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2023 (2023) Third Expert Meeting on Policy Evaluation and Administrative Project Review [Disclosure Process]

Overview

Materials

Related Materials

We prepared the 2023 (2023) Policy Evaluation and Public Service Review Report (pages 5 to 8) based on comments from experts in the public disclosure process.
For details, please refer to the 4th Policy Evaluation and Administrative Project Review Expert Council .

Conference Video

Minutes

Councilor Mori: Thank you, Now, we will hold the 2023 "Digital Agency Policy Evaluation and Administrative Project Review (Disclosure Process)."
Today's proceedings will be led by Mr. Mori, Counsellor of Digital Agency.
Today's meeting will be held using the web conference system. First of all, Mr. Tomiyasu, Managing Director of the Digital Agency Strategic organization Group, will give an address. Thank you very much.

Director-General Tomiyasu: .
We would like to thank all the experts for your continued support. Thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to join us today.
In today's disclosure process, among the projects selected for expert inspection in March this year, we will discuss the "Government Common Website," which has a high level of interest in terms of being used by the people. This project was launched from the perspective of making the website, which had been created individually by each ministry and agency, easier to use, better, and easier to understand from the perspective of the people.
In that sense, it is very important to increase the effectiveness of policies. Therefore, I would be grateful if you, experts, could have a lively discussion on how to improve the quality of this project from the perspective of whether or not the policy purpose, the setting of goals, and the approach method are appropriate. Thank you very much.
I would appreciate it if you could have a frank discussion with me.

Councilor Mori: Thank you, .
Now, I would like to introduce the external experts who are attending today. A total of four external experts, two dedicated to Digital Agency and two dedicated to the Secretariat of the Headquarters for the Promotion of Administrative Reform of the Cabinet Secretariat, are attending today's disclosure process.
First of all, Mr. Ichiro Sato, Professor of Information and Social Science at the National Institute of Informatics, who chairs the Expert Committee on Policy Evaluation and Administrative Review in Digital Agency, which is participating here with us. We ask Mr. Sato to proceed with the discussion as the chair, and to summarize your opinions at the end.
Next, external experts are participating in the web conference system.
First, Ms. Naoko Iwasaki, President of the International CIO Society, a non-profit organization.

Member Iwasaki: Thank you very much, , I would like to ask for your cooperation.
Next, Ms. Yuka Shimada, co-founder and Representative Director of YeeY Co., Ltd.

Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, , I would like to ask for your cooperation.

Councilor Mori: Thank you, Last but not least, Mr. Shigeyuki Mito, Partner Attorney at TMI Associates.

Member Mito: .

Councilor Mori: Thank you, , I would like to thank all of the above four outside experts for their cooperation today.
Next, I would like to explain today's progress. First, the person in charge of the project will explain the project. After that, I would like to hear frank opinions and questions about the project from the members. After that, we will make an announcement about it about five minutes before the end of the discussion, so please give your final comments. After that, I would like to ask Chairman Sato to summarize the comments on behalf of the members, and I would like to confirm the decision after obtaining the approval of the members.
In addition, in order to prevent noise, the microphone is usually set to off. When you speak, if you lightly raise your hand or press the hand raise button on the system, the chairman will designate you, so please turn on the microphone and speak. When you finish speaking, please turn the microphone back to off.
Now, we are going to have a discussion by outside experts, so I would like to ask Chairman Sato to proceed. Then, Chairman Sato, please.

Chair: Mr. Shimada . Nice to meet you.
At the beginning, I would like to briefly explain the background because this is a public process.
There are two types of evaluation in ministries and agencies. One is the so-called Administrative Project Review led by the Secretariat of the Administrative Reform Promotion Headquarters of the Cabinet Secretariat, and the other is the Council of Experts on Policy Evaluation established in each ministries and agencies based on the Policy Evaluation Act. However, since two evaluations are conducted, they are burdensome for the original division of each ministries and agencies, and each ministries and agencies is trying various ways to reduce the burden through trial and error. In Digital Agency, the Administrative Project Review and the Council of Experts on Policy Evaluation are integrated, and this is the third evaluation this fiscal year.
For the past two times this fiscal year, we have not made public announcements, not live broadcasts like this time, but the minutes and other documents have been made public, so please take a look at them.
In addition, I would like to add one more thing before the deliberation. Regarding the selection this time, I believe it was before March this year, but we selected four systems that will be targeted before the next system renewal, or so-called system renewal. Therefore, in other words, regarding systems that are already in operation, it is not always possible to reflect what I pointed out here, so I would like to say that we are targeting systems before renewal. We have selected four systems, and today we will discuss mainly one of them. After this, I would like to proceed with the flow of receiving questions and comments from each member after receiving an explanation from the person in charge.
So, the person in charge of the project, is the original section ready? Are you all right?
In that case, could you explain it to me right away? Thank you.

Councilor Miyanishi: . Nice to meet you.
Then, I will explain in order according to the materials.
Please turn one page and I will explain in this flow today.
Please tell us the following. First of all, regarding the purpose of the policy, as described here, ministries and agencies are currently developing websites, but from the user's point of view, the design of each ministry and agency is different, and the ease of access to information is also different. In addition, there are situations where the ease of access for people with various disabilities is not sufficiently considered.
On the other hand, the persons in charge of the ministries and agencies that operate the system do not necessarily have expertise about the website in the development and operation of the system. In addition, there is a Issue in which the know-how is not sufficiently shared because each ministry and agency conducts its own development and operation.
So far, we have been promoting demonstration experiments as Digital Agency with a view to creating a unified website, but goal is currently conducting operations while slightly changing the composition because we believe it is important to make necessary efforts to improve the convenience of various users, including people with disabilities, to be able to access necessary information, to reduce the necessary expenses for each ministry and agency, and to reduce the burden on those in charge, rather than creating an integrated website.
Please show me the next slide. It is target setting. Currently, ministries and agencies are building websites in accordance with certain standards, such as website guidebooks. However, information cannot be accessed smoothly, and people with disabilities cannot access necessary information. For this reason, this website guidebook alone is not sufficient.
If information is not being sent to the people correctly, it will be impossible to ensure sufficient reliability from the perspective of DX in the future. Therefore, we will consider what is required of us. First, we will build a prototype Digital Agency website and accumulate know-how on ease of use and access by continuously improving it. By sharing these with each ministry and agency, we will improve the ease of use of the website and reduce the burden of operation. We have reached the idea that we should involve each ministry and agency in this effort.
Please tell us the following. In terms of the approach, in terms of the outline of how to proceed so far, we started by building an alpha version of design system, which specifies typography that is easy for anyone to access, whether visually attractive and easy-to-read text is arranged as information, fonts, and the like, and CMS, which is a function to manage content in the core part of the website. After that, in fiscal 2022, we built the Digital Agency website and conducted validation of its effects.
In addition, by utilizing the CMS of Digital Agency, we have constructed the newly established Children and Families Agency website and archived the CIO portal. Based on this, we are now at the stage of determining future deployment methods.
I would like to ask the following. Regarding the development of standardization and unification, for example, regarding the development of the system, it was considered that the infrastructure, CMS, and development operation would all be carried out in Digital Agency. In addition, regarding the development of the practice, it was considered that the guidebook, parts, and examples would be shared.
Please show me the next slide. First, what we did on the Digital Agency website.
Next, please. First of all, as I mentioned earlier, I made a demonstration experiments on the Digital Agency website. There are various aspects, including costs, but we are working on improving accessibility, design system, and usability. I will explain them one by one from the following.
I would like to ask the following. First, from the perspective of ensuring the reusability and versatility of data. We have conducted a trial from the perspective of improving the reusability of data by separating the data itself, which is the content of the website, and reducing the cost of deploying to multiple sites by using open source software.
Next, please. It is a guarantee of accessibility. From the perspective of accessibility, we are building a website from the perspective of how to make it easier for people with disabilities to access information, such as support for color vision characteristics and support for voice reading software. This is what other teams in Digital Agency are doing, but it is based on the results of studies such as design and accessibility.
I would like to ask the following. For example, accessibility efforts are like this.
I would like to ask the next question. As with what I mentioned earlier, we are responding to the situation in design system while making it public as Digital Agency.
Please tell us the following. In this way, Digital Agency has been making public the compilation of various knowledge, and we have been working to use it as Digital Agency's website.
Please tell us the following. We are working on improving USABILITY. First, by introducing a access analysis function, we analyzed the behavior of users on the website. Then, based on that, we are working to improve it, and even after the improvement, we are working to rotate the cycle of making improvements based on the trends of new users.
For example, as a result of the access analysis, it has been found that the website in Digital Agency is accessed by far more people from smartphone than from PCs. In addition, when accessing from smartphone, it has been found that instead of searching the site after accessing the website in Digital Agency, a keyword search is performed using an external search site, and the necessary information is viewed on the corresponding page reached by the link from the result, and then the site is disconnected.
Furthermore, for example, it has been found that pages frequently viewed by public authorities employees or local government employees are often accessed from a computer during the daytime on weekdays, and pages visited by many individuals are relatively evenly accessed from smartphone, including on Saturdays and Sundays. Based on this trend, we have made an improvement by providing a menu for each user on the top page.
Please tell us the following. Other efforts. In the construction of the Children and Families Agency website, which I explained earlier, we worked to build the website by applying Digital Agency's CMS to Children and Families Agency. As a result, we were able to reduce development costs and reduce the resources needed for procurement. However, as Issue has mentioned, it was not always easy.
Please do the following. As an effort to archive old data, we are archiving the contents of the CIO portal site. This is because the website on the CMS is re-created as a collection of static HTML and published under the same URL as before, so that users can access it as before and the cost of operation can be reduced.
Please tell us the following. As a result of these efforts, first of all, the way of accessing the website in Issue has changed, and it is necessary to proceed with the construction of the website based on such circumstances. In addition, it has been revealed that Digital Agency needs a certain level of resources to be involved in the construction of the websites of other ministries and agencies, and the requirements for the websites of ministries and agencies vary, but Issue's feasibility is not necessarily high.
Please tell us the following. Regarding future efforts, in fiscal 2023, we have come to the conclusion that it is necessary to focus on the development of practices obtained from the improvement of Digital Agency's website.
In particular, by building a community, we will make efforts to solve Issue by sharing the method of building a website that is easy to access for the entire government and the method of how to realize the ease of access by which government information is properly delivered to people who need it.
Please tell us the following. This is the same as the previous slide, but as stated in "Fiscal 2023" on the upper right, we would like to work on the development of the practice as the center of our future business. We would like to ask for your guidance.
That's all.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , thank you very much for your kind explanation.
This matter has been discussed twice in the past at this meeting. As was the case with the remaining three cases, the persons in charge of each project in Digital Agency have provided very detailed explanations, and the questions and comments from the members have been answered very accurately and carefully. I believe that we have made considerable progress in our understanding.
However, since this is a public process, it cannot be helped if there are some parts that overlap with the previous discussion. For those who are listening to the live streaming today, I think there are some parts where the previous discussion is not visible, so I would like to discuss in a way that allows for some overlap.
As for the flow of the discussion, we have prepared a framework for deliberation as we did the last time and the last time before, and I would like you to discuss each of the policy objectives, target setting, approaches, stakeholders, systems, etc. However, since each of them is related to each other, it is not necessarily in line with this, so I would like to hear your frank opinions.
Then, I would like to hear the opinions of each member from the perspective of policy objectives. What do you think?
Mr. Shimada, please.

Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, . Thank you very much for your explanation.
This time, I have received five points of discussion. If my questions and comments were not limited to policy purposes, I would like to hear them from you where necessary. One point that I would like to confirm again or organize within myself is that I would like to remind you once again that the purpose of building a common government website, which you have established this time, is to be shared properly, and that the purpose is not to have to do it.
I think it is extremely necessary for the people of Japan to make it easier for people to use the websites of all ministries and agencies, and I think it is an important project. That is why I think it is more important for us to know what will make this project a great success, and to be able to see that you are working toward this.
It often happens that people are aware of what they cannot do and leave it as it is. Instead, I would like to ask you to do what you can do because you are doing such a wonderful thing, with a common understanding and purpose across ministries and agencies. First of all, I would like to convey this as one opinion. Therefore, I understand the purpose of the policy very well. Thank you very much.
That's all.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , I would like to ask for your response, Mr. Miyanishi. Before that, I would like to make some additional comments. In the first and second meetings, we made various points. What became very clear was that there was considerable debate over whether it was essential for the government to create a unified website. Rather, the direction of policy changed in the form of supporting various improvements for each website in each ministries and agencies.
The background for this is that the information provided differs from ministries and agencies to region, and there are differences in the people who use it, so we have been conducting discussions so far on the premise that it is not always necessary to unify the information. Including that, do you have any opinions from Counselor Miyanishi, who is in charge, on the points made by Mr. Shimada?

Councilor Miyanishi: .
First of all, regarding the word "unification" in the outline of the measures this time, Digital Agency has also been considering whether it will be easier for users to access by creating the same website. However, since the information handled on the websites of each ministry and agency is different and the people who use it are also different, it may be necessary to make it easier to see on the websites of each ministry and agency. Based on the points you pointed out this time, in the "digital society for the Realization of Priority plan" approved by the Cabinet in June this year, the emphasis of efforts was shifted from the direction of standardization and unification of government websites to the form of support for improving the transmission of government websites. Even though the information is different and the users are different, it will be easier for many people to see. For example, it will be easier for people with disabilities to access in various ways in the form of accessibility. We would like to advance efforts so that all ministries and agencies can firmly tackle these issues. We are currently working on these efforts.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Mr. Shimada, do you have any additional questions? Are you all right?

Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, , I'm fine. Thank you.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
In that case, do any other members have any questions about the policy objectives?
Mr. Iwasaki, please.

Member Iwasaki: Thank you very much, .
First of all, I have no particular objection to the policy objectives.
I would like to express my thoughts.
First of all, I think that through demonstration experiments and others, Issue has been grasped, and the form to be aimed at and the results have been clarified. If the unification and standardization of websites will be a burden on costs and resources, I think that it needs to be reviewed as an administrative project review. Regarding this matter, I believe that it was meaningful as a hypothetical validation that it was clearly shown that the study of the construction of a single website was not necessarily a good goal. In this regard, I would like to evaluate that Agile has achieved results without being bound by the infallibility of administration.
The important points are how to build a website from the users' point of view, the people's point of view, and the usability of employees, how to improve the quality of usability and accessibility, and how to consider usability, understandability, and visibility by attribute and generation.
In addition, I think that what websites should be like for the digitally disadvantaged, including the elderly and the disabled, is an extremely important perspective as part of the service to aim for a society in which no one is left behind.
We believe that it is important to continuously evaluate how accessibility, usability, etc. will be improved by continuously conducting such evaluations in the future. We would like you to collect data for repeating improvements each time a Issue becomes visible, and to run PDCA in a data-driven manner.
That's all. Thank you.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Now that you've said something quite supplementary, I'm not sure if Councillor Miyanishi has anything additional to say about this. If there's anything, would that be all right with you?

Councilor Miyanishi: .
The point you pointed out will be the center of the direction we are currently working on. There is a specialized team in Digital Agency, so we will work on it while incorporating such input, and we will also work on how to implement the data-driven PDCA cycle that you pointed out, while firmly cooperating with each ministry and agency.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Now, I would like to move on to the next issue. As Mr. Shimada pointed out earlier, I have divided the issues, but they are closely related to each other, so I do not mind if there is some overlap, so I would like you to speak freely.
The second is target setting. I would like to ask for the opinions of each member regarding this. Thank you.
Mr. Shimada, please.

Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, .
I'm glad you told Chairman Sato that it's okay to overlap a little. Thank you very much. I'm sorry if it overlaps.
Looking at the content that you showed me earlier, I believe that the setting of this target is done while involving and collaborating with each ministry and agency. By doing so, it is possible to reduce areas where there is overlap, and from the perspective of the reader, it is not necessarily the case that there is a unified document, but I believe that there are very good things, such as creating a sense of totality and making the roles of each ministry and agency more visible, because Mr. Digital Agency is involved in this project.
Therefore, when we are going to increase convenience while reducing overlapping points and costs, the term "community" was mentioned earlier, and I thought that you would call a place where you work together with people from ministries and agencies a community. First of all, I would like to know whether your understanding is correct, and if so, what kind of things are you taking care of when building a community? This is my first question.
The second point is that I think usability and convenience are the most important. At the same time, I think the appearance or UI is also important. I think it is important to have an appearance and structure that arouses interest and curiosity, such as being sorry if the words are a little bad, being too boring, not being excited, or being able to take a look at something. So, I would like to know how you will work on this while utilizing this community, and if there is any input from you.
That's all. Thank you.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
In response to Mr. Shimada's comments, Mr. Miyanishi, do you have any comments?

Councilor Miyanishi: , I would like to explain.
With regard to the community, first of all, as you pointed out, we are considering creating a community of people in charge of such websites in each ministry and agency. As I mentioned briefly in my explanation, although each ministry and agency believes that it is necessary to create a good website, it does not necessarily have specialized human resources, and we believe that the community will be useful in that we can complement each other while working with a certain number of such human resources in Digital Agency.
Among them, there was a discussion of costs, but by realizing common things in common, we can reduce the time and cost burden of each individual. In addition, from the viewpoint of convenience, I think that we can move in the same direction from the viewpoint of ease of use by sharing well the existence of highly convenient services and ways of using them.
In addition, since the users are different in each ministry and agency, it has become clear through various interviews that each ministry and agency has different views on how to ensure that information reaches the necessary targets. From this perspective, of course, it depends on the website of each ministry and agency, but I believe that we can consider what direction to move forward.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Mr. Shimada, do you have any additional comments on the response from Mr. Miyanishi? Is it all right?

Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, .
I would like to ask a little more about one thing. Please tell me if there is anything I can ask about how to connect and proceed at the current point in time, such as how to connect and proceed through groupware, how to connect and proceed through hybrid and real, and how to do so with a certain degree of speed, when a person from Digital Agency becomes a person in charge of each ministry and agency while supplementing human resources as necessary. Thank you very much.
I'm sorry, it has been added.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , what can I do for you?

Councilor Miyanishi: , First of all, regarding the frequency of meetings, we would like to consider how often to set up physical or online meetings while listening to the opinions of each ministry and agency. First of all, we would like to create an environment in which we can always communicate using tools. For example, if there are any good cases in such places without having to gather, we would like to communicate based on our experience as Digital Agency. In addition, Digital Agency would like to manage the community in a way that we can always refer to the knowledge obtained from the construction of the Digital Agency website and the Children and Families Agency website.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Do you have any comments from other members?
Mr. Mito, please.

Member Mito: .
I would like to ask a question in relation to the current community. According to the review sheet, the number of participating ministries and agencies in the community is five in the output section. Am I correct in understanding that it is five? I would like to know whether this number includes Digital Agency itself, and if possible, which ministries and agencies it is, or whether it is a target.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , can you answer the question just posed by Mr. Mito?

Councilor Miyanishi: shows the number of ministries and agencies participating in the community, and this does not include Digital Agency. We have set a target of having ministries and agencies other than Digital Agency participate in the community. At present, we have not explicitly decided which ministries and agencies will participate in the community, but we believe that the need will increase to a certain extent in terms of the timing of website updates, so we would like to have them participate in the community and create better websites one by one. As a result, in order to continuously improve the completed website, we would like to increase the number of ministries and agencies participating in the community in the sense that they will use the community well.

Member Mito: , I thought that the position of this community is very important. The most important thing is to set an example based on what kind of site Digital Agency will create. However, I think it is a very good initiative to select five ministries and agencies from among many ministries and agencies to exchange opinions about what kind of Issue other ministries and agencies have. I don't mind if I cannot answer right away, but I hope that you will decide on policies such as what criteria will be used to select ministries and agencies, whether to select ministries and agencies that are progressing or to deliberately select ministries and agencies that are lagging behind.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Would you like anything else?
I would like to add one point. So-called national or public websites have requirements that are quite different from those of private sector. Councilor Shimada explained the materials on page 22 and talked about archiving old data. In the case of such public websites, in a sense, the information from the sites is quite similar to official documents, so I think that archiving such information has requirements that are quite different from those of private sector. As Mr. Miyanishi said earlier, in the case of the national government, if we consider leaving some information, it is necessary to include quite static content. This is various information from each ministries and agencies, and there are users, so we need to balance these points and eventually archive it. I would like to see the promotion of archiving that is attractive to users.
Then, I would like to move on to the next issue. The third issue is the approach (policy measures). I would like to hear the members' opinions on this. Thank you very much.
I would like to add that at first, the so-called government was to create a unified website, but at present, it is rather to support the websites of each ministries and agencies, and I think that the national website is not necessarily advanced in terms of accessibility, so I think that the ministries and agencies will make considerable efforts in the future to provide support in a common manner. In that context, I would like to hear your opinions on what kind of approach this initiative should be. Thank you.
Mr. Shimada, please.

Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, .
While I was not specialized in this aspect at all, I was listening to you and I wanted to know more about the application of design system in demonstration experiments. I was shown the difference in appearance, but I understand that what kind of design system application had good points, and usability also evolved in demonstration experiments.
What I would like to ask is if there are any effects that have been seen through these activities in demonstration experiments, or if there is anything else that we would like to know. Thank you.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , Counselor, nice to meet you.

Councilor Miyanishi: .
In terms of accessibility, for example, there are people who have various color vision characteristics, such as which font type to use for a website, which character size to choose, between characters, or between one part and another, and comparison of color contrast Trust. design system has specified how to make color contrast easy for such people to see, and Digital Agency has actually implemented and used them on its website.
Some users have pointed out that Digital Agency's website still does not have enough functions, but some of them have said that design system is easy to use and easy to read. We will continue to listen to various users' voices to make it better.

Chair: Mr. Shimada Shimada, if you have anything to add to your answer, please.
Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, , I'm fine.
Chair: Mr. Shimada , are you all right?
How about other members?
Then, Mr. Mito, please.

Member Mito: , I don't know if I should ask a question here, but I have been inserting various keywords while looking at the Digital Agency website in smartphone. I'm sorry, but I think it is a little difficult to understand.
If you enter the search engines that we use in general, I think there are places where you can find a lot of pages that can reach a quite itchy point. Unfortunately, I don't think that has been done yet. Keywords can be entered, but the headline method, or if you know a certain amount, you may be able to follow the main item, the middle item, and the sub-item, but unfortunately, I don't think you can go to a major search site where you can find a row of headlines that seem to be related at once. I would like you to explain a little about whether this is the current situation even after demonstration experiments, or whether public office considers this to be the ideal form.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , Counselor, what do you think?

Councilor Miyanishi: , it was newly added to the Digital Agency website at the end of last year. For example, we thought about adding a function that allows you to search using the private sector search engine, but we realized it in the form of how to make it possible to search internally without issuing search keywords to the outside.
As you pointed out, compared to the private sector search engines, there is no fuzzy search function, and when searching, for example, it may be better to appear by date. We are aware that there are still improvements, so we would like to continue to work on improving this.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , is it all right with the answer you just gave?

Member Mito: Yes. Was it a AISAS that was mentioned in the preliminary study meeting? I think that the approach to public office is completely the same as the consumers' action of searching, taking action, and sharing. In the abstract, keywords such as usability and for people with disabilities appear, but I think that where they appear is kindness when searching and accessibility.
(Communication Failure)

Chair: Mr. Shimada , the sound has been cut off in the middle.

Member Mito: , where was it?

Chair: Mr. Shimada .

Member Mito: I understand.
I thought that the consumers' behavior and consumption behavior called AISAS, which was also mentioned in the study group, would be exactly the same for information access to public office, so I would like you to proceed with it. I think that you will understand the difference very much if you touch it specifically, rather than using the abstract word "usability", so I would like to thank you.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Is there anything else?
I would like to add that using search to get to the target page is, of course, in private sector and probably in public organizations, the worst thing is that you can't get to the information you have, and you can devise keywords and indexing based on the premise that there are a certain number of users who can be used for search. Another thing is that in the past few months, there have been cases where some public websites have been unable to reach past information due to changes in the web structure, so we must consider measures against such cases. If Digital Agency can provide guidance on such matters to other ministries and agencies, it will contribute to the continuous access to necessary information from the viewpoint of the people. Therefore, we must make improvements every day, including the opinions of Mr. Mito, so I would like to ask you to make various efforts as appropriate.
We have limited time, so in terms of the framework of the deliberations, there are two parts, stakeholders and the system. I would like to hear your opinions collectively. Therefore, I would like to hear the opinions of each member regarding the two parts, stakeholders and the system. Thank you.
Then, Mito member, please.

Member Mito: : In relation to what I just said, I would like to ask a follow-up question. Looking at the website of the Digi-cho, I think it is very good that you can see the general public and the people concerned in public office separately.
At the same time, there is a big difference in the level of understanding and prerequisite knowledge between when the general public enters and when public office enters, so I think there should be a difference in the construction of each. What do you think about that?

Chair: Mr. Shimada , Counselor, what do you think?

Councilor Miyanishi: First of all, as a background of dividing the validation for the general public at the entrance this time, from the perspective that the places that are often seen are different depending on who sees them, we have been working to arrange the sites that are often seen according to the background in an easy-to-understand manner. As you pointed out, there are differences in whether people who are familiar with them can see them or not, so we will continue to work on such areas while conducting various screenings on our website.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Is there anything else?
If I may add one point, the project initially went from building a unified government website to providing a mechanism or support to improve the websites of each ministries and agencies. In that case, when Digital Agency listens to questions and concerns from each ministries and agencies and makes various suggestions, there is a question as to whether the current system is sufficient.
As far as I know, I have heard that there are really only a few people in each ministries and agencies, and I think there are various ways of thinking about whether it is better to strengthen the system a little more when we support each region. I would like to point out this point. I think there is no way to answer if I pass this on to Counselor Miyanishi, so I will not pass it on, but I will add one point from the position of Chairman.
Is there anything else? For example, with regard to stakeholders, there is the word "community" mentioned earlier, and the person in charge of the web site of each unministries and agencies is a community, but I think there are various ways of thinking about it.
Mr. Iwasaki, please go ahead.

Member Iwasaki: Thank you very much, . I'm Iwasaki.
First of all, I completely agree with what Chairman Sato said about the system, and I believe that a certain level of resources will be necessary for this. I also believe that the Common Government Website forms the framework of e-government and digital government, so I believe that necessary resources should be secured, and as you mentioned communities earlier, I believe that each ministry and agency should have human resources to ensure such communities through cooperation between ministries and agencies. Therefore, I believe that each agency will be required to have a sufficient system.
Also, I forgot to mention earlier, but I would like to make a few comments about the website's connectivity. Is that okay?

Chair: Mr. Shimada , please.
Member Iwasaki: Thank you very much, In terms of connectivity and continuity, I think this is also related to the archiving of official documents that you pointed out earlier, but I think it is important to continuously disclose information in an easy-to-understand manner from the perspective of users who access the website, and to make sure that archived data can be used continuously. In this regard, I think it is commendable that the Government CIO Portal, which you mentioned earlier, has been improved from the point that it has been quite expensive until now.
One more point. The local government Institute of E-Government at Waseda University analyzes and publishes the global e-government ranking for digitally advanced countries every year. There are portal sites in 10 benchmarks. They evaluate the accuracy of information data, including search and learning functions, interactivity, interfaces, and technical convenience, as well as the disclosure of documents that require information disclosure even in the past. I think this is from the perspective of contributing to open data.
Thank you for your comments.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Is there anything else?

Councilor Mori: Thank you, . We are in the middle of our discussion, but I would like to ask the members to give us their final opinions based on the questions and discussions. I would like to hear your comments briefly based on the five points I indicated at the beginning, and Chairman Sato will summarize them. Thank you.

Chair: Mr. Shimada In that case, may I decide the order without asking? I am sorry that I always put Mr. Iwasaki first, but I would like to ask Mr. Iwasaki, then Mr. Shimada, and then Mr. Mito in that order. Thank you very much.

Member Iwasaki: Thank you very much, . Now, I would like to make a brief comment.
As I mentioned earlier, this government-wide website will be the framework of e-government. Mr. Digital Agency has already been working on various demonstration experiments, and his best practices will be further spread across ministries and agencies, so I would like you to continue to advance that. In addition, I would like to commend you for building the website with a view to a wide range of users, such as the elderly and people with disabilities, who are making great efforts. I believe that this is the first step toward the SDG concept of "a society in which no one is left behind," so I would like you to continue to advance this project. I would like you to report on the results at another place.
The above is a brief comment. Thank you.

Chair: Mr. Shimada , may I ask you a question?

Commissioner Shimada: Thank you very much, . Thank you very much for today.
I would like to make three final comments.
Demonstration experiments has already been made, so I think it is important to make concrete use of the learning from that. Which voices should be valued and what should be valued?
The second point is that I think it has meaning and significance in that Mr. Digital Agency is involved in it, so it is to maximize its value. In other words, if all people start listening to the voices of all people, it is important to listen to them, but I think it may be difficult to realize their value, so I want Mr. Digital Agency to value what he values.
In closing, I believe that there were many comments from the perspective of the users who will use it in today's discussion. At the same time, the perspectives of the people in charge of each ministry and agency who are involved and updated daily and provide information continuously are important, so I feel that the ease of use and update by those people is also important.
That's all for today. Thank you very much.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
In that case, Mr. Mito, please finish.

Member Mito: Thank you very much for your time today. I would like to make three brief remarks.
I believe that it is important for this policy to be concrete, and to that end, I think it is important to consider how Digital Agency himself will create the site and how he will expand it horizontally. In that context, I would like to repeat what I said earlier, but I would like you to consider the usability of the Digi-cho's search engine. The heading method and the tree method are still easy to use for those who understand the system, but I feel that it is necessary to devise ways to make it accessible to the general public.
Second, you said that you would like to create a community and prepare for horizontal expansion there. I believe that this community will also play a very important role, so I would like to pay attention to where the five ministries and agencies will be selected.
Finally, the users are divided into three categories: the general public, government and business operators, and news organizations. I think this is also a very good initiative. However, as I said earlier, I thought that the content would be different in style and content.
In addition, I am a little concerned about whether or not it will be possible to obtain the understanding of other ministries and agencies by dividing the information into users, and I would like to ask you to do so, but I would like to point out that Issue may come out in that area.
That's all.

Chair: Mr. Shimada .
Based on the valuable opinions I received from each member today, I have to summarize them. I was listening to your opinions while serving as the moderator, so there may be some omissions, but I would like to hear from you later, so I will briefly summarize your opinions.
I have just received the framework for each deliberation and the opinions of three other members, and I have received comments from Members Iwasaki and Shimada that we should make the best use of demonstration experiments. In addition, there were Members Iwasaki, Mito, and Shimada, but it is so-called accessibility. Public websites are used by various people, and I think many people have some kind of convenience. In such places, private sector is not necessarily well equipped, but I think it is important for Digital Agency to take the lead in providing guidance on accessibility as an organization that promotes national digital, and to expand it horizontally to each ministries and agencies.
In addition, Mr. Mito said that the search for Digital Agency is still insufficient. I think that is quite true, but rather than saying that it is insufficient, I think it is important to make various efforts and improve it in the future.
In addition, from the perspective of community, Mr. Mito has used the term community, and Mr. Shimada has pointed out that the perspective of users is important, but at the same time, it is easy for people in charge in each ministries and agencies to do their work. In particular, there has been a shift in policy this time, and it has been decided to support each ministries and agencies. I believe that how to create a community will be the key to whether or not it will be a good job in the end. I would like to emphasize that point.
In addition, although there is considerable overlap in the framework of deliberations, with regard to the policy objectives, I believe that the Government of Japan is considering establishing a unified government website, providing a mechanism to improve the website of each ministries and agencies, providing support in the form of a design system, and providing support in the form of consultations and responses on a fairly individual basis. I would like to ask you to proceed with these efforts.
In addition, as I mentioned earlier, in terms of accessibility, there are some areas where the private sector is not sufficient, so I am not sure if it is better to say more boldly, but I don't think that there will be a correct answer immediately after trying various forms, so I think it is important to improve by trying various forms.
Regarding the setting of goals, I would like to ask you to start with the question, "What is a community?" and finally proceed with the question, "Is a community important?"
In addition, I am not sure if I can say demonstration experiments, but I believe that Digital Agency has made various efforts to support the construction of the so-called Children and Families Agency website, and has already obtained various knowledge from it. Of course, there are circumstances depending on the ministries and agencies, so not all of them can be developed horizontally, but I think it is important to become a hub where what can be developed horizontally can be developed horizontally.
As for the approach, I think Dr. Mito gave me a lot of harsh advice about the web search, but as I said earlier, I think it is important to improve it.
Also, as Mr. Iwasaki pointed out, there is a part that I also mentioned. It is about archives. If the websites created by national organizations are positioned close to official documents, they must be kept permanently in a sense. Therefore, in order to do so, although it is related to the system, I think it is better to emphasize that we must build a system that can provide information over an extremely long period of time, including past information.
Although I did not explicitly hear the opinions of the stakeholders, in the individual opinions of each member earlier, Mr. Mito pointed out that we should consider the person in charge in each ministries and agencies and divide the users. At present, we are dividing the users into the general public, the non-general public, and the media. That is one way of thinking, and I would like you to proceed with this first, and if there are any problems, I would like you to correct your course.
I intend to summarize the opinions received from each member today, but if there are any omissions, I would like to ask you to point them out. Is that okay?
.
Now that I have made a rough summary, I would be grateful if you could reflect the opinions of today's members and proceed with better measures.
Is that okay? If you have anything to add, please let me know. Is that okay?
Now that my role is over, I would like to return the chairmanship to the secretariat. Thank you very much.

Councilor Mori: Thank you, .
Thank you very much to all the members for your active discussions.
The opinions summarized today will be published on the Digital Agency website at a later date.
Finally, Mr. Tomiyasu, Managing Director of the Digital Agency Strategic organization Group, would like to give an address. Thank you very much.

Director-General Tomiyasu: Thank you very much, Chairman Sato and everyone else.
In the first place, as was the case with today's discussion, and in discussions around March, the main point of this measure is whether a unified website will be built, or whether the original goal will be to improve convenience and reduce burden, and the emphasis will be on support for how to make the websites of each ministry work well. Basically, it is difficult for us to change the policy on our own, but we have received instructions and opinions on this matter, and I believe that we have been greatly supported.
In that sense, we will use this as a starting point to further brush up on our work. As for the points you pointed out today, I believe there are many points that we lack, so we will consider how to involve each ministry in the community, and it will be good for the people in charge of each ministry. As a premise, we will make use of demonstration experiments to become such a model, or we will consider the usability of the search engine itself, which you pointed out. In addition, I think there are various parts that we ourselves must do, such as the relationship with the archive, which is a common Issue for each ministry, and the relationship that we must make it easy to use. Based on the opinions you gave me today, I will make it a better project. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for your time today.

Councilor Mori: Thank you, .
Now, I would like to conclude the 2023 Digital Agency Policy Evaluation and Administrative Project Review (Disclosure Process). Thank you very much for your time today.

End