My Number System and national and local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Group (6th)

Overview

Date and Time: Wednesday, October 5, 2022 (2022), from 13:00 to 14:30
Location: Online
Agenda:
1. Opening
2. Proceedings
  1. Consideration of Total Design and Revision of the My Number Law to Realize a User-oriented public service
3. Adjournment

Materials

References

Reference: Holding of My Number System and National and Local Digital infrastructure Drastic Improvement Working Groups (PDF / 123 kb)

Minutes

Date

Wednesday, October 5, 2022 (2022), from 1:00 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.

Location

Online Meetings

Attendees

TARO KONO Minister for Digital Transformation * Absence
Koichi Akaishi Chief Officer for Digital Policy
Kazuto Ataka, Professor, Faculty of Environment and Information Science, Keio University / CSO, Yahoo Japan Corporation * Absent
Naoki Ota, Representative Director of New Stories Co., Ltd.
Yohei Saito Director and CTO of Future Corporation
Masahiko Shoji, Professor, Faculty of Sociology, Musashi University
Shigeki Morinobu, Senior Researcher, Institute for Policy Studies, Tokyo Foundation
Hisashi Asanuma Chief Officer of the Digital Agency
Hiroshi Ezaki Digital Agency CA * Absence
Sota Mizushima Digital Agency CPO
Taiichiro Tomiyasu, Director-General of Digital Agency * Absent
Masanori KUSUNOKI, Director-General Digital Agency
Kazuhiko Mihashi Deputy Director-General of the Information and Communications Policy Bureau of Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications
Tetsutaro Uehara Professor, Faculty of Information Science and Engineering, Ritsumeikan University
Kazuko Otani Executive Officer, General Manager of Legal Department, Japan Research
Seiji Goto President and Representative Director, area Institute of Information Technology
Tsunehisa Shishido, Professor, Graduate School of Law and Politics
Akiko Sugawara, Managing Director and Head of Policy, Keizai Doyukai

Minutes

Councilor Kimura: As it has been scheduled, the 6th Maina WG will be held from now on. Thank you very much for taking the time to participate.

Mr. Kimura, Counsellor of Digital Agency, will be the MC this time as well. Nice to meet you.

It will be held online and will be open to the public, including media representatives. We would like to inform you that you have already attended the meeting online.

Members of this working group and special members are requested to turn on the screen, and the audio is requested to be turned on only when speaking. For other online audience members, the screen is requested to be turned off and the audio is requested to be muted.

Today, expert members and observers from relevant ministries and agencies are attending.

In addition, Minister Kono will be absent today due to government affairs. I have received a greeting from Minister for Digital Transformation Kono, so I will read it on my behalf.

Today, I would like to thank you for taking the time to participate in the 6th "Working Group on Drastic Improvement of My Number System, National and Local Digital infrastructure".

In the previous survey, we received opinions that the utilization of My Number should be promoted regardless of the three fields in order to develop environments in which appropriate support can be received promptly. In order to build a society that is convenient for the people through digitalization, I think that more drastic consideration is necessary for the expansion of the use of My Number System.

To be specific, we would like to ask you to consider the scope of the public service from the institutional aspect so that the information linkages can be started more quickly when a new information linkages between public authorities is necessary due to the provision of a new information linkages.

In addition, based on the discussions so far, we would like to ask you to consider the method of public service from the system side so that information linkages between public authorities can be implemented more efficiently when cooperating information linkages are in the same system. We would appreciate if you could give us your positive and candid opinions on the My Number Law and system safety measures suitable for digital society.

I would like to ask all the experts to have a lively discussion today.

That's all.

Let's get down to business.

First of all, Mr. Kusunoki will explain the agenda in the first half of the document, and we would like to hear the opinions of the members and special members. Regarding the agenda in the second half, Mr. Kusunoki will explain it later, and we would like to hear your opinions.

Then, Director Kusunoki, please explain.

Director Kusunoki: , I would like to start the first half with a discussion of systems and future considerations.

Firstly, regarding the Issue Recognition and the current measures, of course, the Working Group is considering twenty twenty-five as the immediate target for smartphone, such as "completing procedures in public service in 60 seconds," "launching a private sector in seven days," and "costs comparable to those in implementation."

For this reason, at the Cabinet decision in June this year, it was decided to realize a componentized, loosely-coupled, and highly flexible architecture for the system, and to this end, to implement the development of law, including the submission of necessary bills, including the revision of the My Number Law, at the ordinary Diet session next year.

As I mentioned last time, we will update the information linkages method to enable the rapid implementation of new and necessary inter-agency information linkages. In addition, we will enable the efficient implementation of inter-agency information linkages within the same system. We are thinking of further promoting public authorities's backyard cooperation.

Currently, when establishing the My Number Law and the Information Provision Network System, we are taking sufficient measures under the current system, including distributed management, in light of concerns about the number system at the time of legislation and the summary of the Juki Net Supreme Court ruling. In considering the scope and method of the information linkages, it is important to fully take into account these factors, and it is necessary to proceed on the premise of ensuring personal data protection.

Over the past few years, there have been major environmental changes in the scope of information linkages, particularly in the course of its operation in conjunction with My Number System following the Juki Net Supreme Court ruling. One is that Specific Personal Information Protection Commission was initially established with the My Number Law, and since then it has been designated as "Specific personal data" due to the revision of the Personal Information Protection Commission Protection Act, and it is currently operating as a. In this context, with regard to cooperation in My Number, Specific personal data Protection Evaluation has been properly implemented, and recently, through the Act on the Formation and Improvement of digital society, the review of the personal data Protection Law has been carried out to reorganize a proper and consistent system of the personal data Protection Law for the national government, local governments, and private sector, which was called the so-called 2000 problem, and common rules have been established nationwide.

In addition, we have been operating Mynaportal since 2017, and it has been nearly five years since we started to operate a service that allows us to check what kind of cooperation has actually been made through the "communication history."

On the other hand, in order to implement information linkages as a Issue, it is necessary to newly write in the so-called Appendix 2 at present, or if the 12-digit number of the My Number is used, the so-called Appendix 1 will be rewritten. If these are to be passed through the ordinary session, the revision projects will be identified by around summer, and it took about one year to be promulgated and enforced after law revision work, Cabinet decisions, and Diet deliberations. However, it will take nearly two years to start information linkages after revision of the ordinance of the competent ministry and system development around summer. The attached table itself is complex, but since the law will be revised, there will be a considerable technical work of writing down the differences properly, which is called a revised text, and there are parts where mistakes are easily made.

For example, in practice, the so-called special benefit is a budgetary measure, not a legislative one, but it is necessary to grasp the past benefit performance, etc., when selecting the beneficiaries. However, it is a budgetary measure, not a legislative measure, so if you make an inquiry about the past benefit performance to the organization before moving in after moving in, and this data is not written in the attached table, if you try to take measures by legislation, if you draw a line table of coordination with each ministry, law revision work, Diet deliberations, ministerial ordinance revision, and system improvement, if the measures are decided this spring, the information linkages will be established no later than the summer of 2023. I think it is necessary to consider how to speed up these measures.

In addition, I have started to look for specific cases in which information linkages was difficult due to local government's own administrative work. For example, in Akita city, in order to support newly married couples who are starting a new life due to marriage, there are cases in which information linkages is difficult for matters that do not conform to the so-called administrative work listed in the attached table, such as cases in which cooperation is attempted between local tax information and family registry information to subsidize part of the purchase, construction, renovation, and moving costs of a new home. Even if the contents are similar to those included in social security in a broad sense, it is actually difficult to cooperate when there is no equivalent administrative work.

In the first place, in terms of personal data conservation in information linkages, it is necessary to clearly stipulate in law what the residents are cooperating on, but this is not necessarily guaranteed by law alone. For example, regarding administrative work and information items subject to information linkages, they are clearly indicated in the Specific information linkages Protection Evaluation before, and are posted on the Personal Information Protection Commission page. At present, they are clearly indicated in law in the form of attached tables, but for example, it may be possible to stipulate some items in the Cabinet and Ministerial Ordinances. In addition, we are considering whether information linkages can be implemented more flexibly in local government. personal data

As for the ideal way of the provisions in such a situation, this is a possible example, and I have listed quite a few options. For example, after listing the parties that handle numbers, it is possible that the administrative work will be specified by the ordinance of the competent ministry. If this is the case, there is too much freedom, and it cannot be said that the purpose of use is properly specified by law, I will list the fields and types of administrative work in addition to this party. For example, the mayor of municipality will write about the administrative work related to child allowances, which is specified by the ordinance of the competent ministry.

If you want to make it a little more detailed, I will list it along with the laws that serve as the basis. In this case, I think it will be an issue whether it is necessarily an individual law or whether it is necessary to write the text in detail as in the current appended table.

On the other hand, when the scope of use is newly expanded, it is necessary to consider that it will be accompanied by a certain burden in terms of handling, including number-related administrative work. Therefore, blindly expanding the scope of use does not lead to improved convenience, and this is a part that needs to be balanced.

I would like to explain so far.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
In relation to the content of the materials I explained, I would like to hear the opinions of members and special members. I will designate them, so if you have any comments, please let me know by the show of hands function. I am very sorry, but I would like you to make a brief statement in about three minutes.

Thank you very much.

First of all, Mr. Shishido, nice to meet you.

SHISHIDO Special Member: I am Shishido of the University of Tokyo, .
In three minutes, I would like to be as brief as possible.

I would like to express my thoughts on page 13, which Mr. Kusunoki just explained, from the perspective of law.

If I were to make a broad comment, I would like to make four points. First of all, I believe that it is fundamentally important from the perspective of the so-called principle of reservation of law that affairs must be specified to a certain extent by law.

This is related to the Supreme Court's decision, but I believe that in principle, such legislation by the Diet is important. It is necessary to clarify the reasons for the use of numbers, to clearly indicate what can and cannot be done by people involved in various administrative operation and other number-related affairs, to prevent abuse by having the Diet decide on this, and to show the guarantee of freedom to the general public. In addition, by having the Diet decide on the number affairs in the attached table, the Diet will decide on privacy, or in the words of the Supreme Court, the balance between freedom of personal information and the public interest in using it.

On the other hand, from a practical point of view, regarding the second point, as you explained, when actually promoting the use of numbers, the fact that the Diet must be extremely strict in legislating the use of numbers is excessive in one aspect and understated in another aspect.

For one thing, when it comes to delegation in the end, if it goes too far, it will be blank delegation. On the other hand, blank delegation is not allowed, so it will be specified in the attached table. However, from the viewpoint of the people, it is not clear what impact the fact that it is written in the attached table will have on one's rights and freedoms. Rather, regarding reservation of law, the principle of infringing reservation, which states that when the rights and freedoms of the people are restricted, they must be specified by law, has generally been taken in Japanese legal affairs. However, I think that there are now many theories in the world of researchers that go further and that it is rather important for the Diet to decide on important matters that are important to society, particularly matters related to the human rights of the people, regardless of whether they are violations or not.

From this perspective, we should consider whether such rules and regulations can be specifically established. This is my second question.

I would like to make two more points briefly. From that perspective, the number mechanism, which is the foundation of digital society, will be promoted in a balance between utilization and protection under effective governance. From the perspective of realizing the digital principles discussed at the Digital Policy Consultation, in exchange for the establishment of an effective governance mechanism by law, the way of writing the provisions of office work will be relaxed to some extent. However, I believe that it should not be relaxed too much, but rather that it should be considered that the law requires the establishment of an effective governance mechanism.

For example, you mentioned the mechanism of PIA. It is not only when the work is newly expanded, but also what is happening after the expansion of the work. For example, the involvement of the Diet is allowed. When a Cabinet Order is created or expanded by creating a Cabinet Order, the government periodically reports to the Diet whether there are any problems, and the Diet controls the Cabinet Order. This is a common example in foreign countries, and it is a way of thinking that has been disliked in Japanese legal affairs, but I think it is rather appropriate in terms of the utilization and balance of the number, which is the foundation of digital society. I think we should go into this and adopt a new way of thinking.

My fourth and final question is about governance. When promoting the utilization of numbers, it is extremely important that there are people from local governments who are responsible for local administration as very large stakeholders, and that they face the residents, and that area, including local governments residents, widely agree on this issue.

If that is the case, for example, with regard to expanding the use of administrative work by Cabinet Order or Ministerial Order, we would rather consider easing the way of regulating administrative work at the legal level by stipulating in law the process of involving stakeholders in the local governments after hearing the opinions of the design. Then, I think we should consider taking a framework in which the entire system and mechanism will be convinced by the national government, the local governments, the people who handle related administrative work, and the residents.

It's been a long time, but that's all from me.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.

Next, Dr. Ohtani would like to start.

Otani Special Member: Based on the legislative facts you proposed and the content of your explanation, it is necessary to review the procedures to enable prompt information linkages, and I believe that sufficient consideration must be given to this.

With regard to the restriction on the provision of information based on Article 19 of the Act, I believe that the administrative work needs to be clarified to a predictable extent for both individuals who will be aware of the personal data by the number and the data connections who must consider the welfare to the residents by judging the advisability of the local government.

At present, the provisions of the law are in the form of a separate table, and I believe that it is clear to some extent, and I believe that a certain method is taken to ensure predictability. As Professor Shishido said, predictability means that how it is actually used in information linkages is also in the situation where validation is possible.

However, if there is a situation in which the speed of information linkages's new measures is impaired due to this, I believe it is appropriate to consider changing the way the attached table is written to the extent that it is predictable for individuals, local government, and others.

Currently, I believe that the wording of Exhibit 1 related to Article 9 is clearly predictable for individuals, but since it is written in a simple manner and is not necessarily the same granularity as data connections, I believe that it must be intermediate.

In addition, as you mentioned on page 11, in the case of local government's own affairs, we may consider establishing a new legislative procedure to promptly establish a mechanism to enable information linkages, or a procedure to determine the procedures in a manner that reflects the will of the people.

That's all from me.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
If there are any comments from Director Kusunoki here, please do so.

Director Kusunoki: As you have just pointed out, there is the weight of having gone through the legislative process to ensure predictability, so I think it is necessary to firmly consider how to make the flexibility of cooperation and the legitimacy and predictability of procedures compatible into specific procedures while firmly holding down the baseline here. As Professor Shishido commented at the beginning, the way of involving stakeholders and the current situation of prior discipline are very important, but the so-called ex post monitoring is also very important. Monitoring and reporting by the Protection Committee have been conducted so far, but I think it is necessary to continue to consider how to prepare the monitoring part and the way of involving stakeholders as a governance mechanism, as well as how to discipline in advance as a balance while enhancing overall flexibility.

Councilor Kimura: Next, Mr. Sugawara, please.

Special member Sugawara: Thank you, Thank you very much.
First of all, I basically agree with this paper on the points of discussion and their directions.

I would like to make two comments. There are some that overlap with Mr. Shishido's talk about governance earlier, but I would like to comment on the necessity of effective governance and the criteria for classification of government and ministerial ordinances.

First of all, regarding governance, public service from the perspective of the people and users, facilitation of cooperation between the backyards of the government, and improvements in productivity of business operations will eventually lead to the improvement of services for users, but we should take immediate measures to promote these, and the point in promoting them is to strengthen governance.

Up until now, in addition to the previous disciplinary and prior restraint measures, the establishment of Personal Information Protection Commission has enabled the post hoc monitoring function, but in order to further advance this proposal, I believe that more specific consideration should be given to further strengthening the post hoc response function, including in Personal Information Protection Commission and the Diet.

Next, I would like to propose that we consider criteria for classification in the Cabinet and Ministerial Ordinances. I believe that it would be better to set some easy-to-understand criteria for how to incorporate them into the Cabinet and Ministerial Ordinances. We will respond to each specific matter, but as a whole, we will consider criteria and methods for classification so that we can organize them according to, for example, the degree of involvement of Personal Information Protection Commission, and in particular, the privacy level of how much privacy is involved. In the case of similar matters, it is necessary to carefully look at each individual matter, but I believe that it would be better to consider responding in a categorized manner as a whole.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Next, Mr. Goto, please.

GOTO Special Member: My name is area Information Technology Research Institute.
I would like to express my opinion on the two items you just explained.

First of all, regarding the issue of awareness, I believe that it is very important to complete the application process in 60 seconds in smartphone. To realize this, I believe that it is necessary to make it possible to immediately display not only the relevant individuals but also the members of their households on the screen and make it possible to make inquiries in smartphone.

There was a great confusion in local government because we could not apply for the special flat-rate benefit for measures against the novel coronavirus in 2020. Based on this example, I would like to ask you to consider the implementation of the plan.

To put it another way, we recognize that it is basically impossible to make real-time inquiries about income and health insurance information with the current information linkages system. In that sense, I believe it is necessary to have a mechanism that makes it possible to make real-time inquiries in some way and does not excessively centralize information management.

If this is possible, the administrative processing system of local government will be able to automatically examine, judge, and determine the content of the application at the time of application, which will significantly affect administrative efficiency. To that end, the system of local government will also be significantly changed, and I believe it will be re-created from scratch. I would like to ask that the feasibility be fully considered when considering the schedule, considering the volume of the matter and advancing the efforts in stages.

Second, regarding the scope of information linkages, the central government, local governments, and other organizations are written separately in the middle part of page 8 of the document, but I believe that there is actually almost one, but I believe that this part does not fall under the unified management of personal data.

With regard to that, I believe it would be acceptable for Personal Information Protection Commission to take measures such as periodically confirming and announcing the results.

On page 9, I was in local government, so I can understand the process issue of n plus one or two years, but the situation around here is very difficult for the people to understand. I think it may be said that it is a matter of the legislative process.

I think that it is basically necessary to a certain extent to drop it into a Cabinet and Ministerial Ordinance, etc., but I think that the provisions such as No. 2 on page 13 of the materials are too vague. I would like you to consider making it a law in a form that is easy for the people to understand. At this time, I think that it is good to consider a clause culture that takes into account, for example, machine readability and machine readable.

I myself thought that the efforts such as reporting to the Diet, which Mr. Shishido mentioned earlier, were very wonderful. Thank you very much.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Next, Mr. Makoto Mori, nice to meet you. Everyone has been speaking for more than three minutes, so please be brief.

Member: I will speak briefly.
With regard to information linkages, as stated in this paper, in the case that local governments' own affairs are diversified under decentralization, the needs for information linkages that does not comply with the Number Act will increase. I believe that legislative measures are necessary to enable information linkages under certain standards. After introducing measures to ensure that information linkages is within the scope of legitimate administrative purposes, I believe that it is possible to open the way to make it possible to stipulate it in the Cabinet and Ministerial Ordinances.

I have one question from here. I believe that the Special Fixed Amount benefit, which distributes 100,000 yen to all Japanese citizens, does not fall under the three fields of tax, social security, and disasters, so the number cannot be used. However, I believe that after the revision of the law, such affairs will be handled. Recently, particularly for the novel coronavirus and economic measures, benefits that are not based on laws but are provided only by budget measures, such as Sustainable benefit, Special Fixed Amount benefit, and point refunds, are provided only by budget measures. In that case, for example, I would like to ask what the "law that serves as the basis" in (iii) on page 13 would be like.

I am a tax researcher, so it is very strange that such a system, which is not based on law, can be created more and more. Because it is not a right or obligation to the people, but a benefit, and in addition, because it is an emergency, there is a possibility that the number of cases in which only budgetary measures are taken will increase rapidly in the future. I would like to ask if the Secretariat has any ideas on how to accept it within the numbering system and how to handle it efficiently.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Mr. Kusunoki, Director-General, may I ask you a question?

Director Kusunoki: In regard to the question first raised by Dr. Makoto Mori, we have recently established a framework of specific public benefits at the timing of the digital reform Act, so if we make a notification here, My Number can be used and it will be possible to join the framework of information linkages.

Member: You have made a comprehensive revision of the law.

Director Kusunoki: That's right. In that regard, it is established that information can be used for local government's own affairs by designating benefits as specific public benefits.

This includes other points, but regarding the households and real-time inquiries that Mr. Goto mentioned, these are important points, and we are considering them now in the discussion of overall architecture. Regarding real-time inquiries, we will not realize them only in public office, but we will also discuss how to utilize the information that the private sector sector has, so I think it is necessary to conduct thorough research in the future.

In terms of how to create a system to properly conduct examination, judgment, and decision making, there is a current situation in which the actors are divided depending on the benefit. Therefore, it is not easy to develop a system for such examination or collect data in the case of a sudden benefit. There are various hurdles, including budget measures for system construction, and it is necessary to conduct thorough research from the perspective of what kind of method there is, so I will work on it.

Dr. Sugawara suggested that easy-to-understand standards such as government and ministerial ordinances are necessary, and that it is possible to classify and respond by properly considering the degree of involvement and privacy level. As a way of thinking, I think that the strength of governance must be changed depending on the case of handling highly sensitive information and the impact on the person. On the other hand, I think that there are various regions, including how they can be written legally and technically, so I think that it is necessary to carefully consider what kind of methods there are based on a specific Issue.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Ota.

Member: Thank you, Thank you very much.
First of all, the materials in the first half of today are very well organized, including the history up to now, and the analysis on pages 9 and 10 is very wonderful, so I would like to have this in the form of an infographic. The Digital Agency website is very easy to read, so there are not many people who dig down to the materials here, so I would like to have it placed at a lower level.

I would like to make two points. In today's discussion, I think it is a balance between governance in the context of predictability by law and monitoring by experts in Personal Information Protection Commission and elsewhere. Going one step further, I would like you to consider governance by taking into account whether residents are worried about how their information is handled and whether they are satisfied with its utilization.

Yesterday, I went to Aizuwakamatsu. We use a lot of resident information, but we can't understand the voices of the silent majority unless we take a questionnaire on satisfaction and anxiety. There may be a slight bias in the voices of the silent majority, but the voices of the noisy minority inevitably stand out. I would like to see periodic surveys on how they are used from the perspective of the residents.

There are very few residents who read the attached table or access Mynaportal to check how their information is used, so I think there are some who feel what is happening through the service. So, I would like to include that point of view.

Second, on page 8, it is difficult to designate a specific personal data. For example, vaccinations is a specific personal data because it uses a personal identification number, but in the actual operation, we do not know the date of the vaccination, so when we call the local government office and ask them to tell us, what they are checking is their date of birth and name. So we give them information about when the date of the vaccination is.

Most of them are like that, but in Mynaportal, it is necessary to authenticate each time in My Number Card, so there is a considerable gap between how to pass the actual resident information to the residents and how to pass it through Mynaportal, so if we are going to cooperate, we would like you to organize the gap including the access method of the information and the actual gap.

I think this is similar to the categorization that Ms. Sugawara mentioned earlier, but with the current method, it is too solidly protected to use. In fact, in Aizuwakamatsu, after entering the date of birth and name in the maternal and child health handbook, we give it to them. After giving it to them, they are asked to use it at their own discretion. This may not be a point of discussion today, but I would like you to consider it including categorization.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Next, Mr. Saito, nice to meet you.

Saito Member: I'm Saito . Thank you very much.
As for the policy you indicated this time, I basically agree with the policy of loosening it a little more, rather than Exhibit 2.

Having said that, I would like to make two points. As Mr. Sugawara stated earlier, the first point is related to categorization, but I believe that a certain level of perspective is needed not only from the perspective of the privacy level of information protection, but also from the perspective of urgency in light of the three years of the novel coronavirus crisis.

Therefore, in consideration of the crisis of the people's livelihood, I think it would be good to include the perspective of defense from the perspective of privacy level and the perspective of offense such as degree of urgency, or the perspective of implementing policies based on a firm judgment of degree of urgency.

My other question is, as Mr. Ohta mentioned, the history of communications in Mynaportal and the post-hoc check by the Committee on Personal Information have not been sufficiently disseminated to the people of Japan. Even if I look at the screen of the history of communications in Mynaportal, I do not understand what information is being used and for what purpose. I believe that it is necessary to make it easier for the people to understand what kind of cooperation is being made.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Then, Director Kusunoki, please.

Director Kusunoki: , Mr. Ohta suggested that we post it on the website as an infographic. Although the Agency is discussing whether it is possible to make the overall materials of this working group a little more easy-to-understand, we recognize that there is a Issue that it is difficult to understand for the purpose of educating the residents because it is written to contribute to legislative work and bill review work at the same time.

Since we have designers in Digital Agency, we would like to raise awareness in a more easy-to-understand manner. I would like to think about whether we will do this during the review meeting, or whether we will do it through public relations activities once the policies have been established to some extent, including timing.

In addition, not only the monitoring by the Protection Committee, but also the monitoring of how residents feel, is not only for enlightenment, but also from an extremely important perspective, including usability. Not only in Mynaportal, but recently in Digital Agency, we have been improving usability not only in the vaccination certificate application but in general, by regularly monitoring the evaluation points of the application, eliminating comments one by one, resolving Issue, and finally bringing the Minor Point application to a good point of more than three. Therefore, I believe that Digital Agency will place importance on not only understanding the feedback from residents but also connecting it to specific service improvements.

Next, Mr. Saito pointed out that the communication history of Mynaportal has not been widely spread among the people. In the first place, we have been concerned about this since the creation of the Information Provision and Record Disclosure System in Mynaportal. I believe that the significance of this is that we can confirm this for sure if you feel uneasy. Not so many accesses are not only a negative story, but also there are many people who do not feel uneasy. On the other hand, it will be a problem if it is difficult to understand when you open it because you feel uneasy. Of course, it is a page of public office, so we have been working hard to consider how flexible the expression can be, including the accuracy of the description and the relationship with laws. Even if we make it flexible in the course of creating it, it has only been made so far. However, with the establishment of the system of Digital Agency and the increase in the number of members of private sector, we would like to continue to pursue how to make it a page where the content can be understood from the perspective of the users. Thank you very much.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
At this point, I would like to pause the first half. Is that okay?

Next, I would like to enter the second half of the document. Director Kusunoki will explain the second half of the document. After that, I would like to hear the opinions of the members and special members as I have just mentioned.

Then, Director-General, thank you in advance.

Director Kusunoki: , I would like to talk about information linkages's method.
In the first half, I would like to talk about the "Institutional Protection Measures" in the green middle square below. What I am going to talk about is how to update the "Institutional Security Control Measures" in the blue square on the lower right in design, data sharing platform.

Of course, we will advance the transition of systems to Government Cloud, which Digital Agency will develop gradually toward twenty twenty-five. In this process, we will steadily realize security improvement along with cost reduction, and we will actively consider the use of new security technology that has not been introduced so far in Government Cloud, where the latest and highest level of security is secured.

Looking back at the time of the design of the information provision network system about 10 years ago, we were talking about how to connect the systems of each city, town, village, prefecture, etc. that were basically established, and by automating the management of the infrastructure while riding on the common infrastructure and using managed services, etc., it was stipulated as a rule at the natural language level that the rules should be followed in security of the unified standard group, but in the future, it will be possible to thoroughly implement policies with a so-called program called infrastructure-as-a-code, and to configure each system safely at a properly raised level.

In addition, we will establish standards for such logging, data and communication encryption, and access controls for applications running on top of it, and make sure that applications follow them. In addition, in the future, new technologies, including high-performance cryptography and confidential computing, can be used as environments, so we are considering actively considering whether these can actually be used through technology validation.

In terms of future studies on security control measures for the system, we believe that the system can be flexibly updated by incorporating changes promptly. To this end, the system should be configured to be as flexible and simple as possible. In addition, we believe that the method for realizing security control measures should be updated through technology validation.

Since the creation of the My Number Law, including distributed management, various security control measures have been taken. One of the important security measures taken in the information provision network system is to take measures so that the code used only by the cooperation infrastructure, etc. and the holding institution to identify the person in question cannot be inferred from the number, without directly using the number as a means of information linkages.

We are considering updating the method to prevent centralized management of personal data. Until now, we have been using codes for each organization. Within this, we would like to consider how this method can be updated on the basis of information linkages on Government Cloud.

There are several articles listed in this document. Currently, the relationship between numbers and codes by agency is specified in considerable detail in the articles, and it is structured so that it is not possible to easily estimate the reverse from the number or code. Can the same thing be realized in the articles, or is it necessary to review the articles themselves? At present, we are conducting technical discussions, and I have a prospect that we will be able to realize it while basically maintaining this mechanism.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Now, in relation to the content of the materials, I would like to ask for your opinions. I am also very sorry, but I would like it to be about 3 minutes. I will appoint you, so please let me know about it by the show of hands function.

Then, Mr. Shoji, please.

Shoji Member: Thank you, Thank you very much.
With regard to the consideration of updating the information linkages method that you just explained, it is written at the top that "For data sharing platform, twenty twenty-five will be the main target for implementation." Updating the security measures on the system is naturally necessary and important, but I think it is necessary to carefully confirm who will complete what in implementation.

As I have been saying several times, local government is now taking action to complete the specifications by the end of August and to complete the standardization by the end of fiscal 2025. We have received various concerns and indications about this, and I believe that many things will happen in the future.

In addition, if My Number Card spreads by the end of this fiscal year, it will be necessary to do various things in accordance with it, and we have to promote local government DX voluntarily, so the local government site is really busy.

Therefore, if we are to change the mechanism for the information linkages that is currently in operation, I am concerned that if we do not do so carefully, there is a possibility that it will put additional burden on the site in local government.

Therefore, I would like to ask for your consideration. In the first place, for example, regarding standardization, the end of fiscal 2025 is an absolute target for twenty twenty-five. It is a pledge, but I believe that it was written as an extremely important matter that we will proceed while carefully listening to the opinions of local governments in cooperation between the central and local governments. I believe it was a kind of pledge.

So, if we listen carefully to local government's voices, understand the progress of the site, and run them simultaneously, we should do it carefully. In terms of listening carefully to local government's voices, we may say that we are doing a co-creation platform or we are asking for opinions in each specifications, but I think that is the only way to listen carefully.

For example, there are many people who are not participating in the Co-Creation Platform, so I would like you to disclose the status of the discussion, even just the results, and I would like you to make various efforts and listen to opinions in various ways to update information linkages.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Next, Mr. Uehara, please.

Uehara Special Member: I'm Uehara.
One thing I would like to ask you is that, as Mr. Shoji mentioned earlier, it is needless to say that the design and implementation of the base with twenty twenty-five as the target will be a quite difficult work, so I would like you to proceed carefully. On the other hand, when various systems are added to twenty twenty-five, if we start moving with the current implementation as it is, it will be difficult to move it, and it will be difficult to move to a new system, so I think it is necessary for the new system to be in operation in twenty twenty-five if possible.

One thing I would like to confirm is that the new cooperation mechanism is probably based on the current inter-agency code. To be honest, it is not very visible to the people, so if the functions are the same, there are no major concerns in any implementation, and it would be relatively easy to reach an agreement that the same level of safety would be maintained. The most problematic thing is that although you said that there are not many users now, securing transparency, that is, how to return the fact that cooperation has been carried out to the people, is an extremely important issue, and I believe that the most important thing is to make implementation a implementation in which cooperation is carried out well. I would like you to declare that we will proceed in a manner that guarantees this at an early date.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Mr. Kusunoki, Director-General, may I ask you a question?

Director Kusunoki: Thank you very much.
The issue of the timing is quite difficult, and this is still the timing for consideration, so we are not at the stage where we can make a final decision on what will be done and by when, unless the bill is actually passed and budgetary measures are taken. However, as you pointed out, the twenty twenty-five is the deadline for the standardization of the local government system, and I believe that it is necessary for the plan to be consistent with this.

As Mr. Uehara said, in the end, it will not be directly visible to the people, but will be close to the interface between the systems. So, depending on how it is done, I think it may be possible to consider a method of smooth transition in a manner that does not have a major impact on existing operations. Naturally, in system construction, migration will be important in addition to design, the foundation. However, at this time, since this is a mechanism in which so many systems are already connected, it is difficult to talk about the transition of all organizations at the same time. How to make a transition plan is an extremely important issue. So, I would like to ask for your guidance after thorough consideration in the course of materializing the plan.

In relation to this, Dr. Shoji mentioned that regarding local government system standardization, listening carefully to the voices of local government in cooperation between the central and local governments is not only about co-creation platforms, but also about various channels.

Recently, there have been dialogues between the three mayors of ordinance-designated cities and ministers, and hearings with vendors and others have been conducted very actively. Although there are some parts that are slightly outside the direct scope of the Maina WG, I think there are quite a few things that local government does not understand at the time of how to decide the basic policies on standardization. Whether vendors will properly insert tags and what will happen to human resources at that timing are topics for dialogue with local government, and while a great number of stakeholders, including vendors, are involved in this work nationwide, we will carefully and firmly grasp the situation and solve each transition that will be a barrier to twenty twenty-five together. Issue

In addition to dialogue with local government, Digital Agency, together with Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, including vendors, will firmly grasp the situation and make necessary efforts and support.

Councilor Kimura: , nice to meet you.

GOTO Special Member: My name is . I am Goto from area Information Technology Research Institute. I would like to say a few things about what you have explained.

First of all, I can understand the content of the materials in general, but it is true that the information linkages where the numbers on page 15 are not directly used is that the identifiers are related to the personal identification numbers, so in that part, the systems and systems seem to be more complicated and the actual situation seems to be difficult to understand. I believe that this has been pointed out for some time. I would like you to think about it.

In particular, the pursuit of efficiency is a supreme proposition for private sector companies, but in local government and other cities, we must aim for an efficient and convenient system while avoiding excessive centralized management of personal data and ensuring appropriate personal data protection. Therefore, I think it is necessary to fully understand that there are quite different principles in terms of thought.

In addition, although Personal Identification Numbers are currently treated as information that should be kept confidential, I believe that there is no prerequisite relationship between the fact that Personal Identification Numbers are personal data in order to satisfy the requirement that there is no organization or entity that can centrally manage design as stated in the Supreme Court ruling and the fact that Personal Identification Numbers are treated as information that should be kept confidential. I think we can discuss this a little more.

Finally, a friend of mine in local government, Chiba, told me that seven years ago today was the date of enforcement of the Number Act, which is important for local government, and it has been exactly seven years since then.

During this time, I believe that it would be good to provide a more extensive and detailed explanation while improving the following points: there have been no accidents such as information leakage caused by personal identification numbers in the system; the operation status is appropriately managed; and as you mentioned earlier, the access status of personal information can be confirmed.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: . I'm sorry, I didn't realize that it was the date of enforcement. I think it is an important milestone.

Then, Mr. Saito, nice to meet you.

Saito Member: I'm Saito . Thank you for your explanation.
As Mr. Kusunoki mentioned, I agree with the direction of changing the method based on technological innovation in a system that is based on institutional information linkages in the form of codes by organization, intermediate servers, and information provision network systems as a way of design. As one of the perspectives of updating such an architecture, I believe that the concept of code standardization is a realistic approach to work in a closed form on Government Cloud.

In addition, I would like to make one point. The current system is, in a sense, an on-premise system for 1,700 local government, an intermediate server for connecting various organizations, and an information provision network system. In this system, system cooperation is extremely expensive and does not involve a sense of speed. This time, in the form of data sharing platform in total design, it does not require an intermediate server. For example, I think the main direction is to change the system cooperation to an API-based system for standardized local government. I think it would be good to change the system cooperation in accordance with this direction.

Another point is that in the process of organizing data sharing platform, there is naturally an idea of a period of parallel operation of both the information provision network system and the transition in stages, so first of all, in addition to the planning for the stage transition of the national system, I would like to see a roadmap or a rough plan for the transition of the local government system, as Mr. Shoji mentioned earlier.

For my part, I think it is quite difficult to do a one shot transition of everything from the local government system and UI to the database and business logic. So, first of all, I think we can sort out a more effective approach to twenty twenty-five if we consider an approach to bring the data stored in the local government system to Buckler and make effective use of it, which may be mentioned in relation to the Buckler lift of the intermediate server.

That's all from me.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Then, Director Kusunoki, thank you for your cooperation.

Director Kusunoki: Thank you very much.
Mr. Goto's talk about the date of enforcement is a turning point, so thank you for your point.

Even if the number is not directly used, it is positioned as a number similar to that of a specific personal data, including the code, under the My Number Act, and the systems and systems are complicated because they satisfy various requirements at the same time. I feel that how to carefully explain this is extremely important from the perspective of transparency.

I have not raised the issue of whether the so-called 12-digit number will be kept secret in the future. I am aware that there are various opinions, but for the time being, the main focus is on how to ensure smooth cooperation, and the revision has not reached that level.

However, as you pointed out, it is not necessarily the case that the use of codes and the acquisition of numbers should be discussed in an integrated manner. On the other hand, in responding to various threats, we also believe that it is effective as a security management measure not to use direct numbers for cooperation. Therefore, it is better to continue to cooperate without using numbers as a security management measure. This is the content of this report.

After all, since each organization has a 12-digit number, there are various issues such as the relationship between information linkages and the handling of the number, but I believe that it is necessary to discuss each issue separately.

In considering the parallel operation period and phased transition that Mr. Saito pointed out, while the local government system cannot be operated all at once, you are absolutely right that a roadmap should be presented. However, overall, I think it is necessary to discuss the timing at which the transition can be provided based on the passage of the bill and the development plan, as well as the circumstances of the various local government vendors that will operate standard compliance system as a development. Based on this, we need to have a dialogue and make it into a feasible plan. Therefore, we would like to provide information so that each stakeholder can easily make a plan as much as possible, and we would like to be able to show what kind of transition we will consider in a planned manner step by step.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Then, do you have any other opinions?

With your cooperation, it will be finished very soon. Is there anything I can do for you?

Member: . I have some spare time. Is that okay?

Councilor Kimura: .

Member: , I would like to say one thing. From the perspective of alleviating the concerns of the people about the number, I heard that you are struggling with security measures in the system. I think that is important. On the other hand, for example, according to what I saw and heard about the public fund receiving account Registration System, there were multiple people, even highly knowledgeable people, who were naively concerned that if you register public fund receiving account, the government would be able to see all of your deposit accounts. This system is being implemented on a large scale with incentives such as point granting. In addition to being highly convenient for receiving pensions and child allowances, it is quite common for people to receive points for 7,500 yen for health insurance card unless they clearly publicize that their deposit accounts will not be seen by the government even if they register.

I think that more PR will lead to eliminating the concerns of the people as much as possible. In particular, the second stage of deposit account registration will start from now on, and obligations are also planned after that, so I would like to ask you to do that.

Thank you very much.

Director Kusunoki: :

Fortunately, about 18 million accounts have already been registered, and Mynaportal has a certain burden to enter the account number on the registration screen, so I was worried that the registration would be considerably lower than the use of so-called health insurance card. However, the number of registered accounts has been fairly steady with only a few percent of the accounts being dropped, and I believe that it is necessary to dispel concerns while carefully analyzing whether such concerns are among the reasons for dropping accounts or whether the entry is complicated, and to make it possible for many people to register with peace of mind.

Councilor Kimura: Next, Mr. Shoji, please.

Shoji Member: Thank you, Thank you very much.
I have just talked a little about communication and the deadline for the target, but I would like to make a supplementary comment.

Not only standardization but also My Number Card, and as you mentioned earlier about the target deadline for data sharing platform, I don't think we should change the target of "what will be achieved?" such as having almost all people have My Number Card or standardization, but I think the part of "by when" and "how" should be reviewed in detail depending on the actual situation. Setting a target by when tends to be a high target. Even at that time, we said that it would be difficult to set a twenty twenty-five for standardization.

However, there are some areas where we said we had to do it because it was such a goal, so I think it was good to do it in five years instead of 10 or 20 years, but we have experienced the problem that sticking too much to the deadline leads to a deterioration in the quality of systems and applications, so I think we must learn from that.

Therefore, as a result of careful communication, we may not be able to completely review the deadline, but I think we can change this part.

I think it will be difficult for Mr. Digital Agency to say such a thing, so I think we will start with this member.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: .
Next, Mr. Goto and Mr. Ohtani, nice to meet you.

GOTO Special Member: My name is Goto. Thank you very much. I will be brief.
It is certainly true that Mr. Kusunoki said that there are various parts that need to be coordinated with the information of private sector and so on, and that it is quite difficult to prepare. On the other hand, under the system in which local government is the contact point, almost all services are completed with the information that local government has, and the percentage of procedures that are completed is very high, so in that sense, I think it is very important to start from there.

One particularly important point is that the people of Japan feel that it is convenient, and that they become familiar with and understand the service in a form more suited to the digitalization.

Finally, Mr. Saito, one of the members, mentioned earlier that information linkages will be able to provide information directly online even if there is no local government system. I have been dreaming about this for a long time, and I believe it is one of the ideals. However, I believe that it will be difficult for more than 1,740 organizations to switch to such a system. Based on this, I would like you to proceed with more specific discussions on where and how to start and reach the horizontal line.

That's all.

Councilor Kimura: , please.

Otani Special Member: Thank you very much.
I would like to go back to the basic part a little, but I would like to confirm the positioning of the symbols explained in the document.

As for the code in the current system, I think it is recognized that there are multiple codes because each information-holding organization has a code and uses a code to connect them. I thought that the new system under consideration would use the code but could become a common code that is uniquely linked to the My Number. If that is not correct, I would like to make a few comments.

If the number and code associated with each information-holding organization were used, I believe that it had the meaning of a technical measure to support distributed management so that one public authorities would not hold a personal data other than the purpose specified by law.

We expect that the new security methods that you are currently considering will greatly enhance the robustness of measures to prevent inadvertent data leakage outside Government Cloud in the future. However, if the code used for information linkages internally is a code that corresponds to My Number one to-one and is positioned as a complete substitute for My Number, I believe that safety measures must be taken to prevent specific personal data from being concentrated in one public authorities. I believe that various methods can be considered, and although I believe that the current method is not the only method, I would like to ask you to consider a wide range of methods.

That's all from me.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
So, Director-General, time is running out, so please be brief.

Director Kusunoki: Certainly.
First of all, I would like to ask a rather specific question from Special Member Otani. As you pointed out, what the so-called institutional code has secured so far is that it has secured decentralized management. Even if a code is created, it should not be able to be easily linked with other organizations like the back number of the My Number.

On the other hand, if the current code and message formats remain unchanged, there are cases in Issue where it is difficult to smoothly link household information, for example, or to batch process the system.

Therefore, in the first place, in the current system and the current information provision network system, we went back to the starting point of what the system was used to ensure, and in the process of decomposing the requirements, the points pointed out by Special Member Otani are also important points, so I think it is necessary to consider a method of cooperation that can ensure distributed management by organization so that such concerns can be eliminated.

It is very difficult to discuss identifiers. How to handle identifiers in so-called messages, how to fix them in secondary recording devices in each database, and where to put them and how to convert them are also quite technical issues. Although I have not brought detailed methods to you today, I am working on design, consideration, etc., with an emphasis on the perspective you pointed out, so I would like to have an opportunity to explain it later.

In addition, as Mr. Goto said, it is exactly true that there are many places where services can be completed within the information that local government has, and this time, we are focusing on and working on information linkages in local government, which was discussed in the first half of the Maina WG. In terms of childcare support benefits, there are some parts that have already been realized, including push-type benefits through specific public benefits, so we will actively continue to pursue what local government can do with the information that it has now.

Finally, Mr. Shoji said that the target tends to be set high, but the feedback should be the result of proper and careful communication. I think I can speak about this because I have minutes from a long time ago. When I was an expert member of this working group, I argued that it was 2030. However, the Cabinet decided two years ago that 20 operations would be carried out by the twenty twenty-five in various processes. To be honest, I think it is quite difficult for me to be questioned like this. When I look back on the time when we started the My Number System system, I have received various opinions from local government since the start of the system and have been improving it. I have received opinions from various Issue in the standardization work for nearly two years. In fact, since the standard specifications were established in August, we have received many opinions. In the process of setting the flag of 2025 and working toward this point, I think it has become clear where the problem really is at a higher resolution. First of all, in the process of setting the flag and working carefully, the specific Issue will become clear by increasing the resolution. So, it is not the same as the previous method. In aiming for this twenty twenty-five, we will firmly determine where the real is, listen to the voices of not only local government but also a wide range of vendors, eliminate the real bottlenecks one by one, and listen carefully to what parts will not be in time for the twenty twenty-five. In this way, we will solve each Issue together with the aim of achieving the transition of the twenty twenty-five. Thank you for your continued guidance.

Councilor Kimura: Thank you very much.
Finally, I would like to ask for a comment from Chief Officer for Digital Policy Akaishi, the chief investigator of this working group.

Chief Officer for Digital Policy Akaishi: This is Akaishi . Thank you very much for your very in-depth discussion this time.
As for the target, if we don't set a deadline, officials will skip it. On the other hand, if we were to tell the people of almost all of Japan that we would like to visit My Number Card within this fiscal year, we would have to do our best, so we are doing it while being hit by the wind. Thanks to you, we have reached 70 million tickets on an application basis. Therefore, I think it would be good to set the target a little higher both in political terms and in terms of enlisting officers.

Also, I received a very good opinion on how to revise the My Number law. One solution is to firmly establish not only the main body and business, but also the relationship of governance, procedures, etc., so I would like to firmly consider it.

As you said, I think it is good to strike a balance between distributed management and efficiency. Finally, a good example from local government is moving Vision for a Digital Garden City Nation, for example, Kitami City is creating a mechanism that allows everyone to work together in local government in a simple manner, and the window is very simplified. We are trying to expand such an example nationwide. This time, I think about 70 cities will expand it horizontally.

We are also supporting it with support funds for Digital Garden City. Although it is not directly related to this story, we would like to steadily expand good examples of cooperation in local government.

We are almost at the preliminary stage of drafting the bill. We will do our best based on your opinions.

Thank you for your time today.

Councilor Kimura: , That's all for today's agenda.
The materials and minutes of this working group will be disclosed on our website. The secretariat will check the minutes with everyone from tomorrow. Thank you.

In addition, after the meeting today, the Secretariat will hold a press briefing on the plenary session.

The office will contact you again about the next schedule.

With that said, I would like to conclude the 6th Maina WG. Thank you very much, everyone.