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My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group (7th)

Overview

  • Date and Time: Tuesday, November 29, 2022 (2022) from 5:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.
  • Location: Online
  • Agenda:
    1. Opening
    2. Proceedings
      1. Amendments to the My Number Law
    3. Adjournment

Materials

References

Minutes

Date

Tuesday, November 29, 2022 (2022), from 5:30 p.m. to 6:36 p.m.

Location

Online Meetings

Attendees

  • KONO Taro (Minister for Digital Transformation) * Absent
  • Koichi Akaishi (Chief Officer for Digital Policy)
  • Kazuto Ataka (Professor, Faculty of Environmental Information, Keio University / CSO, Yahoo Japan Corporation)
  • Naoki Ota (Representative Director of New Stories Co., Ltd.)
  • Yohei Saito (Director and CTO of Future Corporation)
  • Masahiko Shoji (Professor, Faculty of Sociology, Musashi University)
  • Shigeki Morinobu, Senior Researcher, Institute for Policy Studies, The Tokyo Foundation
  • Takashi Asanuma (Chief Officer of the Digital Agency) * Absent
  • Tatsuya Honmaru (Digital Agency CA)
  • Sota MIZUSHIMA (Digital Agency CPO)
  • Taiichiro Tomiyasu (Director-General of Digital Agency)
  • Masanori Kusunoki (Director-General of Digital Agency)
  • Hirotami KIKKAWA (Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Director-General of Local Administration Bureau)
  • UEHARA Tetsutaro (Professor, Faculty of Information Science and Engineering, Ritsumeikan University)
  • Otani Kazuko (Executive Officer, General Manager of Legal Department, The Japan Research Institute
  • Shuji Goto (President and Representative Director, area Information Technology Laboratory Co., Ltd.
  • Joji Shishido (Professor, Graduate School of Law and Politics, The University of Tokyo)
  • Akiko Sugawara (Managing Director and Head of Policy Planning, Keizai Doyukai)

Minutes

Mr. Kimura: Now that is on schedule, the 7th "My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group" will be held.
Thank you very much for taking the time to attend.

Mr. Kimura, Counsellor of Digital Agency, will be the MC this time as well. Nice to meet you.

This time, it is also held online and open to the public, including the press. We would like to report that you have already attended the meeting online.
Members of the Working Group and Special Members are requested to turn on the screen and to turn on the audio only when they speak. Other members of the Working Group who are listening online are requested to turn off the screen and mute the audio.

Today, we have invited expert members and observers from related ministries and agencies. Please note that Minister for Digital Transformation Kono will be absent today due to political affairs. We are sorry.

I have received a greeting from the Minister Kono, so I will read it for you.

Today, I would like to thank you for taking the time to participate in the 7th "My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group".

Last time, in order to expand the use of My Number, we asked you to consider information linkages from the institutional and system aspects so that information linkages can be started more quickly when information linkages between public authorities is newly necessary. I heard that there were opinions that it is necessary to review the legal provisions to enable rapid information linkages, and that it is necessary to ensure governance at that time.

Based on the discussions to date, Digital Agency and the relevant ministries and agencies have been considering a bill to revise the My Number law, which is scheduled to be submitted to the ordinary Diet session in 2023. Today, I would like to present an outline of the bill to revise the law. We would appreciate it if you could give us your frank opinions. Based on the opinions received from experts, we will proceed with the submission of the bill.

That's all.

Now, I would like to begin the proceedings.

First of all, Mr. Kusunoki will explain the materials, and we would like to hear the opinions of the members and special members.
Then, Director Kusunoki, nice to meet you.

Director Kusunoki: In regard to the . Today, based on our discussions so far, I would like to explain what we are considering at this point regarding the matters to be revised in the My Number Law.
Today, in addition to the partial revision of the My Number Law, etc., I would like to explain these two points in the second half, particularly regarding the expansion of the scope of information linkages, which is an independently used office work of local government.

We have been planning to submit a revision of the My Number Act to the next ordinary session of the Diet next year in Priority plan this June.

I would like to outline the partial revision of the My Number Act. Mainly on the left side is the expansion of the use of My Number, and on the right side is the expansion of the use of My Number Card. I will explain each of them separately.

First of all, with regard to expanding the scope of use of the My Number, we have already taken measures to allow the use of the My Number for management of national certification and other areas in the bonded area, but we will expand this to include qualifications other than bonded area. In addition, we will explain in order the administrative procedures for automobile registration and foreign residents.
Firstly, with regard to national certification and other locations, as is already the case with corporate-bonded visas, attached documents have been submitted to the respective license administrator until now, but we are considering that procedures can be carried out in Mynaportal without attached documents, or that the submission of death notifications will be unnecessary.

With regard to specific qualifications, we are considering using the so-called My Number to manage qualifications such as those described here in various fields, including administrative scriveners, bar examinations, teachers, etc., not limited to social customs. Since this is still being slightly adjusted, there is a possibility that the number will be increased or decreased in the future, but we are considering whether the My Number can be newly used for such qualifications.

In addition, there are some places where automobile registration has been realized using so-called Resident Register Code, but there are many cases where you do not know or do not remember the Resident Register Code. In fact, I think it was common to obtain a copy of the certificate of residence and register with MOTAS, etc. In the future, we will make it possible to easily inquire about your address using Juki Net by sending and receiving your My Number after applying using My Number Card. In this way, it will be possible to omit the attachment documents at the time of procedures such as change of address.

In addition, I would like to ask about the administrative work related to foreign nationals residing in Japan. In particular, for procedures such as renewal, in the past, we used to obtain a taxation certificate from public authorities and apply for residence, but in the future, by providing your My Number, Immigration Bureau will be able to reduce the number of attached documents by making an information inquiry to public authorities.

With regard to the expansion of the scope of use of the My Number for other administrative work, the Cabinet Secretariat, National Personnel Authority, Ministry of Defense, and others are considering expanding the scope of use of the My Number for administrative work related to allowances for national government employees, Disaster Condolence Grants for the Bereaved for the Cabinet Office, pension payments for Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, pensions for Diet members, and seafarers for the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.

In addition, I would like to ask about the review of law regulations for faster information linkages, which has been discussed. It has taken nearly two years to revise the law and renew the system. One is to review Table 2 and make information linkages possible and faster by providing regulations in lower law. In addition, regarding Table 1, although it will be provided in the law as before, it will be possible to use the My Number if the work is equivalent to the work stipulated by law.

For example, public assistance for Japanese nationals is provided for in law, but public assistance for foreign nationals in Japan is provided for in regulation, and although there have been some inconveniences in the past, when confirming the income of the previous fiscal year of a person who has moved in, we will make it possible to use information linkages properly by making it possible to read it as equivalent affairs.

There have been discussions on whether Appended Table 1 can be written in a larger format. However, if the scope of use of Appended Table 1 is newly expanded, there will be a burden of requiring the people to submit their My Number. Therefore, we believe that it is appropriate to continue to legislate it, and we will continue to maintain the Appended Table.

In addition, even if Exhibit 2 becomes a lower law, it will basically be a information linkages within the scope of services already provided in Exhibit 1 and equivalent services, so I believe that a certain level of discipline will work. In addition, although there have been discussions on follow-up monitoring and other matters from the viewpoint of ensuring governance, I believe that it is necessary to consider how to appropriately work governance in such a way that the Government of Japan firmly reports on the matter.

In addition, in order to promote Registration of public money receiving account, more than 2000 people have already registered public fund receiving account via Mynaportal, but there are many people, including elderly people, who find it difficult to register in smartphone, and there are examples where the national government has already registered various bank accounts to which funds are transferred. In such cases, we are considering whether we can promote Registration of public money receiving account as a special system for registration via public authorities by incorporating a mechanism in which we send a postal item in the form of a reply if you have any objections, and register those who have not had any objections for a certain period of time.

In addition, since 2024, for Japanese nationals living overseas, the My Number and family registry have been linked so that they can continue to use the My Number Card when they move out of Japan. However, there was a need to temporarily return to Japan when a new My Number was issued or when it was renewed at the timing of five or ten years, and to receive the Issue of the card at the municipality of the registered domicile. We are considering a mechanism to significantly reduce the burden of card acquisition, etc. on Japanese nationals moving out of Japan by allowing them to receive the Issue of the card not only at the municipality of the registered domicile but also at overseas diplomatic missions.

In addition, regarding a partial review of the face of the ticket, at the Minor Working two years ago, it was discussed that Furigana should be properly registered in family registry. In the future, when Furigana is notarized in such a way, the notarized Furigana will be written next to the Kanji of My Number Card. At the same time, we have received opinions that when My Number Card is presented overseas, we would like it to be written in the alphabet, and we would like it to be written in the Christian era. Therefore, we are considering a review of the face of the ticket to enable people who wish to write their names in the Roman alphabet and their Christian era dates of birth in the Postscript column of My Number Card.

Next, I would like to talk about the expansion of the scope of information linkages for local government's independent use of office work. As I introduced last time, for example, there is an example of local government's Marriage and New Life Support Project, which is an independent measure of local government and seems to be part of social security in a broad sense. At this time, there was an example that it was difficult to make a information linkages because it was not listed in the attached table under the Number Act because it was Akita's own office work. In the case of this Marriage and New Life Support Project, for example, when a husband and wife live in Akita, there are many cases in which one of the husband and wife moves in from another local government, and in that case, information linkages is required for other organizations of the moving source to confirm the income limit.

We are considering amending the information linkages Rules so that even if it is not necessarily clear whether or not the affairs for the independent use of local public entities are equivalent to the affairs listed in the attached table, if the Protection Committee approves, Personal Information Protection Commission can be carried out.

This is not the My Number Act itself, but there is a commonality in the expansion of information linkages, so I explained it to you.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: , thank you very much.

I would like to hear the opinions of members and special members in relation to the content of the materials I explained. I will appoint you, so please let me know by the show of hands function if you have any comments. Also, I would like to ask you to make a brief statement in about 3 minutes. Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Ohtani.

Ohtani Special Member: My name is Ohtani. Thank you for your explanation.

In particular, I would like to confirm the point of the law Amendment. I believe it was around page 11 in the materials, but Appendix 1 will clarify the purpose as before, and Appendix 2 will be stipulated in the lower law. It is true that the content of Appendix 2 is too detailed and difficult to understand, and there are concerns about the occurrence of errors in some cases, and I think there are points where flexibility is insufficient, so I recognize that it is naturally necessary to revise that part. However, Appendix 2 is also a tool that allows a viewer, for example, a local local government or a person in charge of legislation, to easily understand the set of information inquirer and information provider.

In addition, information linkages, I believe that the set of inquirers and providers in Appendix 2 has a certain meaning in terms of validation whether or not the provision of information was appropriate. In the future, I believe that the Secretariat will continue to discuss with various parties what kind of lower law the set of inquirers and providers will be specified in and how it will be operated in a manner that the governance so far will not deteriorate. Please tell us part of this. Thank you.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Next, Mr. Ohta, nice to meet you.

Ohta Member: I'm Ohta . I think the content has already been solidified, so I think it would be good to make sure that the output and outcome of the revision of the law are properly conveyed. First of all, regarding page 11, which you are showing now, if we revise the law as an output on the right side, it would be better to briefly show how much the total of two years, one year for the revision of the law and one year for the system improvement on the left side, will be shortened. Probably, the system improvement will not be shortened, so I think it would be better to clearly state the revision of the law.

As a result, as an outcome, I think information linkages will be able to be made earlier, and I think information linkages is doing millions of information linkages per month now, but I don't mind if it is not in this document, but I think the root of why we are making this kind of legal amendment is to make sure that the outcome of the faster and more frequent relocation is always shown properly. I would like to ask you to do so.

As for the output on page 7, I am interested in how many people are using the qualifications, as it was in the old materials. For example, there are more than 1 million barbers and I think there are 500,000 to 1 million hairdressers. I think it is better to make it so that such people can understand it. If it is made in this way, for example, why hazardous materials engineer are not included, I think it is more than 1 million people, so I think it is better to properly convey how many people will be made more convenient by the revision.

Last but not least, I think the process is also important, so before that, on page 5, when I was an assistant, I remember that I received three explanations many times about the scope of use of the My Number: tax, social security, and disaster. The small Social Security and Tax Number Outline (2011), which is written at the bottom, is a quite important policy, I think. If you do not write down how the scope of use is written here and how it was examined as a process in an easy-to-understand manner, it will not be conveyed that the scope of use was expanded without knowing well, so I think it is better to keep a record of the perspective from which the scope of use was expanded as a process.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: , please.

Goto Special Member: I'm Goto. Thank you very much.

With regard to the materials you explained, in particular, I would like to express my opinions on the use of My Number, the position of the Appended Table of the Number Act, and the independent use of local government.

First of all, regarding Appendix 1 of the current Number Act, the utilization of three fields, that is, the fields of social security, tax, and disaster response, is arranged as a consolidation. In addition to statutory office work, I think that even when local government uses it independently, it is arranged in the form of what falls under these three fields. Among the objects discussed this time, I thought that various treatments of things that do not fall under these three fields or that are difficult to fall under them are raised. In particular, in local government, I think that there are many such things due to the nature of organization, which is engaged in office work closely related to the lives of residents in various ways. In that sense, I think that once again, the arrangement and classification of positioning should be discussed and examined in the direction of expanding the concept of things that do not fall under these three fields.

I understand that there were various concerns among the people of design about the number system, and while taking these into consideration, we conducted careful consideration even though we knew at the time that using the My Number would be easier and more convenient. In light of this, I believe that it is essential to indicate the necessity of using the number in each specific field and situation and to obtain the understanding of the people about the use of the number, rather than expanding the use of the number only because it would be more convenient.

Based on this premise, among the specific arrangements that have grounds in law, I would like to clarify the concept by arranging the positioning of affairs other than the three fields, such as social security, as an example by expanding Tables 1 and 2, or by applying mutatis mutandis the positioning of affairs other than the three fields to the original affairs of local government.

In addition, I believe that the roles of Personal Information Protection Commission, which is the so-called Article 3 Committee, are to monitor the appropriate operation of the system, order corrective measures, and explain the situation to the National Assembly. In that sense, I feel a little uncomfortable that the addition of individual and specific affairs of municipalities is to be done under the rules of the Committee. I thought it would be desirable to do so under the rules of Digital Agency, which has jurisdiction over the Number Act.

My second question is about the My Number Card ticket. It is on page 14, but I think this is a very big problem. In particular, I don't know how to use furigana in family registry or how to confirm it with the people, so I don't know much about it, but I would like you to explain it properly somewhere.

In addition, since credit cards are so widely used, if furigana is to be written on the face of the card, I am concerned that a considerable number of people will rush to the municipalities to complete the procedure to add it to the card. In this regard, if rough schedule and specific discussions with local government are carried out carefully, it will reduce the burden on the residents and avoid confusion in local government.

Lastly, I would like to ask about the promotion of Registration of public money receiving account. I have a feeling that it is not good to register if there is no response after notification. On this point, I would like to hear the opinions of other members. In addition to registration, there are many administrative work such as account changes at the local government site. I thought that the part related to such changes could be included in the subject of consideration.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: .

Then, Director Kusunoki, please.

Director Kusunoki: In regard to the , in the future, there are cases where it is done by ministerial ordinance when it is a lower law, but it is necessary for appropriate consultations to be conducted within the relevant ministries and agencies.

On the other hand, in some cases, the period for changes will change to a certain extent, including the amount of work in the case of a Cabinet Order, so going forward, while clarifying the requirements to be met, we will discuss what kind of subordinate law is appropriate to decide in close cooperation with the relevant ministries and agencies.

Next, in regard to what Mr. Ota said, it is as you said that the outputs and outcomes should be easy to understand. For example, I would like to firmly work on how many people have the relevant qualifications in our policy public relations going forward.

In addition, it is difficult to generalize how much it will be shortened from two years to a few months because it depends on the way of working. However, I believe it will be shortened by more than half to a few months. In this regard, we have been discussing the overall architecture until last time, but I believe it will also be related to how to make the entire system touch on agile, including the so-called data sharing platform study.

In addition, with regard to the process, the My Number Law itself has been revised several times, so we will firmly publicize how the scope of use has been expanded in such a way that it will be recorded.

Finally, Dr. Goto expressed his opinion on the utilization of the My Number and the positioning of the attached table, in particular, the arrangement of the newly added administrative work. Basically, it is positioned as the convenience of the people and the efficiency of the administration, but I would like to consider how to explain it so that it can be widely understood while receiving your guidance.

In particular, in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, it has been said that such a thing cannot be done even if it is digital. On the other hand, there are various opinions. Therefore, I would like to obtain your understanding while taking into account various opinions such as whether IT has become a matter of course that various administrative procedures can be completed digitally to a certain extent and proceed smoothly, and whether the government is doing so properly.

In addition, there was a concern about how to confirm the use of furigana at the counter. Various discussions are under way at the Ministry of Justice, so although it is difficult for us to explain it here today, I believe that the counter in local government should not be crowded due to this, and that it is necessary to communicate with local government in a thorough and careful manner.

Finally, there are quite a few account changes in local government, and we received opinions that we should carefully consider not only digitalization but also changes. It is a big Issue how to change not only account changes but also various renewal procedures such as moving one top, but various considerations such as one stop service are also being made separately, so we would like to find a more efficient method in a form other than this opt-out.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: .

Next, Mr. Sugawara, please.

Special Member: First of all, I would like to comment on the expansion of use.

First of all, I believe there are more than 300 in national certification in total, so I believe that we should further expand the area so that it can be used promptly based on the status of use of each area.

In addition, in terms of expanding the use of private sector, I feel that the approach is still shallow. We, economic organizations in private sector, must make more specific proposals, but there is a list of the use of national public servants and Diet members, and I believe that in-depth consideration of how private sector can be used will become more important.

In that sense, you mentioned the relationship between public assistance services for foreign nationals and benefit, and I believe that the integration of residence cards and My Number Card, which we have been discussing before, should be dealt with urgently.

This is an twenty twenty-five in the Action Plan, but recently, there have been moves within the Government regarding the policy of accepting foreign nationals, such as the establishment of an expert council to review the systems for specified skills and technical intern training. In terms of the development of the foundation for a multicultural society for foreign nationals, the integration of My Number Card and residence cards is an important infrastructure and essential, so it is important to accelerate it.

Finally, in the discussion on the revision of the law, you explained Appendix 1 and Appendix 2. I believe that you coordinated with the Legislative Bureau and others after the discussion at the previous meeting, but I thought that Appendix 1 would be a high hurdle. I think that it is important to ensure governance by properly deliberating and reporting in the Diet because it deals with a specific personal data, etc., but I am somewhat concerned about whether it will be possible to respond in a prompt manner when expanding the use of digital society in various ways using the current method.

First of all, I think it is necessary to rotate the PDCA cycle in line with the actual situation through this law, so I think it is necessary to check how well the system works. In digital society, I think it is possible to respond quickly if regulation and systems are strengthened after the fact and made as free as possible in advance. While continuing to hold such a perspective, I would like to monitor the flow of the new law revision.

Councilor Kimura: Next, Mr. Uehara, please.

UEHARA Special Member: I am UEHARA from Ritsumeikan University. I would like to speak from a slightly different perspective than Mr. Sugawara's earlier opinion. It is also about the expansion of the scope of use.

As I have mentioned several times, it is difficult to talk about it no matter how many times I listen to it. What seems to be unclear is the number system called My Number. In other words, everyone is assigned a unique number, and the number is highly unchangeable. In addition, the number is used to identify the person in the course of business. This issue has been discussed in various ways since the Basic Residential Registers Network System was created. As a result, it has been decided to limit the number to three fields.

In terms of the global so-called national ID system, it is a strange model that is a little close to the sectarian model, but it is a little different, but I understand that it has settled on such a model. I believe that the scope of use of this model will gradually be expanded to a so-called flat model, and I believe that the convenience and risk of this model are being discussed in various places. Therefore, in expanding the use of this model, it is necessary to explain to the people why it was limited to three fields before and why it was expanded this time.

In particular, what I am a little concerned about is that there is a Resident Register Code for assigning a so-called number to the people, and there is also a method of assigning a serial number on top of the JPKI, which uses a combination of numbers with different characteristics, such as different management, and slightly different volatility and permanence. For the purpose of identifying the person, the JPKI is sufficient, but I understand that it is necessary to use the My Number when collecting information on the resident base, such as the address, from another database, particularly through Juki Net, via the Resident Register Code. However, I feel that it is better to discuss a little bit about whether or not the system will really be used.

As I have stated many times, I believe that the JPKI mechanism for identifying the person using the My Number Card and the use of the so-called My Number, which is extremely difficult to change, should have been originally discussed separately. Therefore, I would like you to continue to explain the design based on that. In particular, I believe that the restriction of Appended Table 1 is one of the restraints, but I would like you not to forget that the reason why the restraint is necessary is because it is an answer to the risk of name-based aggregation, which has been a concern, and the risk that all the information of the people will be centrally managed.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: .

Now, I would like to hear Director Kusunoki's comments.

Director Kusunoki: In regard to the , Mr. Sugawara suggested that we consider the use of private sector more. Regarding the use of cards rather than numbers, the diffusion rate has finally reached more than 50%, and we believe that an environment is being created in which it is easier for My Number Card to consider services based on the premise that they have private sector. Therefore, we would like to consider the expansion of the use of My Number Card in private sector not only in the scope that will directly lead to the revision of the My Number Law today, but also in the future.

In particular, you talked about the integration of residence cards, which has already been mentioned in Priority plan, and of course the Government of Japan will work on this issue. However, whether or not to include the issue in the revision of the My Number Act will be decided based on a comprehensive consideration of various circumstances.

While Appendix 1 remains, I believe that we must show whether we can respond in terms of speed as an outcome from now on. In this regard, it will be a set of not only the issue of the system but also how much flexibility can be increased in the system as a whole, including the architecture. Therefore, we would like to make the infrastructure more responsive to the needs of the world.

Subsequently, Dr. Uehara pointed out that it is necessary to explain to the people whether the current model is close to the so-called sectarian model but is gradually becoming more flat. I believe that it is necessary to provide a really thorough explanation on this point.

In particular, in some countries, the number can be used widely in private sector. However, in Japan, the number is limited to administrative operation, and the scope of use is clearly specified in Appendix 1, and is determined through a democratic process. Therefore, in the process of actually submitting the bill to the Diet, I believe that the ruling and opposition parties will ask questions about this. Therefore, we will consider providing a thorough and more detailed explanation about this. I would like to ask for your thorough guidance.

In addition, it has been pointed out that it is sufficient to identify the person at JPKI, and I expect that after the digital completion of various procedures, everyone will be able to hold the card and make various identifications based on the My Number Card.

On the other hand, in order to successfully circulate My Numbers without using My Numbers, including the linking mechanism and the ideal way of management, there are several Issue and technical aspects, so I think it is necessary to constantly continue to consider a mechanism with a lower privacy impact while carefully improving each one. In particular, when considering cooperation with private sector, I think it is a part that can change the scope of API opening and the scope of use by considering a mechanism with a smaller privacy impact. Therefore, I would like to firmly work on this matter, not limited to this revision of the law.

Councilor Kimura: .

Next, Mr. Shoji, please.

Shoji, Member: I would like to say a few words on pages 12 and 14.

First of all, regarding the promotion of Registration of public money receiving account on page 12. I understand that you want to promote the registration of receiving accounts, but I think it will be controversial as a way to proceed. If anything, I am concerned that it may give the impression that it has been registered without permission. Although it is supposed to be notified in advance, there are many people who do not know whether they have received a notification card for their My Number, and there are people around me, so I think it is better to be careful about registering if there is no response of disapproval after notification. I personally think it is better not to do so.

When doing this, even if the public authorities that provides benefits, etc. has account information, what will you do if there are multiple accounts? I also use different accounts such as the salary receipt account and other accounts, so I think it is necessary to listen carefully to requests such as I want to use this account instead of that one. I completely agree that I want to increase the number of account registrations, but I think it is better to do it very carefully.

Next, I would like to review part of the ticket on page 14. I am talking about writing the birthday in the Western calendar, but if you think about it carefully, the birthday in the Japanese calendar is already written. If you look at it more closely, the expiration date is written in the Western calendar next to it. If so, I think it would be better to unify the birthdays in the Western calendar. Of course, I am saying this after understanding that it has been decided to use double notation in the Digital Government Action Plan, but in terms of convenience, my impression is that if the Western calendar is used, there will be one less work.

Also, I was a little concerned about allowing people who wish to write their dates of birth in the Roman alphabet and the Christian era on their My Number Card. People who want to do so will do so, but this will be time-consuming and complicated. I think it would be less confusing for all people to write it. We are still at the stage of discussing the main policy, and we may not have worked out how to actually proceed with the writing on the card, but considering the actual introduction, I think it would be better to include it not for people who wish to write it but for all people.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Next, Mr. Saito, nice to meet you.

SAITO Member: , I would like to make three points.

First of all, regarding the perspective of the review of information linkages on page 11, I think that how to handle Appendix 1 and Appendix 2 is to create a certain relaxation in the form of equivalent business while keeping Appendix 1 as a law, and to reduce Appendix 2 to a lower law. As you have pointed out, I thought that it would be good to make a proposal or a back testing this time.

During the three years of the COVID-19 pandemic, I believe that there were some cases in which we were able to provide speedy support to the people, and some cases in which we were unable to do so. I believe that there are two reasons why we were unable to do so, either from the perspective of the law or from the perspective of the system architecture. In order to improve both of these aspects this time, first of all, based on the treatment of Appended Table 1 and Appended Table 2, there is a certain degree to which we have been able to provide various types of support in the past and respond to them. Probably, from the perspective of the people, it will be easier to understand that by doing this much, this kind of support will be faster because we will revise the law, and on the other hand, by changing the system architecture, this kind of support will be formed.

Whether it is the past three years or the past five years, I believe it is very effective to make an evaluation from the perspective of back testing.

Also, on page 13, with regard to Japanese nationals living overseas, I believe there was discussion at the Maina WG two years ago about how to treat Japanese nationals born overseas, and I believe there was talk that it would be good to establish a so-called virtual local government and link it to it. This time, I believe it is Registered Domicile, so from the perspective of people born in Japan who have moved overseas, it may be covered by this, but I think it would be good to consider how to treat people born overseas together.

Also, regarding the face of the card on page 14. Frankly speaking, when I looked at the future image on the right, I had the impression that it was very disappointing. I believe that there have been discussions so far about the legislation of furigana and yomigana, and the creation of an identity that can be used overseas. In addition, I believe that there are many other things that still remain in E-Certificate. For example, the expiration date of Issue must be handwritten, the My Number must be written on the back, there must be QR codes, and they must be hidden in a case. Although it may not be at the timing of this revision of the law, I would like to ask for radical improvement or review of the card.

That's all from me.

Councilor Kimura: .

Director Kusunoki: In regard to the pointed out that the opt-out registration in public fund receiving account may be a little rough, and in particular, he pointed out what to do when multiple different accounts are registered in different public service. This is an important point, and I think that it is necessary to carefully consider the handling of cases in which one's designated account is overwritten or multiple accounts are registered in different accounts.

In public service, the number of accounts that have already been transferred is quite limited, but I believe that we must consider how to avoid confusion in terms of the possibility of having both accounts and the order in which they should be registered. In the first place, I do not believe that it should be a form that surprises the residents, so I will make sure that this does not happen.

In addition, with regard to the birthday of the Japanese calendar on page 14, Mr. Saito also pointed out that this is the image of the future, but I believe that a fundamental review must be considered at some point. On the other hand, while we aim to have all Japanese citizens hold their My Number for the current fiscal year, it is difficult due to the timing of the revision of the My Number Card Act, but in this regard, for example, the expiration date of the My Number is 10 years, so I believe that it will be necessary to conduct a more fundamental review at an appropriate time, including the timing of the change of those who took the My Number for the first time.

In addition, as Mr. Saito said, I would like to try a back testing. The very establishment of the Digital Agency was based on the fact that it was not possible to provide benefits promptly at the beginning of the novel coronavirus pandemic. Therefore, I am always thinking with my hand on my heart about whether a series of institutional reforms could have been carried out smoothly amid the novel coronavirus pandemic.

Fortunately, not only the revision of the Special Public Benefits Act, but also the previous revision of the digital reform Act, etc., including the Special Public Benefits Act, if something like the novel coronavirus pandemic occurs, some systems are still being worked on, but reforms are currently being advanced that will be able to significantly overcome in the event of something like this occurring after the twenty twenty-five. For example, I believe that the next crisis will not necessarily be limited to a pandemic, but may include various threats such as an earthquake, and in terms of being able to respond to such various threats, even though we are becoming able to respond to the novel coronavirus, I believe that there is still much work to be done, and I believe that the expansion of the scope of use under the revision of the My Number Act is part of such consideration.

In addition, with regard to the treatment of Japanese nationals living overseas, in particular those born overseas, although this has not been fully addressed and it was difficult to include this in the revision of the law, we recognize that My Number Card is an extremely important Issue in terms of what kind of services we can provide to Japanese nationals living overseas, particularly since 2024, and we will continue to make steady efforts going forward.

Councilor Kimura: Your time is approaching, but Mr. Ataka, please.

Member of Ataka: I'm Ataka . I think this is fine for expanding these four developments.

What I am a little concerned about is the road map for the next step, or how it will be expanded. I would be happy if it were a little clearer. So, I would like to talk about the future of the revision of the law. I think it is difficult to say anything more than four or five here.

One is the individual development, which has been repeatedly made by multiple members. Actually, I think it is fair and square, but I would like to have a guideline that is somewhat easy to understand, although I cannot say it is clear. In particular, I have always thought that it is quite important to clarify a certain type of OB zone in utilization. This is the world that Mr. Kusunoki knows the most about, but I think it is probably better to be quite clear that parts that are involved in the vulnerability of the person, such as income, welfare, physical inconveniences, religion, origin, and other things, are not included.

Second, there was a little talk about API, but there are still a lot of people who want to get a copy of their My Number. The only place where you can write the number and send it is Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications. I already have several events every week that I don't understand. Originally, if you use API to include your address and name, it will be over. It is very important to create a world where there is no exchange of paper of that kind. It will be a welcome to the people if you do it right away. I think it would be better to include this in the roadmap at an early stage.

Third, I think it is better to clearly put the changes that will be created as indicators, and I think that is connected with what Mr. Ohta said earlier. There is value in the fact that it can't be helped if you can log in with your ID and password, but as a result, I think that work will be automated and some kind of Issue solution will occur, so if you don't clearly put the changes that will be created as evaluation indicators, I think that this is really Digital Agency, or rather Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications work, and there will be a large number of jobs of this type, so I wonder if something can be put into it. Therefore, I really want to have a social design function in terms of some kind of Issue solution, and I think that it is good to include something in the roadmap of Maina. That is my third point.

The fourth point is that I have already heard about it in the preliminary explanation, and I am sorry to say the same thing over and over again, but I think that it is inevitable to separate the unit from the house and address and connect them by biometric authentication. In a society that is now becoming a nomad, it is not a special case of numbering when the address is not decided. Basically, it is a set of biometric authentication that are linked to people so that numbering can be done regardless of the address. I think that a drastic reform will be considered in 10 years, but I think it is better to clearly state that this is a problem from the beginning.

Finally, since I am a person related to Digital disaster risk management, it may sound a little position-talkative, but when something happens, as Director Kusunoki mentioned earlier, in the event of a disaster, we have to rescue the person, so when we rescue a person buried somewhere, it is not enough to connect from there. I think it is essential to advance cooperation in advance of a disaster as much as possible, and to make it possible to use it only in such a case, even if it cannot be used normally.

I can't say for certain that something like the Edo epicentral earthquake, in which the Nankai Trough occurred twice in just one year, like at the end of the Edo period, will never occur. In this country, there are things that have occurred in just two years. Because we don't know when they will come, it's actually better to do this as soon as possible. In order to avoid people not being able to be helped because they don't notice that they can be helped, it is very important to link private sector IDs and My Numbers so that they can be used only when the country or local governments is in such a situation, even though they can't usually be used.

More than once.

Councilor Kimura: time has come, please give us a short comment.

Director Kusunoki: In regard to the Roadmap and other matters, I am focusing my explanation on the content of the legal revision. Of course, we need to consider a larger grand design. Here, there is also a review of Priority plan toward next summer, so I would appreciate it very much if you could discuss it at an appropriate timing.

In addition, with regard to the scope of use of numbers, I believe that we must clarify which numbers will be used and which will not as we deepen our discussions, so I would like to be able to clearly express this in words.

In addition, there are many issues of identity in Issue, such as whether or not it can be separated from houses and addresses. In the world of tax payments, donation mechanisms such as hometown tax payments have already been introduced, but in the end, this will be linked to voting rights in local elections. Therefore, I believe that it is necessary to deepen the national debate on this issue, not only at the Numbers Act but also at the constitutional level.

With regard to disaster risk management, disaster response has been included in the scope of use of the My Number Act from the beginning, and I believe that what should be done based on this is an extremely important perspective, so we will consider what should be addressed while continuing discussions with the relevant ministries and agencies.

Councilor Kimura: Then, since the time has passed, I will break it off here.

Chief investigator Chief Officer for Digital Policy Akaishi, do you have any comments?

Chief Officer for Digital Policy Akaishi: I'm Akaishi . Thank you very much for your time today.

What you are saying is all true, and I would like to say that we are going to show a long-term roadmap and do something specific about the expansion of the use of My Number, but if it deviates too much from the awareness of the people today, it will be a problem. However, I would like to advance as wide a range of things as possible under various restrictions. This is only a milestone, so based on your opinions, I would like to continue to work steadily on what cannot be reflected next year, so I would like to ask for your cooperation.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: .

That's all for today's agenda.

The materials and minutes of the Working Group will be disclosed on the Digital Agency website. The secretariat will contact you to confirm the minutes at a later date. Thank you.

In addition, after the meeting today, we will hold a press briefing on the plenary session at the Secretariat.

With that, I would like to conclude today's 7th Maina WG. Thank you very much, everyone.