Digital Agency Bid, etc. Monitoring Committee (2nd)

Overview

Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2023
Location: Digital Agency Shared Conference Room
Name of Committee member (honorific title omitted, in alphabetical order):
- Ryota Kaneko, Professor, Faculty of Economics, Kokugakuin University
- Yoshiko Kawasawa, Representative Director, Social Policy Lab Co., Ltd.
- Yuichi Mochinaga Professor, Graduate School of Accounting, Waseda University
Period for deliberation: From April 1, 2022 to September 30, 2022
Number of extracted projects: 3 (236 target projects)
Number of proposals deliberated: 3

Materials

Proceedings Summary (PDF/416KB)

Summary of proceedings

Support for the creation of manuals related to Government Cloud (fiscal 2022)

Serial number 23-03-01
Contract method: General competitive contract (lowest price bidding method)
Counterparty: PwC Consulting LLC
Contract amount: 47,993,000 yen
Contract date: July 26, 2022

Comments and Questions	Answer
The business continues, but why is the contract period separated by a certain period?	The reason for the division is that there is a division of fiscal years because it is a single-year contract, and from April, it will be prioritized to respond to questions related to transition in the local local government, and from August, the project will be entrusted mainly to create a manual. In addition, Government Cloud is planning to invite new business operators to participate in the market every year, and the next time to invite business operators was considered to be in July.
I understand that it cannot be helped that there are additional business operators, and the division and business that were initially expected have changed slightly. However, it is not efficient. Therefore, from next fiscal year onwards, I would like you to consider the timing of public offering and ordering operations to be well linked.	All right.
In the qualifications, why is it that the post of General Manager, which is to supervise the whole, is set not only for the project manager? Since the management environment of the organization is properly evaluated and confirmed by the performance, financial statement, etc., it may be sufficient only for the project manager who practically operates the project. Probably, the unit price of the General Manager is high, and to what extent is the significance of further assigning the General Manager?	The support work this time has two main tasks, responding to questions and creating a manual, and the intention is to view them both as an integrated project and to appoint a person who can take responsibility for the results as the general manager.
I have the impression that this is the role of the project manager, but instead, there is a manager as a project for each of the acceptance of questions and creation of manuals, and on top of that.	Yes.
It is essential to understand the content of the summary of the operations carried out in fiscal 2021, which I think will be an obstacle for new suppliers to participate in the bidding, but that is dealt with in the reference materials. There are limited information and parts that are difficult to read in the reference, and I think there are cases where people give up participating in the bidding in the first place, but I would like you to be more specific about the ingenuity in that regard.	It is considered that there is no problem because all the parts completed so far, including the table of contents, are used as reference materials and the parts to be actually created as the scope of procurement are specifically presented.
How do you understand and analyze the fact that it was nevertheless a one party bid?	We understand that one of the reasons for the single-bidder bidding was that the timing of the bid opening was halfway, as we heard from the quotation vendor that it is difficult to allocate in-house resources from the middle of the month because the contract is usually made from April to March.
I think the problem of not being able to allocate personnel has occurred in various projects over the past few years. Is it difficult to predict in advance to some extent and adjust the timing?	From April, we responded to questions related to the transition of the local local government, and after August, we divided the procurement in the form of giving priority to the creation of a manual. Therefore, it was unavoidable that one of the procurement periods was delayed.
Did two parties submit the quotation?	One person.
There was another person as a viewer, but the quotation was not submitted.	Yes.
In the process of providing information and extending the period of public offering, there were at least some moves by businesses that showed interest in it. However, as a result, it seems that we have become one company.	Yes.
I understand that you conducted hearings with business operators who did not participate in the bidding. Were there any points that you noticed other than the allocation of internal resources?	For this time only, there was nothing special other than that because there were insufficient resources and it was impossible to assign people within the company.
I believe that the manual will be revised regularly in the future. Do you intend to entrust it to an external operator in the future? I believe that once the manual is created, it will become clear in the future operation where it will be made into a manual and where it will be insufficient. However, manual creation is relatively expensive in some parts, and if you properly base your know-how on it, there may be room for in-house production to some extent. How about efforts for future revisions?	To create a manual, various documents will be prepared from a procedure manual to a technical guide. To create a technical one, a person with advanced qualifications related to the cloud must be assigned, but it is difficult to secure such engineers in Digital Agency at the moment, so we are considering commissioning them for the time being. If there are engineers in the future and they can write inside, I would like to consider choosing them.
At present, I think it is an image to pull engineers from outside, but in the future, is it considered to train them in Digital Agency?	If we can train senior cloud architects who can create technical manuals and put them on the team, I think we can reduce this kind of outsourcing a little.
This case is based on general competitive bidding (lowest price), and I think that procurement is being conducted while enhancing competitiveness. However, from the perspective of the timing of public offering and securing personnel, although there are actually places where we would like the business operator to respond more flexibly, we will eliminate problems as much as possible so that the number of bidders and bidders increases as much as possible based on the situation of the business operator. By doing so, I think that the procurement method, which is usually improved, will be further improved, and I hope that you will continue to make efforts to improve it in the future.

Contract construction services related to the electronic certification for smartphones Issuance System (tentative name)

Serial number 23-03-02
Contract method: General competitive bidding contract (comprehensive evaluation bidding method)
Counterparty: NTT Data Corporation
Contract amount: 5,445,000,000 yen
Contract date: May 9, 2022

Comments and Questions	Answer
What are your thoughts on the digital divide and the provision of services to people who cannot use smartphone?	We are considering posting the operation method on the website in a way that even people who are not used to smartphone operation can understand.
If you don't want to own a smartphone, you can do it in a form other than smartphone, such as an administrative window. Overall, you are trying to provide a world that can be done in smartphone.	Yes.
Is it correct to understand that the estimated price and the contract amount were close, and the technical points and the price points of the comprehensive evaluation were far from each other?	Yes.
Are quotations collected from multiple parties prior to bidding?	We try to obtain quotations from more than one party before the Public Notice of Bidding. After the Public Notice of Bidding, we collect more detailed quotations again, but only one person submitted the quotation this time.
If only one party could obtain an estimate after the public notice as a result, there may be room for ingenuity, such as comparing the estimate with the estimate obtained before bidding.	The estimate before the public notice of bid is positioned as a reference material, and there are some rough parts in the content, so it is not basically used as a comparison target.
From the viewpoint of vendor lock-in, are efforts made to hear the reasons from business operators who downloaded written specifications but did not bid, and to use the reasons as a reference in the future?	We do not know the reason for not bidding, but we assume that the operator made a management decision that the bid would not be made.
In the end, I think it is a management decision, but if the reason is the description in the specifications, the time of ordering, or other factors that can be improved in the future ordering, I think it is meaningful to understand it properly, so I think it would be good to conduct a hearing in the future. In addition, regarding the content of the specifications, for example, if the content of the design needs to be revised, the bidding price must be set based on the assumption that such a situation will occur, so I think the price will be higher by taking into account the risk part. In addition, in the UX (User Experience) validation, evaluation is to be made based on the sense of scale, but I think the number of man-hours will change depending on the degree, so I think it is necessary to show the assumption as the ordering party in advance. I think there are naturally cases where we have no choice but to write in this way, but I think the basic policy should be to make the content as definite as possible and to respond by changing the contract if there is a change. I would like you to consider the writing style of the specifications so that the bidding will not be higher than expected due to the inclusion of risk. Finally, regarding the audit, I think it is a judgment that it has not been made as a result, but I think it is important to have a system that can be done properly.	I understand. In the future, we would like to respond while paying attention to such points in procurement.
Are there any particular provisions in the specifications that allow auditing and entry? Is there any pretext that entry may be made for inspection?	It is described in the specification.
In relation to security, in the midst of personal data protection and the like, there are cases in which we have not written down on the premise that we already have a relationship of trust with each other. As you said, we understand the relationship of trust with each other, but if we are in a position where we can place orders and we are in a position where personal data is extremely important, it is better to write down clearly. Aside from whether or not we actually go to the audit, I thought it would be better to have the authority to go, so I just mentioned it. I have the impression that it is a waste of time among multiple business operators who have downloaded the specifications. Since there are so many people who have expressed interest, I would like to hear from those who did not make a bid. At the same time, I think it is certainly difficult to decide how much to write in the specifications, but I think it should be assumed in the order form first, including the sense of scale. This requires constant effort, and I think it is quite difficult to do everything, but I think it is desirable to make the details of the specifications as high as possible so that they can be done a little. In addition, there was a talk about the audit, but I think it will lead to the future if we clarify the relationship between the bidding business operator and Digital Agency by having Digital Agency fulfill its responsibility as the ordering party, whether or not it is entrusted, and having such authority. I would like you to consider it.

Establishment and operation of the My Number Call Center

Serial Number 2023-03-03
Contract method: Discretionary contract
Counterparty: FUJISOFT SERVICE BUREAU INCORPORATED
Contract amount: 199,584,617 yen
Contract date: April 1, 2022

Comments and Questions	Answer
I had the impression that the eligibility requirements were strict. As you said, I can understand that it can be operated efficiently by asking a person with continuous performance, but if the requirements are narrowed down to a call center related to My Number System, I think the possibilities of the operator will be narrowed. I would like you to continue to consider to what extent the requirements should be set in the future.	We believe that the skills of our staff will improve, but it will take some time for them to improve their skills, so we wanted to collect highly skilled and experienced people from the beginning so that we could provide good services from the beginning. On the other hand, when the first notification card was issued, municipalities also had My Number-related call centers, so there were many people with experience, and even applications for My Number-related call center experience attracted a certain number of people, but there were public comments and opinions from estimation operators that it is difficult to collect them at present. In response to this, it is true that the requirements were eased for new businesses that need to attract many people.
The target is a completion rate of 90% or more within the center, but the explanation was that difficult contents were not excluded. I think that this is only a target and that it is operated based on the fact that it is difficult to remove the contents that are difficult to answer. If this target value is to be operated a little more strictly, I think it will be harsh on business operators if they do not respond properly in a form that removes the difficult answers. What do you think?	We want to prevent complaints from being transferred. We aim to reduce the transfer rate by requiring operators to answer as much as possible even if the content is not directly related. If we exclude irrelevant content, it will be a problem if it seems that we do not need to answer so much, so we are using the current operation.
If you always have the maximum number of people during peak hours, on the other hand, there are cases where the day is over just by sitting down without receiving a call, and only the cost increases. What kind of efforts are you making toward leveling off?	It is understood that inquiries will be concentrated in cases such as when citizens receive benefits, but it is difficult to estimate how much. While it is difficult to predict completely, the number of incoming calls is estimated based on past results and experience, and while the minimum number of personnel is secured, if the number of incoming calls increases and it is judged that it is impossible to respond, the number of personnel is increased. We request that business operators have a system in which they can prepare people when they need them, but there are circumstances in which they must find people in advance and hire them for a certain period of time. In the future, it will be easier to estimate to some extent if results are accumulated, and we believe that leveling will proceed.
In development services, there are variations in estimates such as man-hours, so I think there are many cases where there is a difference between the estimated price and the actual price. It seems that the call center can roughly read the amount from the past bidding results, but I would like to know about the difference between the estimated price and the contract price.	It is a management decision of the successful bidder. Isn't it a discount at the time of bidding in order to make a successful bid?
I heard that there were more such cases in the past than now, but now, there is a labor shortage everywhere, and even in the countryside, it is difficult to set up a new call center, and I think that the situation in which orders cannot be received continues. Even in such a situation, there are cases where bids are made at a low price.	I understand that it is a part of the business operator's strategy.
Is it difficult to place an order with the J-LIS call center?	In terms of My Number, Issue of the card is shared with Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, utilization of the card is shared with Digital Agency, and J-LIS is shared with local government.
I can understand it, but from the perspective of the consulter, it would be more convenient to have a single call center, and in addition, there would be no need to consider the construction of a network. I heard that there had already been such a story, but from the perspective of the outside, I felt that we would like to consider a joint call center or a single call center.
Another point is the number of seats at the call center. I thought that was managed very well. On the other hand, looking at the document, I am a little worried about whether it is a specification that requires a flexible system construction, such as increasing or decreasing the number of seats within the contract amount for the fiscal year, up to the amount. If I do not write down the current management method in this specification, I think that I will not be able to respond well to the next time something happens or I am transferred. What do you think about that?	You are right. As the basis of the specifications, it is stated that the number of seats will be determined after consultation with the operator as an exceptional case, and it is recognized that there is such an obligation.
If this is to be done by comprehensive evaluation, we would like to evaluate it in addition to the evaluation items, or allow business operators to make bids after considering the possibility, but I understand that there is a sentence in it. In the future, I would like to consider a written specification or an evaluation method that will make it work.	If I specify it, I am concerned that it will be considered as if there is no further possibility. In addition, if I do not explain with the normal value described and request an estimate, the amount may be dispersed.
I think you are right, but for example, it would be different just by attaching the results of the past two years and the number of seats.	It is described in the specifications. The number of calls and replies received in the past two to three years is included as the actual number.
What I felt wonderful about receiving your answer now is that in order to prevent public office from being passed around, we aim to complete the process within the center. In the situation where the government's policies are not decided, advance information is not received, and we are forced to take urgent action and cannot read the incoming calls, procurement and the business operators are working on the operation, while taking pains not to appear in the Digital Agency specifications. However, even so, we will make it as transparent as possible, and I think the situation will change from August to the procurement of the fiscal year, so we will improve it as much as possible in the future. In addition, what I was very concerned about was that based on the communication with the business operators and the experience of the past fiscal years, I think that you are performing extremely excellent on-site work, but the excellence of this work could be personal. In addition, I strongly felt during this communication that it is very difficult to pass on to your successor. I understand that you are required to respond in an extremely fluid manner and that you had to proceed with a discretionary contract with the cooperation of the business operators. However, if you could incorporate the current know-how into the next procurement specifications as much as possible and make it more transparent, I think it will be a great procurement in the future. I would be grateful if you could take over the know-how and make it more transparent. Overall, as this is the second round, I understand that following the first round, one party bidding and voluntary bidding, each unique situation is understood and greatly devised. However, on the other hand, in the case of smartphone, I think it has become clear that there have been no hearings even though there are business operators who have downloaded it, and that the continued ingenuity and mechanism can be further enhanced in operation. Therefore, I would like you to continue to make the bidding procedure effective and efficient, and to make it more transparent throughout the whole.