a good path to it is, in a sense, a good opportunity to reassess the future of local government policy in the digital age. I am thinking that it may be easier to understand if we try to change the way to convert to a qualitative one, change the input from a qualitative point of view, or change the way to obtain objective indicators, which are indicators to evaluate the input. I would like you to brush up on that. There are many academic teachers here, so I was thinking that it would be a good area to try as a new challenge with a network of academic teachers. I also made a comment.
Member Nagumo: Yes, thank you.
I recognize that this is exactly what Mr. Koizumi said, and I think that we are at a very good point in the sense that objective indicators such as quantitative measurements have been created from Open KPI, and psychological measurement methods such as positive psychology have emerged, and the true value is now being tested at the junction.
When I combine subjectivity and objectivity well, I think I can see a path of happiness in public spaces and the richness of education opportunities. Other than that, I can see cases where I can almost do it, and cases where I can fall due to subjective bias.
The other thing that I thought might be the case for a while at the design stage was that the subjective questionnaire was something I thought in my mind, and the objective was relatively counting the number of existence such as whether there is a box or not. I thought that if there is human behavior in between and if the behavior pattern can be recognized, there is a possibility that it will be connected in a way like a three stage rocket.
At present, we are trying not to increase the number of questions, improving the poor range of data, and narrowing down the ideas. We are now standing at a mezzanine level.
Member: : I think it is as you pointed out. For example, when we look at each objective local government and the basic local government level, we see that objective indicators and subjective evaluations are not very well connected, and that happiness is not connected. That may be the place where we actually need to change the way policies are formulated. I have a slight feeling that we may be able to get a hint that we need to change the way policies are formulated. I used the example of a park earlier. As Mr. Nagumo said, just building a park costs maintenance and management expenses, but if everyone is not using it, it becomes a material.
I feel that we can use it in a way that makes it possible for everyone to use it, that everyone can come to it, that we need to make efforts for software, and that we can understand this by behavioral analysis, or at least by conducting follow-up surveys on why this is the case, so that we can approach more effective policies.
Yes, thank you for your continued support.
Member Nagumo: : Thank you very much.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you.
In relation to the question you just asked, I have actually made an attempt to look at the relationship by drawing a story of logic tree for that very policy change in (3), so I think it would be good if you could talk about that first and ask further questions from each teacher. Is that okay?
Then, please tell me about number (3), the reference logic tree.
Director-General: .
(p. 2) Please turn up one slide, and the two slides you saw before continue. In terms of the Well-Being Indicator, including the supplementary part in the first half, I feel that there is a certain response to the fact that more than 70 local government are actually analyzing it.
However, as you saw in the questionnaire, there are probably about 200 local government who are ready to do more, but do not know how to do it. In addition, you introduced the development of human resources who can work with and coordinate with Issue. There are about 200 people who have completed one cycle. If we do this to those 200 people, some of them will be able to teach us. First of all, through the analysis of Well-Being Indicators, we would like to proceed with the part written as "Agreement with Okinawa", which is in the second or third year.
At the same time, what I would like to discuss today is my understanding of the field and my understanding that this area is weak. However, I believe that there is a lack of tools that can lead to which measures should be strengthened. Therefore, I would like to propose a logic tree plan.
(p. 3) On the next page, if we can identify and share the social Issue that should be shared between the public and private sectors, can we identify and share the necessary measures and residents' behavior? As mentioned in Initiative 2, can we provide a reference logic tree and use it to conduct analysis training at the level of measures and residents' behavior?
In addition, as I will report later because it is not today's subject, we are actually trying to create an app that can be captured through the granting of points for citizens' actions, such as participating in health promotion classes or riding the public transportation. If we can do this, we will be able to see not only what measures have been taken, but also who and how many people are working on those measures in real time. By combining this with logic tree, we will be able to see measures in the field and the specific extent to which the measures are producing outputs. First of all, we would like to proceed with the analysis of the utilization of the Well-Being Indicator itself for the second and third cycles, but at the same time, we would like to do it next fiscal year, the first year of Initiative 2.
(p. 4) So, taking medical care as a sample, I would like to introduce a prototype of what it is.
(p. 5) We are making a prototype with the cooperation of Mr. Inoue and several other teams including Mr. Shirasaka.
In the end, I will show it to each ministry, and I am working on the premise that I will ask the organizations that have obtained Type2 / 3 of Digita Issue Kin to work with this as a reference.
The reference logic tree is written to mean that it is not necessarily a single policy logic, so it is only a model to be referred to. At first, it was also called a standard, but if it is a standard, it means that it is a standard policy. Therefore, it is written as a reference logic tree.
It says from the 1st level to the 5th level, but I made a prototype of the construction from 1 to 3 and from 4 to 5, which are slightly different in character and work method.
Looking from the right side of the fifth level, this can be completely the name of the individual project. Either it is not yet possible to specify it, or if it is completely the name of the individual project, it is difficult to know which local government's measures were taken. Even so, it is somewhat abstracted. For example, this picture itself is about the improvement of medical care and nursing care environments, so the image is that the measures taken by municipalities in the medical care and nursing care field are arranged on the right side.
On the other hand, in the fourth level, policy evaluation and direct outputs of each measure, which I think EBPM is still doing, will be included in the fourth level. This is a field where objective indicators are easier to obtain, and of course, subjective indicators can be used. For example, in the middle or fifth level, promotion of digitalization of procedures, it is clear how many procedures can be done online, but I think it will be the fourth level in terms of a sense of balance between Well-Being and subjective happiness.
These two are more or less measures taken by each local government and direct outputs of those measures, so we understand that various variations will be produced by working on the local government side.
On the other hand, what happens when we jump to the third level is more of an outcome. Let me break it down into one, two, and three sets. In the entire field, I wanted to write about the relationship between medical care and nursing care, and the reduction of medical care and nursing care costs. However, there was a discussion that if I write about the reduction of medical care and nursing care costs, medical care and nursing care costs seem to be high. Therefore, I decided to stop doing that. However, I assume that it will be around the second level that we will hit with the size and granularity of grain and the item that we want to do something about through the analysis of the Well-Being Indicator.
Among the policy fields of medical care and nursing care, there are about three major policy fields, medical care services, nursing care services, and health, and goals. If we logically break down what is necessary to achieve them, we can see that things of this level, such as the absence of workers, the improvement of productivity and work efficiency, and the enhancement of care for specific diseases and dementias, will be listed.
For example, if we were to list the proposition of care for specific diseases and dementias on an outcome basis, there would be talk about the development of facilities as a constituent element, and how much home-based care has been strengthened as a support function. There would also be talk about how it was not good to connect it to digitalization. I have cut a line a little bit, but when it comes to care for dementias, if you want to draw a line, it may be related to a public space or public transportation where citizens can easily gather. In fact, I think that the impact of individual measures must be superimposed on the transition from the fourth level to the third level.
In fact, another feature of this logic tree is that it properly looks at the policy impact across the departments of municipalities.
Probably, the fourth and fifth categories can be accommodated in the vertical division of the Social welfare Department, the education Committee, or in some cases, in some division of the Department. For example, we often have a measure called Health Promotion Class. The direct output is the participation rate in health promotion activities. We suddenly ask how many healthy people are in the outcome, but up to the fourth level, it is okay to do so, but even if a health promotion class is held, if there are no legs to go to it, only healthy elderly people who do not need to return their driver's licenses may gather. Moreover, even if healthy elderly people gather and exercise in the health promotion class, lifestyle-related diseases cannot be cured if they eat a meal rich in salt at home. Probably, many outcomes of public office are set based on the assumption that each department will be the outcome, but in reality, unless the outcomes of various measures are accumulated across departments, the original outcomes will not be achieved. I think it is necessary to pursue the correlations between the measures.
There may be a similar gap between the third and fourth departments, but what do you think about the enhancement of medical care services in our town as a policy goal for the outcome that appears at the third level level? Is our town care-friendly? Is our town enthusiastic about health? If so, I think that the policy goal will not appear unless the measures of various departments, such as the medical care Department, the Nursing Care Department, for example, the person in charge of mobility, the creation of purpose in life, and the education for adults, are taken over.
Actually, if you look at the reference logic here to some extent, and then paste the measures of your town in the fourth and fifth places, on the contrary, there are some towns that do not have any measures in this area at all because they are not all lined up neatly like this. There are some cases where it can be seen that this area is doing it but this area is not doing it. To some extent, from the first to the third, look at this reference logic tree and look for what hangs under it. Of course, if there is something that is important, you can add a unique item to the third or the fourth.
I will show you a frame of this shape, and let's make a validation of how the measures are sticking to the requests for improvement at the first or second level that emerge as a result of the analysis of Well-Being. This is the construction.
(p. 6) The following pages are still for reference, but I believe that there are indicators for each box. After working on it a little, I would like to say that there are indicators for level 1, (p. 7) for level 2, and (p. 8-9) for level 3. I would like to say that this should be added to the reference logic tree and that this should be attempted.
Basically, we select items from among the 50 questions in the LWCI questionnaire and those that have already been published as objective indicators on the website. However, some items are not enough, and we have added items that we believe can be used from publicly available statistical data.
In this way, with the proposed indicators for the logic tree and the logic tree box, I would like to ask the people of local government, who have actually analyzed the indicators of Well-Being, to choose one field or another and try it.
There are no indicators yet, but as a prototype, in addition to medical care and nursing care, there are two more parts. Childcare and preschoolers. The part of childcare is maternal and child health, balancing work and childcare, and childcare environments. Looking at the third level, maternal and child health care, child health care, opportunities and quality of childcare, working environments for mothers and fathers, economic burdens, responses to childcare with Issue, whether or not childcare can be done with peace of mind, reduction of anxiety for parents, and diverse learning and individuality of area. (p. 11) The next page is the last, but in mobility and mobility, we have arranged the third level for the three aspects of improvements in productivity in mobility itself, improvement of access to mobility, and mobility and community development.
Today, I would like to make a reference logic tree based on this concept, and I would like to hear your opinions on the attempt to make it possible for local government, who is somewhat used to using it, to try it. At the end, I would like to hear your comments after confessing the weak points of using it.
If I were to explain mobility as it is, I would say that Level 4 and Level 5 are probably led by objective indicators, but I would say that Level 2 and Level 3 are more important goals than objective indicators in terms of improving the satisfaction level of subjective indicators. In fact, when I paste them, both subjective and objective indicators are attached, so it is difficult to organize them neatly. This is my first point.
The second is that, in fact, it has been pointed out that the reason why the logic tree plan is being drawn up in this way is that the themes taken up are fields such as mobility, childcare, medical care and nursing care, which are somewhat objectively easy to take up as policies.
For example, if I put community development with a high sense of self-affirmation at Level 1, I would like to work on what will come at Level 2 and what will come at Level 3, but it seems to be quite difficult to draw them.
In that sense, there is a possibility that the discussion on logic tree itself is a slightly biased approach to fields that are somewhat strong in objective indicators, and there is probably a certain limit to whether or not the improvement of the subjective well-being of citizens can be incorporated into the PDCA cycle of the entire policy only by this logic tree initiative. I think the issue is how to think about this point.
However, in relation to this point, I would like to add one more point. For example, in the Seiwa district of Taki-cho, Mie prefecture, and in a certain city with a core population of about 300,000, we examined the accessibility of public transportation to nursery schools and shopping. Despite the fact that both cities are almost the same in terms of accessibility and the frequency of public transportation use, Taki-cho was found to be very high in satisfaction and the core city was found to be low in satisfaction.
In other words, whether it is OK to wait for a taxi for five minutes or 30 minutes, there are towns where people are satisfied even if they wait for 30 minutes and towns where people are irritated even if they wait for five minutes. We have confirmed that there are cases where the same objective indicators appear and there is a gap in subjective satisfaction even in fields such as mobility. I think we should discuss how to think about such cases.
In conclusion, in that sense, I believe that the overall measures will be more oriented toward logic tree indicators. As I mentioned earlier, what kind of measures can be drawn by putting area development, which has a high sense of self-affirmation, at the first level? In other words, what can't be drawn is, on the contrary, in reality, it has not been recognized as a policy in current public policy, or there is actually no action to be taken. So, although it may be difficult to launch it right away this fiscal year, I would like to emphasize this as a research theme to be studied or discussed next fiscal year.
I'm sorry to have talked so much.
That's all. If you don't mind, Mr. Inoue, the people who actually worked on it are Mr. Inoue and several other intellectuals. So, I would like to hear your impressions and supplements, and if there is anything I can explain, I would like to hear it.
That's all.
Member Inoue: Yes, Mr. Murakami, thank you very much.
I would like to ask about three points, although I have not made any additional comments since you have fully explained the whole.
One is that although it is written as a logic tree, it is not a so-called logic tree structure. In short, it is logically developed, but it is not reduced to elements.
Rather, I think that the part that is told as a story is large in the figure.
Therefore, in the field of finance, a value creation story is drawn, and I was working while thinking that it would be similar to that.
When you actually create this, if you work in cooperation with the public and private sectors, you may be able to call on the sympathy of each stakeholder.
So, of course, there may be a case where the public office of the city draws the logic tree independently, but I think that the process of drawing the reference logic tree and drawing the lines together with multiple stakeholders can be important.
Lastly, I would like to say one thing. In terms of the proposals for indicators at this point, the LWCI indicator does not exactly apply to all items. So, I would like to hear your opinions on what kind of subjective indicators are likely to apply and what kind of indicators can be used.
That's all from me.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much. Now that I've finished all the explanations, I would like to ask for your opinions freely. What do you think, teachers?
Member Nagumo: logic tree, it is a common practice in corporate management to arrange things in this way. It is a common practice in the decomposition of strategies and management quality control, so it can be considered that it is happening in the unit of "town." However, I think there are some difficulties or points that need to be overcome.
The first point is that we need a tutor to teach us how to do it. I think people in local government alone have an impression that it is quite difficult to approach. It is difficult to just take a questionnaire, and moreover, I do not know how to use it. On top of that, I recognize that there is another tool, and I do not know how to do it, and I do not have time, so it does not proceed as expected. There is a problem of how to facilitate that. I used to do the same thing by obtaining a Six Sigma Black Belt qualification, but I cannot recognize the details without considerable training. This is the kind of thing that a so-called facilitator cannot do. How to produce teachers and who will pay the cost remain as real problems.
Second, as Mr. Murakami was also aware, basically, it is a kind of structure that is more oriented toward economic rationality. Therefore, I am completely addicted to the work of creating a tree of objective indicators to connect to finance, but in order to reach subjective happiness, I am worried that if I do not have a little more wisdom, I will feel "Well, that's fine." In other words, I will "do it anyway without thinking deeply because I was told to do so." On the contrary, I think that I must listen to the opinions of teachers of happiness first.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much. I would also like to say a few words. As I am a researcher of Well-Being and Innovation, as Mr. Koizumi said, there are places where conventional policies cannot be done. For example, instead of creating parks, it is necessary to change the way of thinking about how to use parks. I think it is appropriate to take a new energetic approach in which new policies that were not seen in the world emerge from local government by exercising new creativeness, thinking about the characteristics of each region, brainstorming freely through workshops between the public, residents, industry, government, and academia, sharing ideas, and seeing some opportunities from them.
Unlike ordinary facilitators, innovation facilitators must be highly proficient facilitators. As you said, Mr. Nagumo, you may say that local government does not know how to do this at all, but I think it is very important to overcome this and I think this program is interesting. In order to create a happy world using digital technology, there is one birth difficulty, but beyond that, something new must come into sight.
You can imagine. There are endless ideas, such as what kind of playground equipment should be made in the park to attract people, what kind of trees should be planted, etc. I think it is a story about how to do that.
Member Sasao: I am Sasao from the University of Tokyo in . Indicators are very important, but when I participated in the creation of the logic tree by the Cabinet Office, I very much realized that it would have a considerable impact if each local government created them. In that sense, I think it is important to reduce the impact so that local government can be easily used.
In particular, I think it is difficult to decide what kind of indicators to create in the outcome section. I think the content of the output items will be determined for each measure. As for the outcome indicators, I think that there will be indicators that can be used in common in every local government in each field. Therefore, I think it would be good to focus on creating many references while thoroughly discussing with various experts.
One more point. In another story, I think there was a discussion about whether it would be good to take behavioral indicators, especially when conducting subjective evaluation of outcomes. When asking about satisfaction levels or the quality of measures, there is a big difference between the evaluation of people who actually experience and use the service and the evaluation of people who do not use the service itself. For example, when a new mobility is introduced, I think there are people who use the mobility and find that their satisfaction levels have increased a little, and people who do not experience it. If we do not evaluate people with such attributes separately, I think it will be difficult to discuss how to improve them. When investigating subjective evaluation, I think it is necessary to consider people who use the target measures and services separately from people who do not use them. That is all.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much. Mr. Ishikawa, please.
ISHIKAWA: Thank you very much, . First of all, I think this logic tree is truly innovative, and therefore there are still Issue that need to be overcome. At the same time, I felt a premonition that if this could be done, it would be a great thing.
In addition, the more I do this logic tree, the more attention I tend to pay to the details, but when I look at it a little bit, I wonder what the core components are, and if I can give some guidance on them.
For example, on March 20, the WorldHappinessReport was published. It shows the ranking of subjective well-being by country. It shows six core components of why subjective well-being differs so much from country to country. It shows healthy life expectancy, GDP, and linkage. More importantly, it shows up to what percentage of the difference in subjective well-being between countries can be explained by these six factors, including their limitations. The intention is that, basically, subjective well-being differs so much from country to country, but by approaching the six factors, it shows where there is a difference and how to increase subjective well-being.
The reason why I am talking about this is, as Mr. Nagumo mentioned earlier, probably from the perspective of people in local government, they want to know what works and what does not work for subjective well-being. For example, such objective indicators are not working for subjective well-being at least for now. When looking at the whole country, the core logic components and elements are, for example, these 10. However, there are still some parts that cannot be explained with these 10, so in the original part, we should try and do something by trial and error. I thought it would be good if we could work in the form of core components plus each local government's own efforts.
In addition, as Murakami-san mentioned earlier, it is easy to create a logic tree in the medical care field. On the other hand, there are some fields that are difficult to create, so I would like to show you which fields are easy to create and which are difficult to create. Then, I would like to start with this department in local government, so I think it will be easier to work on it.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you for your important comment.
Member Nagumo: I think what Mr. Ishikawa just said is very important. In short, if you keep on decomposing the tree as a chimimoryo, you cannot see the macro sense or the whole sense. I think this is one of the peculiarities of this methodology.
In the case of the OASIS training conducted by SCI-Japan, we have a process in which we are forced to select only eight factors out of 24 factors of happiness. We have considered the reason why we should first select factors that make the most of individuality and work for happiness for the city. We have also created a process in which we divide the factors into logic tree for each persona, and create a logic model at the end of the division to validation the feasibility. The sense of macro is extremely important, and I think it is better to avoid going into the details without a vision of what kind of city we aim for.
Second, what Ishikawa-san said is also a very important point. Like the six factors in the World Happiness Report, this factor should always be considered. When considering Japanese culture and the sense of well-being of the Japanese people, some central factor that becomes the core will surely emerge. There may be a problem of whether or not it is okay to decide it from the top down, but even if you do it from the bottom up, I think you will always find something like this. By the way, when OASIS training is held in many local government, the theme of medical care Health comes up as an iron plate. And mobility is also often taken up. But there is a feeling that I have done all I can, and I don't see much creativity. Surprisingly, there are many themes of mothers and mothers who are raising children. There are many cases where people realize that they have not been able to work on them until now, and that they still have much work to do.
In addition, in Kakogawa City, which you first mentioned, it was found that culture and art are highly correlated with a sense of happiness, and at the mayor's suggestion, it was decided to turn into a "music city." Although there were various improvements to the infrastructure, such as the water supply and parks, it was interesting to see what had not been seen until now in other places. It was culture and art. Therefore, I think it is better to keep in mind that there is a possibility that the key to true happiness lies in the places that are easy to write and difficult to write, which are actually difficult to write, as Mr. Ishikawa said at the end.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much. How about other teachers? Mr. Koizumi, please.
Member: , Thank you very much. To be honest, I think it is very difficult, and I think everyone has the same impression. Everyone made a very constructive comment, but I honestly thought, what do you think, is it good to do this kind of thing? There are various business systems as a country, and Japanese society has the situation where basic local government and prefectural governments have no choice but to use them, so I feel that this way of doing things is fine in a society where such business menus are fixed. Therefore, I thought that in particularly important areas, it is certainly possible to prepare several of these as assistants when evaluating subsidies, and to have them do it by referring to them.
On the other hand, I very much sympathize with what Mr. Maeno said, but I can see that unless we create a certain kind of innovative initiative at the basic local government level, the Japanese area and other regions will no longer operate well, and I have expectations that what Mr. Nagumo and others are doing may have an impact on it. Because when I put subjective sense of well-being as a base, it has actually come out in the initiatives I am considering with other ordinance-designated cities that the quantitative policies that have been in place so far will not work. As a result, discussions are beginning to emerge that the existing policy approach needs to be revised in the first place. I think that it is necessary to make efforts that will have an impact on such a point, and I thought that it is also necessary to create an logic tree from the perspective of what everyone living in each local government and those in charge will attach importance to. I thought that it would be good to convey the nuance of that well.
It may be necessary, but I have the impression that this alone does not give us a creative future.
Chairman Maeno: . When I listen to the teachers' discussions, there are two areas: clarifying what can be done so far by linking it with quantitative policies, and from here on, let's all make use of our individuality and be innovative. I feel that I will go only to the former area, and I will end up being unable to measure happiness. On the other hand, if I pursue innovation alone, I will be in trouble even if local government says so. I hope that I can present both what can be done by conventional policies and what is actually very new and interesting, which cannot be done by conventional policies, in a way that is easy to see. On the other hand, if I do not present them well, local government will misunderstand and feel like I have done only conventional policies, or I will get lost in trying to do something new. I think it is very difficult to prevent such a thing from happening.
Mr. Seki: I was listening to you because I thought was a very good discussion. I myself was supporting various local government, and I wondered how many local government I could do so far. In the first place, it is quite difficult for local government to discuss across departments, and this is similar to the difficulty of the transformation side of DX. It is very difficult to think about what should be by cutting measures horizontally and thinking about what everyone should be, so I think it will not be a routine work unless we change the box from the top down, like creating a team with horizontal teams. However, if you want to try it on a spot, I think there are parts that can be done, so I think we will start with a simple training, and it will spread from the heat of the facilitators and the evangelists. If we don't continue it for a long time, it will not catch fire, or even if it catches fire, it will disappear soon. I thought it was something like that even if people with motivation try hard, they will not do it if they are transferred.
If I change my perspective a little bit, I think this is probably a very good thing to do with citizens. The Code for Japan also creates logic models, and the people who participated in it think that the act of creating it itself is very meaningful and educational, and it was good to do it. I think there is a direction for public-private cooperation to expand in such a way that it is a tool to think about what the town should be like with citizens.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much.
Director-General: May I make a few comments here? There are two main ones.
First, I would like to explain the background of why I came up with this idea in the first place. The keyword is the self-reliance of policies. The reason why I suddenly started to say self-reliance is that I always tell people in the Agency to read Newsom's book "The Future Government," but in fact, not only the Kishida Administration but almost all governments in developed countries have lost their support ratings. The reason is that if we go into it as a binary confrontation between the side that gives public service and the side that is given it, no matter what policy we propose, no one will be able to get out of the structure. I think that the same thing will probably happen in private service, but as long as there are a certain number of people who make a living from disinclination, no matter how good or bad they say, they will follow us. At that time, for example, when ordinary people are asked to make an abstract discussion, they say, "I don't know whether my National Health Insurance card is good or bad." In addition, even if I listen to someone's explanation, I don't know who to believe, so I stop thinking. For example, let me give you a slightly different example of an AED. If you create an open data of people who are used to handling AEDs, and if there are people who use them in the neighborhood, why don't you make an effort to ask the person who is closest to them to help you? There is almost no opposition to this. However, if you try to create open data of vocational professionals in each area, such as lawyers, teachers, and doctors, because it is as convenient as they are, this is usually opposed. On the other hand, if you fall into a very specific story, you cannot agree with it unless it falls into a very familiar story that can be self-regarded by individuals. If you do not, you will be opposed for the time being in the wave of disaffection, and policy participation will be delayed. On the other hand, if you fall into a very specific story, about 5% of citizens will be self-regarded even if 80% of citizens are not involved, and stories that say this is good will not be disregarded. Unless you bring it into this structure, not only the country but also local governments will not be able to get rid of the fact that whatever they do is "not good."
I feel that kind of Issue every day. Almost all of Digital Agency's measures are the same, but medical care's DX without online qualification confirmation and Maina Health Insurance Card is impossible, but the reality is that no matter how much I try to abstract it, I can't win the debate over "why do you stop using paper health insurance cards?". If you take it to an extremely specific story about what is good if you have a Maina Health Insurance Card, everyone will follow you for the first time. DX will not progress unless you sell a set of ultra-abstract and ultra-micro. This is what I feel fiercely every day in Digital Agency. In that sense, it is because of DX that policies that are close to individuals can be made in detail. I am not talking about this for digitalization, but when the policy evaluation cycle is turned, how much room can be made for self-identification is an unavoidable Issue for the authorities who promote policies. In that sense, this logic tree has its own difficulties, but as mentioned in the latter half of the teachers' comments, this work is not done within the administration, but is considered by the public and private sectors. And without the aim of creating a logically correct tree, it is good if the work produces something as a result. With such a background, there is a background that I am attracted to this kind of thing.
The second point is that it is important for everyone to make it, but what is a little difficult is whether we can really do this kind of work at the site in area. To be honest, I don't know until I try it, but I think it would be better to make a standard form from the first level to the third level, and then make the fourth level and the fifth level based on this assumption.
Of course, if you have the ability to correct Level 1 to Level 3 by yourself, it would be fine if you could correct them as much as possible, but I think it is quite difficult. So, I tried to use them because they are said to be the standard, but I could get criticism that they cannot be used. Anyway, how about creating a standard form in the form of a reference for Level 1 to Level 3 of logic tree, and applying it to the measures of your town? Don't you notice something while doing this? However, if you consolidate Level 1 to Level 3, on the contrary, it may be depriving each area of room for creativity, so I feel that it is somewhat contradictory. As I said at the beginning, this approach is easy to do in fields where objective evaluation is easy. On the other hand, if you take up the theme of self-affirmation, which directly affects subjective satisfaction, I think it will be impossible in the field. So, I think it is necessary not to make a mistake in how to use it.
I think we need to carefully balance the ease of creating a tree, the ease of implementing measures, and the need to be careful not to devote too much policy resources to objective infrastructure development. I believe that God lives in the details of policies, and I have personally experienced cases in which the same subsidy or even the same demonstration projects has completely different effects even if the method is slightly different. Rather than the name of the subsidy or the target of the subsidy, I have experienced many cases in which the same subsidy has completely different effects due to detailed execution rules, the target expenses of the subsidy, the handling of revenue, whether the person in charge of the administration is stepping on the brakes, whether it is OK to do so, or whether it should be tried. So, what I am saying may be contradictory, but even if we were to consolidate the first to third levels, I think it would be good if it would be an opportunity for us to realize that this is important in the details while working on the fourth and fifth levels. In any case, I do not think that next fiscal year will go beyond the level of trying in several local government.
I think Mr. Koizumi was the first to tell us the first impression that many people feel, and I would like to hear your advice, such as "Be careful here" or "This is important", for the rest of your time.
Chairman Maeno: : Thank you very much.
Member: , I am very sorry to be so direct. Your explanation has deepened my understanding to a great extent. It is true that I have patterned the first, second, and third levels, but there is a premise that it does not have to be limited to this. I also think that there are cases in which it does not apply well depending on the area, so I think it is necessary to convey to local government the need for caution.
As Mr. Murakami said, even if it is the same measure, the evaluation will be quite different depending on how it is done. I was asking this point because I thought it would be a very important point in the future. For example, in terms of childcare, the third level includes "fulfilling the opportunities and qualities of childcare" and "creating a community where people can raise children with peace of mind." I was looking at this point because I thought it was a quite important point, but it is not always possible to achieve this if we run our businesses mechanically. The third level is connected to the fourth and fifth levels, that is, specific measures, but the results will be completely different depending on how the fifth level specific measures are implemented. I felt that there is potential in using it as a tool to motivate the field, in the way that we should think about how to run our businesses so that this outcome can be achieved, while conveying this to local government.
Chairman Maeno: Yes, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Nagumo.
Member Nagumo: I think it is better to firmly decide on the exit points when using this type of tool, or what the value is. In the OASIS training, the axis is to select eight areas, that is, what areas will have an impact and will be effective for the happiness of citizens. Since everyone is serious about dividing this into small pieces, I think I will add as many as I can. Instead, narrow down, that is, select the importance of this, and for that purpose, this is a reference, a dictionary that covers everything. If you use it to select the most important thing, I think there is a possibility that you can find an exit point in social impact. I think the point is to firmly convey the value of how to use it.
Chairman Maeno: : I'm not sure if it's correct to say that it's very interesting or interesting, but as a researcher of Well-Being, I really want to solve the theme myself, and I think that everything should lead to Well-Being, but I can't do that.
We are trying to connect these themes by having public local government, the servants of the whole. We are trying to solve a really difficult problem, and I think that very useful discussions are being held for that purpose. What I thought was irresponsible remarks as a participant, but if we ask generative AI to create it, I think it will connect us quite a bit.
As for the existing common sense, I felt it would be better to let generative AI make it.
This is just my opinion as a participant.
Chairman Maeno: Since we have received many good opinions, I would like to end the Q & A period with this, although it is a little early. Finally, I would like to say a few words as chairman.
I've already made quite a few remarks along the way, but I think it's really important.
Of course, public office goes beyond traditional ideas such as vertical division of departments and maintenance of boxes. Of course, what we have done so far is important, but in addition to that, Well-Being, which is very subjective, will require new ways of doing things. I feel that it is really significant that this new department called Digital Agency is leading this important budding period.
What was interesting to me was that Well-Being is a concept with a very high level of abstraction, and even though it is the concept that is farthest from you, when it comes to your own happiness, it is a concept that you can make into yourself.
If you continue to abstract the concept of Well-Being, in the end, you will be able to answer very intuitively, "Are you happy?" It is a very strange or interesting concept, so it is actually difficult to deal with it, but I think it is very significant that the people concerned are making efforts to address it and are creating the first plan. It is a very embryonic concept, and as Mr. Seki said, I think we have to do it in the very long term, but local government is also enjoying it, and we are accumulating it little by little, and the logic tree is becoming quite rich. I chose how many in the first year, but I felt that there is a possibility that I would like to choose Ukami next time. I renewed my intention that I would like to succeed by all means through the combined efforts of industry, government, academia, the private sector, and money. Thank you very much, everyone. Please say a few words to Mr. Murakami at the end.
Director-General: Yes, thank you very much for your time today. Although I did not mention your name individually, thank you very much for your work, Mr. Inoue, Mr. Satake, and Mr. Yamazaki. I look forward to working with you in the future.
In closing, I would like to say one unnecessary thing. I will not say it because it will cause trouble within the government. However, I believe that the story of "digital democracy" is largely a hidden theme.
This is too much of a personal opinion, so when I recommend it to people in each local government, I would like to limit myself to saying that there are more mechanical references, so why don't we try this kind of work, and please be careful about how to use it. However, if there are any interesting conclusions or moves, I would like to ask you to continue guidance or share discussions with us next year, including discussions from such a perspective.
Thank you very much to Mr. Maeno for carefully passing the meeting as the chairman every time. I really appreciate it, but I would like to ask you to keep working with us next year without worrying about it. I would like to make this my greeting.
Moderator (Nagura): Yes, thank you very much.
Thank you very much for your valuable opinions today. This concludes the holding of the review meeting for this fiscal year. As Murakami said, the timing and timing have not been decided, but we would like to continue to hold the meeting for the next fiscal year. Thank you very much for taking the time to attend today.