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Digital Extraordinary Administrative Advisory Committee Working Group (4th)

Overview

  • Date and time: Thursday, March 10, 2022 (2022) from 16:00 to 18:00
  • Location: Online
  • Agenda:
    1. Opening
    2. Proceedings
      1. Hearing from related ministries and agencies about visual inspection regulation
      2. Exchange of opinions
    3. Adjournment

Materials

Related Information

Minutes, etc.

Date

Thursday, March 10, 2022 (2022), from 16:00 to 18:00

Location

Online Meetings

Attendees

Chairman

  • Fumiaki Kobayashi, Senior Vice-

Members

  • Junji Annen (Attorney-at-law, Professor of the Graduate School of Law
  • Tatsuhiko Inadani (Professor, Graduate School of Law, Kyoto University)
  • Katsuya Uenoyama (President of PKSHA Technology, Inc.)
  • Takafumi Ochiai (Attorney at law, Atsumi & Sakai, Foreign Law Joint Enterprise)
  • Katsunori Nemoto (Senior Managing Director, Japan Business Federation)
  • Masakazu Masushima (Attorney-at-Law, Mori Hamada & Matsumoto)

Minutes

Secretariat (Matsuda): Thank you very much for your attention, Mr. . As the time has come, we will be holding the fourth meeting of the "Digital Extraordinary Administrative Advisory Committee Working Group." I look forward to working with you today.

Members and participants are also participating online today. I have heard that Mr. Sugawara will be absent today and Mr. Ochiai will be participating in the meeting from the middle of the meeting.

First of all, I would like to ask Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi, who is the chair of this working group, to say a few words before the meeting. Thank you very much.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, , Members of the Secretariat, I would like to ask for your cooperation today.
Members of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism are also participating, but first, I would like to make an address for members.

For about two weeks from today, I would like to hold four working group meetings with each ministry and agency in a row and discuss the review policy intensively.

Today, with regard to the visual inspection regulation in particular, I would like to hear from the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, the Ministry of the Environment, and Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications about whether it is possible to review the regulation system in a cross-sectional manner by using digital technology, and I would like to advance discussions by asking Issue and points of contention.

The Working Group would like to organize the direction of the review together to see if we can propose a good solution based on the technology of the technology company that we interviewed last time and the excellent case of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, which we reviewed in advance.

What is important is that in this Working Group, all members, including myself, would like to share wisdom on how to solve the problems of Issue and background that each ministry and agency has, rather than forcing each ministry and agency to review them unilaterally. In the end, it is important to lead to the creation of a momentum for each ministry and agency to review their own rules autonomously, and we would like to discuss with each ministry and agency while always being aware of this point. We would appreciate your cooperation.

After sharing this with everyone, I would like to send a message to the people of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.
Today, I would like to thank all of you from the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism for taking the time to participate. The other day, I learned about a very excellent initiative, the Technology Catalog, and I thought that this is a sample of the cross-sectional reform of the Local Government Council. I would like to continue to receive advice from you, and I believe that this time, we will be leading the way and reviewing the specifications of this country from the bottom up, and my best request is that you will be a leader who involves all ministries and agencies and run together.

We will discuss today that we want to make it possible to carry out visual inspection by other means as much as possible using new technologies, but I think that there are many things that you yourself think should be reviewed soon, as the world has changed so much.

However, I believe that some of these issues are difficult to overcome, such as providing explanations to the public and ensuring safety. I would like you to sincerely discuss these issues and what kind of support we can provide to overcome them. For example, in terms of budget and other details, I believe it will be difficult for us to amend individual laws to correct the wording. Therefore, although we have proposed a package law, I would like you to share various matters on a sincere basis and find places where we can overcome them together.

If we can overcome this together, I believe that the various measures being taken by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism can be made more impactful and effective. I would like to thank you very much for your cooperation today.

Secretariat (Matsuda): Thank you very much for your attention, Mr. . I would now like to begin today's proceedings. With regard to the following proceedings, I would like to ask Mr. Annen, Vice Chairman.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, . Nice to meet you.
Today, there are four items on the agenda of the fourth meeting. In the first half, we will have a hearing on 1. Inspection and patrol of infrastructure, 2. visual inspection regulation in intermediate and completion inspections of buildings, etc. In the second half, we will have a hearing on 3. Materials carried into waste treatment and storage facilities, 4. visual inspection regulation in field surveys of fixed assets. We plan to have a hearing on these four items.

I would like to start the hearing right away. At this working group meeting, I would like to ask Counselor Takamatsu, who has been directly communicating with each ministry and agency, about the proceedings at the time of the announcement by each ministry and agency.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister visual inspection regulation. Nice to meet you.

Today, we will discuss the four regulation, and each public office will participate in turn. Please understand that there will be cases where we will communicate to each ministry again in each meeting.

First, I would like to talk about the visual inspection regulation in terms of infrastructure inspections and patrols. We have seen leading efforts in road maintenance and management so far, but I think the issues will be whether the same horizontal deployment can be made for other infrastructure and what points need to be paid attention to among various types of infrastructure.

In addition, of the three types of visual inspection regulation that I showed you earlier, two types of regulation are included: inspections to determine compliance with certain standards and patrols to conduct monitoring activities.

At the beginning, I would like two explanations. First of all, Mr. Masahiko Naito, Director of the River Environmental Division, Water Management and Land Conservation Bureau, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, would like to explain about inspections and patrols related to rivers and dams.

Water Management and Land Conservation Bureau, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism: Regarding the image of River Environmental Division of the Water Management and National Land Conservation Bureau of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. I would like to show you about the management of rivers and dams. First of all, regarding the patrol and inspection of rivers and dams, the River Act states that it is mandatory to do so, and the Cabinet Order states that it is a technical standard, but it stipulates that appropriate methods or necessary measures will be taken at an appropriate time, and the Ministerial Ordinance states that facilities subject to law inspections and records will be maintained.

As for the specific method, I wrote a box in pink at the bottom of the document. There is an inspection and evaluation guideline for river management facilities such as levees and river channels, and in fact, various new technologies have been introduced at the site. However, this guideline still has the wording "Inspection is based on visual inspection inspection."

In addition, although specific examples were provided in the Reference Materials, it is difficult to create an image only with examples in Japanese, so I believe that you pointed out that there is room for improvement in that regard.

Page 2, please. First of all, regarding the current status of patrol and inspection of rivers, patrol, which is shown in three representative photos above, is to confirm the status of river management facilities and the river itself. The purpose is to comprehensively grasp the general status of the facilities, as well as the status of illegal occupation of river space, illegal dumping into river space, the growth of alien species, and water pollution. The basic purpose is to grasp visually in most cases, but in some cases, it is possible to grasp by odor, so until now, human inspection has been the main method of inspecting the entire system.

Second, regarding the inspection, I have three photos below. The leftmost part of the lower row is the inspection of the embankment. The embankment is a hybrid structure in a sense in the form of covering part of the earth embankment with concrete blocks, or covering it with grass and vegetation as shown here. I forgot to write the extension, but the current situation is that this embankment is 56000 kilometers in the whole country and under the control of the national and prefectural governments.

In the middle, it shows the situation of a sluice or sluice. There is a facility like this, where a concrete structure like this exists to drain into a river or take in water from a river.

What is on the far right side of the lower row is called a drainage pump station. It is a drainage pump station for draining water collected from a tributary river or waterway or sewage system into a river in the event of a flood. There are these facilities.

Including dams, there are approximately 24000 of these facilities in the country and prefectures.
Page 3, please. In this way, it is necessary to patrol and inspect a very long or large number of infrastructures, so we are making good use of the latest technology in our river efforts.

As it is written on the left side, it is only a cross section of maintenance and management, but similar data is used for river development, such as embankment development and river development to improve flood control functions by excavating rivers, and is used for various studies, so we have three dimensional data and use it in common. Today, I would like to explain from the viewpoint of maintenance and management.

In fact, as you can see in the second row on the left, we have already started to use images using UAVs and the like. In the case of rivers, the inside of banks and rivers have extremely complex shapes, so we have been working on capturing data in three dimensions using laser scanners.

The acquisition of this data is well under way, but the successful use of it will be Issue in the future. If you look at the slightly light gray box on the right, we used to handle maps in the form of cross-sectional survey or plane survey, but now, as shown in the picture, we are using data generated from three dimensional point cloud data.

As a result, on the left side of the lower row in the gray box, first of all, the state of the accumulation of earth and sand in the river is calculated using the data. As a result, the state of the blockage of the river can be immediately found, so if necessary, excavation should be carried out to prepare for flooding.

In addition, on the right side of it, there is a colored diagram of the top of the embankment. As I mentioned earlier, the embankment is basically a dirt embankment covered with concrete or covered with grass, so capturing its deformation is an important perspective for visual inspection inspection. By taking the difference between two times, the largest difference is displayed in a warm color system, and by capturing the state of swelling or depression, temporary diagnosis is performed, so we are actually using it to capture the difference. This is a technology that will be needed in the future.

From the perspective of making good use of these technologies, please see the next four pages. Because various combinations of technologies are necessary, if you look at the column on the right, in the form of the Innovative River Technology Project, it is written as a crisis-management type water level gauge, but it is written as a water level gauge specialized in grasping only during floods, a drones that can fly even in all-weather or inclement weather, and a drones equipped with a laser scanner for land and mid-water. In development, the technology of the drones itself and the technology of the sensor are set by the public office side as an opportunity for companies with elemental technologies to gather, as written in the middle, and joint research development has been promoted while mutual exchange of opinions.

The target was the one I explained on the right, and this is the fifth part of it. At the bottom, we are currently working on automatic abnormal location extraction using image analysis technology.

Next, please turn to page 5. Let me introduce a representative one. As I said at the beginning, the left side is a crisis-management type water level meter, which can measure only floods. In short, river water level observation requires both the normal water level, which is related to power generation, the use of water supply, and the use of agricultural water, and the water level, such as whether or not it exceeds the embankment at the time of flood. Therefore, we usually select a place where the whole can be measured continuously from low water to high water, and install equipment. However, in this case, it is a very versatile equipment, so the cost is high.

In addition, information on where water overflows in the event of a flood cannot be obtained only from the water levels at a limited number of locations. For example, development of water level meters that detect flooding only, and communication only at that time, or operation only in the event of a flood, batteries and communication technologies that were conventionally connected permanently by optical fibers are considered, including communication. The cost is about 1 million yen per location, which is about one tenth of the conventional cost. Development has advanced not only in the national government but also in prefectural governments.

In the middle, it is an all-weather drones. When there is a flood, the river is affected by a low-pressure system. So, we are doing an all-weather drones so that we can operate even in the wind is strong and it rains a little.

On the far right, we have been using a laser scanner. Conventionally, a large laser scanner mounted on an aircraft collects data once a year or once every few years. If this laser is mounted on a drones, the frequency of operation can be increased. In addition, when a green laser is used, unlike a red laser, which conventionally has been evaluated only on land, it can simultaneously scan underwater. A drones equipped with a green laser. In the past, a green laser scanner was large enough to be mounted on an aircraft, but since it can be loaded on a drones, it is actually loaded on a ship, and of course, large-scale surveys are conducted by aerial surveys. We are now working to utilize such a scanner for weekly or monthly surveys, and this has been put into practical use.

Moving on to page 6, image analysis. Earlier, it has become possible to obtain three dimensional data using drones and the like, particularly in areas under national control. Instead of patrolling by human eyes, as shown below, the status of earth and sand accumulated by floods and the like, the shape of the embankment, and as written on the right side of the lower row, if there is a protrusion formed in a place where there was no garbage, whether it is garbage or illegal dumping of earth and sand, will be temporarily diagnosed. First of all, AI will be used to grasp it, and human investigation will be conducted only in the necessary places. We hope to bring it to that point someday, and we are just now advancing this.

For dams, see the next page 7. For concrete structures, the technology is almost the same as that introduced for roads, so it does not mean that another technology is necessary because it is a river. For dams, it is possible to acquire the same method as the road technology for the levee body part that is not under water but is normally located.

What is special about dams is that the inside of the reservoir must be examined, and the dam levee body must be examined even if it is inside the reservoir. Original technology will be necessary there, so we have actually started to use robots to acquire underwater images. A manual was prepared in February 2019, and it has begun to be used as usual for dams managed by the national government and dams managed by the Water Agency. It is necessary to spread this to all dams managed by prefectural governments.

If I show you the flow like I just told you, it is the next page 8.
It was in 2013 that the River Act legislated that inspections must be carried out. Since then, we have been introducing the technologies I have described so far in order to carry out inspections in a general-purpose manner as much as possible, not only by using a method that does not rely on human beings, but also by using a method that does not rely on human beings, who have excellent technical skills, to evaluate what we thought we had to do by human beings.

In particular, the three dimensional point cloud survey using an aerial laser that I mentioned earlier, which can of course be used in drones, was put into practical use in 2018. The inspection using a robot that I mentioned earlier in the water was also put into practical use in 2019.

Regarding the guidelines I mentioned at the beginning, we have already done it, but we have not reviewed the text of the guidelines itself. Therefore, we will review it, and it is enclosed in red in the upper column.

At the same time, we would like to create a catalog of specific technologies that have been published in the manuals that we have used so far and technologies that can be installed in the future, referring to examples of roads that are ahead of visual inspection this fiscal year. We would like to create a catalog that can list all the technologies, including individual manuals, that can be used in place of Hokkaido.

As for the patrol of image analysis that I mentioned earlier, we created the first guidelines in March 2004, and we have started to work on it on a trial basis under direct control. Therefore, as for image analysis, although it is still the case of testing, we would like to continue the work of adding it to the catalog so that it can be used universally someday. That is all for rivers and dams.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . Next, Mr. Hiroshi Kano, Director of the Green Space Environment Office, Park Green Space and Landscape Division, Urban Affairs Bureau, and Mr. Satoshi Funakubo, Coordinator of the Park and Green Space Project, would like to explain the inspection and patrol related to urban parks and citizen's green spaces.

I am Funakubo of the I am Kano, Director of the Green Space and Environment Office, Parks, Greenery and Landscape Division, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. Now, I would like to begin my explanation. It is "

On page 1, first of all, as an overview of the system, I would like to explain what urban parks and civic green spaces are like.
There are 110,000 urban parks in Japan, which is a large number of facilities. Among them, standards have been established for patrolling and inspection from the viewpoint of further thorough efforts to ensure safety, such as the prevention of accidents due to the deterioration of facilities.

Similarly, citizen's green space, which is marked with * at the bottom, is basically not managed by a public organization. private business and an NPO have set up vacant land as green space for the use of area residents in a form similar to a park. There are about 10 places nationwide, and these are set as one city park and citizen's green space.

As a corresponding article, Article 10 of the Enforcement Order of the Urban Parks Act is enclosed at the bottom. Since citizen's green areas are similar to urban parks, they are basically in the form of urban parks and are shown in parentheses. Basically, if I were to explain it in the context of urban parks, it is written in the first place, and it is stated that urban parks should be inspected at an appropriate time. In addition, as mentioned in 2., inspection of urban parks should be conducted by visual inspection at an appropriate time or by other appropriate methods in consideration of the structure, etc.

In addition, as stated below, Article 3-2 of the Ordinance for Enforcement of the Civil Code of Japan provides for the frequency of such visits to be once a year in law.

Please look at page 2. The current situation is that the government has established various safety guidelines for the inspections I just talked about. On the right side, there are urban park facilities, and I think you can see the blue part. There are playground equipment, pools, elevators, and elevators. In addition, since it is a park facility, there are various facilities inside the park. I have attached them as reference materials on page 5. This is very technical, but for example, planting and lawns are also treated as park facilities. In addition, since it is a rest facility, it is a bench, as I talked about, a game facility, a swing, and a slide. In addition, since it is an exercise facility, it is a baseball stadium, a library, and various facilities are mixed together. This is the form of the park.

Returning to page 2, on the right side of the page, we have created five guidelines for parks. They are written in red, but one is "Guidelines for Ensuring Safety of Playground Equipment in Urban Parks" for playground equipment, which is also used by children. For pools, we have created safety standards, including those of other ministries and agencies and the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology. "Standard Safety Guidelines for Pools", which is on the far right, "Guidelines for Safety Inspection of Park Facilities" for other facilities. On the far right below, in yellow, "Guidelines for Inspection and Diagnosis of Trees in Urban Parks" for parks, which are mainly trees. In addition, as written in gray, we have created guidelines for planning to extend the life of park facilities in general.

The blue part on the left is an example of description (excerpt) in the Guidelines. In the larger part, one is to conduct daily inspections thoroughly. In this, I am writing that we will check by seeing "mainly by patrolling."

At ②, there is a periodic inspection. Unlike the so-called daily inspection, this is a more detailed inspection than the daily inspection by direct visual inspection, sounding, or using equipment every certain period of time. We have established a rule.

In the case of city parks, most of them are installed by public organizations, so while conducting necessary inspections, on the right side, I think it will be divided into those operated by employees of public organizations themselves and those operated by private business by entrustment, etc.

What is shown in the picture is an example of Yokohama City, but there are quite a few cases where we have to respond immediately at the site. For example, when it is raining and the drainage is bad, we have to go there and work directly on the spot, or prohibit entry, or as shown in the picture on the right, if the playground equipment is dangerous, we have to immediately surround it and make it unusable.

On page 3. This is a preliminary initiative. National parks, which are referred to as direct control parks, are implementing AI-based technologies to predict rotten parts of trees and using drones to reduce management. This is an example of a pilot project.

It is page 4. We also recognize that it is necessary to promote the introduction of digital technology in patrolling and inspecting urban parks from the viewpoint of efficiency and sophistication of business.

However, on the other hand, I believe that there are still some Issue in the general-purpose use of technology. As I mentioned earlier, there are a wide variety of park facilities, and each park is quite custom-made, so that is the point of view. In addition, as I mentioned earlier, what kind of trees and planting are the characteristics of parks? The point of view of so-called nurturing is also necessary, so that is the point of Issue. In addition, since it is a park, children can touch it directly, and since there are such facilities, more careful inspection will be necessary, so that immediate response is required depending on the status of inspection as I mentioned earlier.

In addition, many public organizations are doing various things while budgets are extremely tight, so I think it is necessary to respond to the actual conditions of the area, such as budgets, costs, and human resources, when introducing it.

In terms of the introduction schedule, first of all, it is necessary to explore what kind of digital technologies there are in various ways, so it is written that it is necessary to understand new technologies, etc., and whether it can be applied to various parks, validation of such technologies, etc., and finally, I would like to reflect them in the technical guidelines.

Basically, in that sense, our current stage is still Phase 1, and I think we will aim for Phase 2, but if we have technology that can be used immediately, of course, some facilities will be able to do Phase 3.

Compared to roads and rivers, there are very small facilities and large parks, and there are various facilities in them, so it is difficult to form one form. However, from the perspective of efficiency and sophistication of business, I think it is necessary for us to actively promote them, and I would like to work on them from where we can. That is all.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister We would like to have a Q & A session on these two matters. If you have any opinions or questions, please let us know. Dr. Annen, I would like to ask you.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, . As you pointed out, city parks are relatively small and there are many things in them, so I think it will be difficult to fully automate them. For example, there are parks that are close to nature, mainly consisting of trees, lawns, ponds, etc., and there are also Starbucks and movie theaters, which are very artificial, I think. Regarding the former, is there a technological development that can somehow achieve Phase 3, full automation?

I am Funakubo of the First of all, since plants are the main component, while plants are grown, branches of trees are broken due to aging, which leads to accidents, and in the present form, such things are judged by touching and hitting, so if possible, I would like to use digital technology to reduce labor in such parts.

On the other hand, first of all, we have to look for whether there are such technologies or not, and if there are such technologies, we would like to actively introduce them, but we would like to have time to look into them first, and some time to check whether they can be really used in validation, including the budget, but on the other hand, we would like to introduce them in Issue, and on the other hand, there is Issue.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, We need to ask you to be more businesslike about how long it will take. Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister , please.

Member Inadani: Thank you, . Thank you very much for your very detailed report today. It was very informative to know that the efforts of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism are very advanced and positive.

I would like to make a comment on one point that is slightly related to Dr. Ahn's talk earlier and another point that is related to the whole.

When I heard about the management of the park, one thing I thought was whether it would be possible to do something like a simulation. In the first place, I am interested in what the Cloud Park Ledger is. If it becomes possible to understand what is in the park and its materials, will such information be input to the digital twin in the park when the digital twin is created, and will it be possible to perform a simulation? For example, will it be possible to obtain information that the playground equipment is about to become dangerous? If so, I thought that the management would be easier and the cost required for patrolling would be reduced. So, I would like to ask what your thoughts are on this matter and how you will tackle it.

The other thing is that it is related to the whole, but cataloging is being advanced very much, and horizontal development of rivers and the development of various technologies are being considered, so I would like to comment on a way to take it one step further. In particular, in this case, Mr. local governments is involved, so I think there was talk that budget measures would be a problem, but in that regard, I felt that a method like anchor tenancy could not be taken. In other words, if technologies that are likely to be core technologies are understood to some extent and horizontal development is necessary, I think it is necessary to adopt them more and more to increase the range of technologies that can be used, or to increase the number of people who can use them.

I think one of the things that companies were told quite a lot in the last hearing was that there was no market and it was difficult to take a implementation. As a result, technology cannot be firmly established in society. In that case, if a method like anchor tenancy is introduced, Mr. local governments and Mr. government agency will make a procurement in a planned manner to some extent, so one side will make a commitment and promote DX. If there is a budget, there will be an incentive to make a commitment. On the other hand, from the perspective of business operators, if there is a story that the market does not expand easily, so it is difficult to convert, and it is difficult to accumulate data, that can also be solved.

In other words, it may be one step ahead of the cataloging that is being advanced, but if such a method is considered, I believe that it will be carried out by the entire country, centered on Digital Agency, rather than by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism alone, and I thought that the efforts that are being made now will be further accelerated and will be very fruitful. This is my other question.
That's all from me.

I am Funakubo of the Parks, Greenery and Landscape Division of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and
First of all, I would like to ask the first question from the Park. It is related to simulation. Frankly speaking, I think it is immediately difficult to classify and predict.

Because parks range from small to very large, and as I mentioned earlier, there are a variety of park facilities, so whether or not prediction technology can be applied uniformly or simulation-based depends on how far AI will evolve, to be honest, but I think it will be difficult at once.

As I mentioned a little while ago, I would like to investigate various technologies that can be applied to parks, including those mentioned above. In this context, I would like to see various things that can be addressed.

In addition, in some facilities, if we input the number of years of use and how they are used to some extent, it is possible to think about exchanging facilities preventively in advance for a certain number of years, but I think my frank opinion is that it is quite difficult to do it in the simulation that you pointed out.

The second topic, cataloguing, is the same as the current topic. We are still groping about what kind of technology we can introduce into the park. I think we will have to consider cataloguing immediately and further in the future. However, it is frankly difficult to do it alone in the park under the current situation. That is all.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Also, with regard to the issue of anchor tenancy, I believe it will be necessary to consider what can be done, including the budget and procurement, but Digital Agency would like to consider the matter going forward.

Member Inadani: Thank you, .

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister , please.

Member Uenoyama: Thank you for making a very specific summary in the form of . Since you have already made various technical validation, I would like to discuss technical comments later. I have one question.

When we formulate inspection, we input some kind of image and classify something from it. If we try to do it with technology, we do that, but probabilistic inference, pattern recognition, or what I want to say is that it basically has the technical characteristic of being less than 100 in terms of accuracy. So, what I think is important as a contextual issue in regulatory reform is that I think it is necessary to record to some extent the evaluation of inspections that are currently being conducted by people, such as the coverage, frequency, and quality. If the answer is that there is no perfect technology when we seek perfection without talking about how good it is by comparison, I would like to ask how the current inspection process is recorded and evaluated. In particular, I would like to ask about not only the frequency and coverage, but also the quality, which I may have already answered because I did not answer last time.

Water Management and Land Conservation Bureau, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism: Regarding the image of inspections is, first of all, for rivers under national management, inspections are conducted before the flood season in June to confirm that they have a certain level of function. Then, inspections are conducted before the typhoon season, in August, and in September. Inspections are conducted in August and September because floods occur during the rainy season, so inspections are conducted immediately after one relatively large flood to check whether there are any changes caused by it. In addition, changes can also be caused by earthquake ground motion, so for example, after an earthquake with a seismic intensity of 5 or 6, inspections are conducted to check whether there are any changes to facilities. The national government conducts inspections depending on the situation, although at least once a year.

In the case of the prefecture, from the perspective of inspection, it is one thing to take a fairly wide period of time and inspect at least once from autumn to spring in preparation for the flood season.

In addition, the content to be checked is that in many cases, even when people do it, they record the matters checked in the visual inspection with photos and images. In the past, this was done with a paper ledger, but now it has been categorized in such a way that the coordinates are dropped on a three dimensional chart like the base point cloud data mentioned earlier, and the related photos are posted there, but the results of the analysis are still combined with text by people. That is the situation.

Also, as shown in the picture, the width of the change in the site, or in the case of the embankment, the width and length of the crack in the soil, are recorded.

If it is a concrete structure, the relationship between the facility and the road is the same, so it may not be because it is a river, but I think it will be like understanding the size of the crack. That's all.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, In that sense, based on the answers from the people of the river to the questions by the members of Uenoyama, is it correct to understand that it is okay if it can be confirmed visually in the same way as it can be seen with the eyes?

Water Management and Land Conservation Bureau, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism: Regarding the image of The basic is to see with the eyes in the end.
The only thing is that it is covered with vegetation, so it cannot actually be seen in the video captured from above. It is necessary to provide such secondary support as avoiding the grass with your hands, but at the end, it is necessary to measure the length by eye or to check the width, so I think that the video is the same at the end.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, I heard that the method using 3 d point cloud data, which you mentioned earlier, can be evaluated to have a more positive effect than human beings because people can definitely grasp the whole and make decisions rather than looking at it piecemeal.
What I would like to ask is, is it correct to understand that the Innovative River Technology Project, which is the material on page 4 that you prepared, is basically rotated every year?

Water Management and Land Conservation Bureau, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism: Regarding the image of I think it is basically more than one year, two or three years.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, After all, you are looking at the long-term. I understand. Thank you.
Considering how people in the park can overcome the problem while checking the technology, I thought it would be best to do the same thing, so I thought it would be a good indication of how long it will take, so I think they will do it well, and if the budget is insufficient, let's work together.

On the other hand, if you can do more if you increase the budget, I would like you to tell me again. Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister River Bureau, I would like to receive information about that area as well. Mr. Nemoto, what do you think?

Nemoto Member: Thank you very much. I understood the inspection operation after listening to your explanation, but I would be grateful if you could tell me about the accumulation of how it is recorded and made into a database. In short, it is a matter of how the management ledger is.

Water Management and Land Conservation Bureau, Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism: Regarding the image of , as described on page 3, the base information is in the form of a three dimensional river channel map, which is based on the data captured by the laser scanner earlier. Based on this, we have started to have a base river channel map in digitalization, which is a combination of a river distance table and a three dimensional chart. This is a progressive form.

Conventionally, on a paper basis, a distance table, which records the number of kilometers of the river and whether it is on the river side or the urban area side, is held together with the picture taken earlier, so that the next inspection will be conducted from the point where the change is severe.

So now, there are still photos and text information on the three dimensional data one by one, so if you go with a GPS, you can figure out which point you want to check, even if another person goes there.
Not only the so-called familiar staff of the river, but also even if it is commissioned, the information can be used in the same way, so at present, the work of the transition is being advanced.

Nemoto Member: Thank you. The park is still paper, of course.

I am Funakubo of the Park, Greenery and Landscape Division of the Urban Affairs Bureau of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. As you said, the records of inspections in the Urban Park law are stored. However, in terms of methods, digital technology is not so advanced yet, so if it is written in paper, it is stored as paper. If it is a little advanced, it is stored as electronic data, as introduced in the national park.

However, in terms of repeatability, I think it is quite difficult to make a perfect match on paper. In the guidelines we are creating, we rely largely on the rules of experience of inspectors, so we are saying that it is necessary to keep a proper inspection record in order to conduct objective inspections. However, there is still a limit to this at this stage, and I think it is Issue, and when we introduce new technologies like this, it is appropriate to solve such problems. That is all.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Thank you very much. We may ask for additional consideration based on the opinions we received today, so we would like to ask for the cooperation of each ministry.

Now, I would like to conclude the first part. I would like to set the target timing for the future phase toward the end of March as we are considering it positively. Thank you very much to everyone at the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.

Next, I would like to talk about the second point, visual inspection regulation in terms of intermediate and completion inspections of buildings, etc. Excuse me, but before I begin my explanation, may I have a word from the Senior Vice-Minister?

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, Housing Bureau. Thank you for your cooperation despite being very busy.

For us, the fact that this meeting is being held behind closed doors means that we would like to consult with you based on our true feelings. In fact, as the world has changed, there are places where we should review it soon. However, I believe that there are various Issue and backgrounds, such as whether we should be able to explain safety and whether current technology is good. I believe that the industry also has a labor shortage problem in terms of how to make a efficiency while hearing about this based on our true feelings. Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . This regulation is an inspection conducted on various buildings such as houses, condominiums, buildings, and steel towers.

Based on the purpose of the inspection and the actual situation at the site, how to advance the technology substitution will be an issue.
Then, Mr. Atsuo Fukai, Chief of the Construction Guidance Section of the Housing Bureau, please explain.

Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Housing Bureau: . I am Fukai, Director of the
First, this time, the related articles are extracted and described as a completion inspection, an intermediate inspection, and the purpose of the law. In addition, guidelines for the method are set forth in the public notice.

To summarize the above, the purpose of the regulation is to protect human life and urban environments by establishing minimum safety standards for the site, structure, equipment, and use of buildings. In order to ensure that each building conforms to the standards established by the law, the compliance of the design Library is confirmed before the start of construction, and at the end, a completion inspection is conducted after the entire construction is completed, and some buildings are inspected even at an intermediate stage.

As for the background of the completion inspection, as shown below, it began in 1950, at the time of the enactment of the law. In light of the situation of the Great Hanshin-Awaji Earthquake in 1995, there were many cases of damage due to poor construction from 2011. In order to improve the inspection system, we established the private sector Inspection Organization for Building Confirmation Inspection, which is called the designated confirmation and inspection body, and established an intermediate inspection system while improving the system. private sector Inspection Organization

In addition, in 2007, in light of the Aneha incident about two years earlier, the confirmation inspection was made stricter, and intermediate inspection was made mandatory for some condominiums.

The theme this time is on the right side. We will check once at the planning stage, but regarding whether the actual construction conforms to the standards, the completion inspection will be conducted on all buildings. As for the intermediate inspection, certain buildings will be subject to the inspection, and the building official of a public organization, or the designated confirmation and inspection body and private sector Agency, which I mentioned earlier, will conduct the inspection. I will say standards in a word, but regarding the regulations related to the building standards, the inspection will be conducted on whether the building conforms to various standards such as the relationship between the structure, fire prevention, facilities, and group regulations.

As a matter of fact, the number of completed inspections is 500,000 per year for all buildings, including detached houses and skyscrapers, as well as houses, offices, commercial facilities, hotels, and ryokans. Most of them, or 90%, are conducted by the inspection agencies in private sector, as I mentioned earlier. About 40% of intermediate inspections are conducted by the inspection agencies in private sector, as well.

Now, in terms of who is conducting the inspections and how they are conducted, as I mentioned earlier, qualified inspectors from building official or private sector agencies conduct the inspections. Each building is inspected to determine whether it conforms to the building standards, and the main thing is the actual condition of the visual inspection at the site, but we also use measuring equipment and documents in combination.

For example, in the table below, although it is only a small part, various rooms and parts in a building are inspected from the perspective of whether they conform to the standards, their dimensions, and whether they can be moved properly in an emergency. It depends on the object, but if it is a small object, it takes a relatively short time, but in the case of a large building, it takes several people and several days to inspect it.

Also, there is no particular way to do it by public organizations.
Also, in terms of whether or not this can be called a precedent case, as I have just mentioned, in reality, there is the presence of the applicant and the business operator at the site, and they respond to the points pointed out on the spot.

We have also received requests from business operators for the possibility of remote monitoring. Although there is no person in charge at the site, we are making a separate validation to see how far we can go with a method in which an assistant will be able to monitor the situation with a camera and respond to the situation remotely. This may not be directly related to today's topic.

I would like to summarize the current phases and points of contention. We have discussed the current situation with the Secretariat, but it is not clearly written that it can be done remotely, so we have organized it as Phase 1-2.

Next, I would like to talk about an issue for advancing the phase. I have consulted with the Secretariat and prepared it for discussion.

First of all, I have heard that there was a request from the Secretariat. For example, I have heard that there was a request from the Secretariat that it would be possible for on-site inspectors to fly the drones to confirm that it is high and difficult to climb up with human power.

With regard to this point, as stated in the second circle below, I believe that we are not necessarily denying the use of various devices. If various technologies emerge, I believe that the measurement method is basically to use a measuring instrument, but I have heard that it is natural to substitute a laser pointer for this. For example, I believe that flying a drones is possible. I believe that Issue still has the idea of how to convey to the people on the ground that this method is acceptable.

Second, I heard that this was also a request from the inspection side to the secretariat. Now, qualified inspectors are responsible for the inspection, so the reality is that the inspectors always go to the site. This is a story about whether it is possible to conduct the inspection while connecting video and audio remotely, with the inspector being at a remote location and only the assistant stationed at the site.

I believe there is a possibility that we will be able to watch the situation remotely via videophone or other means via on-site assistants. However, it should be noted that if there is an oversight in the inspection, it will naturally be a non-conforming or violating building, and the inspector in charge will be punished. On the other hand, if the violation is overlooked and a non-conforming building is found, it will actually lead to damage to the people who use the building. There are concerns that it will cause safety problems in the event of a fire or lead to an accident, and there are also concerns about damage to the surrounding area.

On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, in the remote relationship between the witness and the inspector, I have heard from the inspector and the inspector. If we are to do this, we will have to give instructions one by one to the on-site assistants, such as how to measure where and how to measure the Setoka, and how to close-up the measured points. Since equipment operates only in emergencies, it is necessary to confirm how to operate it, so it is said that it may take more time than if the inspector inspects it directly. In particular, the larger the building, the more standards need to be met, so I think it will take quite a long time if the building is large.

In this regard, I believe we can somehow resolve this Issue issue, and I would like to consider how to make it work within the scope of application while taking into account the needs of the examination side and the application side.

Another question is whether it can be fully automated. The first and second questions are about Issue as I mentioned earlier. In the end, we must consider the possibility of damage to human life. As mentioned in the third question, can it be done with the same accuracy as on-site inspection? Can it be done efficiently for various buildings? Whether the images and data are real or not, whether they are from the building in the first place? In fact, I have heard that there are some cases where there are non-conforming parts at the inspection stage. If it is necessary to correct them, how to point out them? In addition, the design varies from building to building, and the standards applied vary depending on the regulation. In addition, we are constantly reviewing the standards themselves to rationalize them, and public organizations are adding standards in the case of, and in the case of existing buildings, it is necessary to apply them to past standards. So far, I do not think there is any AI technology that can automate such judgments.

Finally, I would like to summarize. Therefore, although we have Issue as I mentioned earlier, we would like to proceed with Phase 2.
With regard to (ii), I would like to reiterate that in Phase 3, we do not know the technical feasibility of automating and unmanned inspections at the moment, so as stated at the end of the first sentence, based on the needs of the examination side and the application side, we will start full-scale consideration next fiscal year on when it can be applied and how it can be done successfully, and we will organize the direction of consideration while listening to the opinions of the field. In addition, we will have to do a considerable amount of actual demonstration experiments in the following fiscal year, so I would like to make a transition for Phase 2 after doing that. If we can do this, as stated in (iii), we can expect a considerable amount of efficiency for inspections in cases where the travel time is longer than the inspection time.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . If you have any questions or comments, please do so. Mr. Uenoyama, please.

Member Uenoyama: Thank you for making a very specific summary in the form of Issues (1) to (3). I would like to share a framework from a technical perspective to deepen the three issues for your reference.

First, as a premise, when we look at the act of inspection with a cold eye, I think that people are doing the three step information processing. Step 1 is to observe something and put the data into the brain. Step 2 is to infer whether it is bad or not, classify it into a certain class, and judge it. Step 3 is to deal with it or intervene. When we ask whether we can automate it technically, Step 1 is very complicated, and I think this can be classified from the technical difficulty.

I think it is roughly three to four levels. Level 0, I don't think it is this kind of inspection, but it is a type of inspection in which imaging can be performed from a distance. This is just an image recognition problem, so if the resolution is achieved, it can be performed with higher accuracy than a human being. That is true, but the actual inspection work is probably Level 1, a case in which imaging needs to be performed at a close distance. What is different from Level 0 is that the imaging body itself needs to move autonomously. This increases the technical difficulty by one.

Level 2 is to observe an object and change the imaging angle depending on the result. I think people do such things, and this is rather difficult. Finally, Level 3 is to observe something and then interact with the object, such as moving an object by an actuator or hearing a sound by hitting it. I think the difficulty will increase further. Even if it is called inspection work, if I classify it according to the current point of view, I think I can distinguish the parts that can be done here and cannot be done here by color. Earlier, you talked about whether it is remote or not, but I think it will come down to the problem of accuracy from the current point of view. Just for your reference. That's all.

Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Housing Bureau: Thank you very much. Actually, there are situations where we have to look at things very closely, we have to measure them in millimeters, or we have to think about how to see them on site because they are difficult to see. There are also situations where we have to move things that do not move normally. Based on your comments, we will continue to consider what kind of technology can be used. Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . Next, Mr. Nemoto, how do you feel?

Nemoto Member: Thank you.
I have two comments. You pointed out the story of oversight of inspection in two places. In fact, it often occurs in other fields, but oversight does not depend on automation or digitalization. How it is different from oversight by humans has been often discussed in other fields, so I think it is better to refrain from raising this as an issue this time. This is my first comment.

In addition to the hundreds of thousands of inspection data and this case, we are separately considering the digital twining of cities, so I would like Digital Agency to consider incorporating the whole picture of this into a single database. That's all for my second comment.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister .

Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Housing Bureau: Thank you very much. When I listen to the people at the site, I actually hear that there are things that can be seen with the naked eye and that there are restrictions such as that the camera must be moved one by one, so it may be an expression that mixes these things. Thank you very much.

With regard to the database called the Digital Twin in digitalization, at this point, the purpose is not to inspect it but to check whether it conforms to the standards required by law. In the case of the database called the Digital Twin in visual inspection, which does not use digital technology, there is no particular mechanism to accumulate data and photos. Therefore, I believe that Mr. Nemoto's comments will probably be discussed, including whether the database itself must be preserved. That is all.

Nemoto Member: Including that meaning, it may not be related to this case. I'm sorry.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . What do you think, Mr. Inadani?

Member Inadani: Thank you, I also have a little bit of a relationship with Mr. Nemoto's second point, so you might say it is not related. I heard that it was larger buildings that cost more, so on the one hand, BIM will be standardized, and on the other hand, construction machinery will be automated by installing more and more sensors in the future. I thought that there might be a way to improve or change the accuracy of intermediate confirmation by using the acquired data from the construction machinery well when building according to BIM, or to confirm that the completed thing is built as if it were built while using the motion of the construction machinery and sensors. In addition, I think that this field is also a place where synergistic effects can be expected. In other words, I think it is a field where synergistic effects can be expected both in terms of the efficiency of confirmation and the utilization of autonomous mobile robots through BIM. I don't know if it is related to this talk itself, but I would be grateful if you could consider it. Thank you very much.

Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Housing Bureau:
I did not include BIM because it was not a topic of conversation today, but since separate research has begun, it is not yet possible to use BIM from design to construction to maintenance. Therefore, we are working with many people in private sector to research and organize how to make effective use of BIM so that it can be effectively used for design and even for the management of individual buildings.

In such a situation, there is also a discussion that it may be possible to make it easier to understand by using it as an auxiliary for inspection, for example, so I think there are various ways to use BIM, so I would like to consider it again at the BIM Technology development. Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Next, Mr. Ochiai, how do you feel?

Ochiai Member: Thank you very much, Thank you for your explanation. Also, thank you for your positive efforts.

There are several points. The first is about the story that Mr. Nemoto talked about earlier, what kind of form will be the form in which there are no more oversights than people. I think that there are things that machines are better at and things that people are better at, so I think that there will be an overall comparison in the future. In terms of whether or not machines will overlook the places that people have overlooked, I think that there is a high possibility that machines will lose, but I think that there will be cases where only opportunities will be found, so I think that it would be good if you could make a comparison without assuming that people have overlooked or have not overlooked in the whole. In that, I would like you to evaluate the risk based on how you were able to evaluate the risk as a whole. I think that the future is still included, but I would like you to have such a perspective. This is my first point.

The second point is that the word "visual inspection" is written in the notification. During the explanation, you said that it is okay to use "drones" and that you would like to have such things done. During the discussions at the regulatory reform Conference so far, you said that it is often the case that when the word "visual inspection" is written, it is difficult for people at the site to use it, or they do not know what to do, and they are confused and stop. If it is possible to use it in such a case, the notification itself will be made clear, so that it will be easier for people at the site to understand that it is already okay to use it. The second point is that you can consider such things.

The third point is that in the case of the catalog, for example, tunnels and ports are already being worked on, and I believe there are some parts in common in terms of technology. I would like you to refer to the information there. I am aware that it is difficult to cooperate between departments, so when Digital Agency provides support, I would like you to collect information from other departments and provide such support.

Rather than the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Communications, I believe this is a place where we can proceed while talking, so I would like the person in charge of Digital Agency to play such a part. That's all.

Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Housing Bureau: Thank you for your pointed out. We also believe that it is important to utilize various technologies according to their progress. On the other hand, I believe that there are many parts where it is more efficient to use people, and I would like to think about how to combine inspection, judgment, visual inspection, and technology utilization by people.

Amidst this, as you pointed out, I would like to say a little in my explanation, but I do not mean to deny the use of drones. For example, I believe that Issue must consider how to convey to the people on the ground that it is acceptable to use Okinawa. I believe that we must consider how to provide such information.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . Lastly, regarding the point you pointed out, I believe that there is something that can be done only from the position of Digital Agency, so I would like to consider sharing information within the Government.

Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism, Housing Bureau: We ourselves would like to make an effort to collect information. In many ways, we would like to think while listening to the voices of the field.

Ochiai Member: Thank you very much, Thank you very much. I think it is certainly in the form of expanding the scope of use according to the situation in a way that there is no burden on the site, so I would like to ask for your cooperation.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister , we are running out of time, so we will stop here for the second theme. If you have any additional comments or questions, please contact the secretariat.

In addition, based on the opinions I received today, ministries and agencies may ask for additional consideration, so I would like to ask for your cooperation. I am aware that you are considering it positively, and I would like to finalize the phase and the desired direction toward the end of March. Thank you.
Thank you very much, everyone from the Housing Bureau. I will return it to Mr. Ahn once here.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, . This is the second half of the agenda. Mr. Takamatsu, Counselor, may I speak to you?

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . My third question is about regulation visual inspection, who is involved in the delivery of waste to the waste treatment and storage facility. Mr. Senior Vice-Minister, I would like to ask you a few words.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, , thank you for your cooperation today. On a daily basis, the Secretariat holds various consultations, but the reason why we are holding this meeting is that we hope to be able to talk about various matters on a sincere basis. Since the productive age population will decrease considerably in the next five to ten years, each industry will be short of workers. On the other hand, while technology is advancing, if there are rules that were created in the past that can be changed even a little bit in accordance with today's needs, I would like to see them evolve more and more.

However, I would like to have various discussions with you so that you can think of it as a place for consultation on how to overcome problems together, while sharing your feelings of Issue on a sincere basis, such as whether you can give an explanation to the world or if you do not have a budget for operation. Thank you very much for your cooperation today.

Environmental Restoration and Resources Circulation Bureau, Ministry of the Environment: Best regards

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister .
Unlike the inspections of structures such as infrastructure and buildings that have been conducted thus far, the regulation Inspection will be conducted to confirm whether the status of the disposal of industrial waste and the status of the transportation of substances that are at risk of generating heat or igniting depending on how they are handled into storage facilities are being carried out appropriately.
Then, I would like to have an explanation from Mr. Yoichi Kamiya, Manager of the Waste Management regulation Section, Environmental Restoration and Resources Circulation Bureau, Ministry of the Environment. Thank you very much.

Environmental Restoration and Resources Circulation Bureau, Ministry of the Environment: This is Kamiya of the Ministry of the Environment. Thank you for your time today. Nice to meet you.
With regard to the Waste Disposal and Public Cleansing Law, you have presented two visual inspection from the perspective of Issue, and I would like to explain the content of the law today.

The first is the on-site confirmation of the status of waste disposal. In terms of the legal basis for this, there is a "observance of the consignment standards, etc." in the middle. When a waste management company outsources waste disposal to another company in accordance with the Waste Disposal and Public Cleansing Act, it is necessary to confirm the status of the disposal of industrial waste that has been outsourced, and to endeavor to take the necessary measures to ensure that the disposal in the series of processes from the generation of the industrial waste to the completion of the disposal is properly conducted. I understand that the main issue this time is how much visual inspection is required for the confirmation.

As for the background of this idea, in fact, waste treatment has a history of flowing into low-cost treatment in various forms and inappropriate treatment has been carried out for a long time, and the law has been strengthened. The idea of industrial waste is that there is a fundamental principle that business operators must treat their own industrial waste, and there is a rule that such management should be carried out even when outsourcing.

Therefore, in June 2017, we created a checklist that embodies this method of confirmation. In this checklist, various ways of thinking are shown. The responsibility of the business operator is not to end the business by simply entrusting the disposal of waste to another person. Or, the actual confirmation this time is not to be discharged by taking measures such as on-site confirmation of the facility or indirect confirmation by another person.

Furthermore, in the "Purpose" section, it states that it is important to make substantial confirmation, such as conducting on-site confirmation while actually communicating with the disposal company, and asking the disposal company for confirmation if there are any unclear points or questions about the disclosed information.
I would like to give you one more reason why we are so particular about this point. There are many stories that this is because the contractor did something bad without the knowledge of the waste generator.

There are two examples. One is that in 2016, a curry restaurant called Ichibanya became a waste generator, and an industrial waste disposal company with permission put the cutlet on the distribution channel again and sold it without permission. There was a serious incident. This was also a case in which the company was supposed to have properly entrusted the business to a permitted company, but why such an incident could not be prevented became a very big problem.

The other is the case in 2016. In addition to the multiple consignment of waste generated from demolition, unauthorized persons illegally dumped waste in the end. Both the consignment to unauthorized companies and the multiple subcontracting are in conflict with the Waste Management and Public Cleansing Law. However, there have been cases of illegal dumping in which such cases were carried out without any management. Therefore, it was necessary to properly confirm the confirmation of waste generators as a checklist and operate it.

This is a checklist. It summarizes what kinds of items should be checked by the business operator at each point in time. From the applicability of wastes at the time of discharge to the observance of storage standards at the time of storage and the requirements for consignment. It should be checked before delivery. In addition, it should be checked whether the Issue of the management slip called manifest is performed properly. After that, I think it is mainly discussed whether the visual inspection is performed this time or not, but it should be checked whether the manifest is returned properly at the time of completion, and it should be checked that the responsibility should be taken at each stage. That is the regulation of the law.

There is one debate on whether the confirmation of the processing status is visual inspection or not, and there may be differences in operation depending on the local government. We are not necessarily forcing the confirmation to be done in visual inspection, and we have actually made it known by issuing a notice. At the meeting of the directors concerned last year, there was a similar request to the present one. In local government, where on-site confirmation is mandatory and guidance is provided, we have a record of calling for flexibility in the use of online services, etc., by requesting flexible responses when such methods are deemed to be appropriate for the performance of the duty of care.

On the next page, I would like to talk about the extent to which visual inspection is mandatory in the checklist. One of the contents here is that in the case of outsourcing to a good industrial waste contractor, it is possible to confirm by an indirect method. Another is that it is important to confirm in substance, such as by requesting answers if there are any unclear points about the public information.

Good industrial waste processors are mentioned here, but for those who are recognized by visual inspection for their good business performance, such as legal disposition and financial transparency, this part is relaxed as a preferential treatment, and there is a part that is used as a measure to explicitly support the fact that it does not have to be a prefecture. Here, there is one idea that a difference is introduced in whether it is possible or not depending on the quality of the processor.

Regarding the examination of the relationship with the phases, regarding the current phase, it has been arranged that it is still at the stage of Phase 1-2 because there are examples of on-site confirmation in the checklist and it has not been specified that online is allowed.

As for our future response, in order to clarify the items and cases that can be checked remotely, among the series of checklists that you mentioned earlier, the list from the time of discharge to the time of completion, for example, documents, instruments, and confirmation by hearing from business operators may be confirmed online.

However, to confirm the processing status, there will be a shortage of information that cannot be felt without actually experiencing whether the facility is operating appropriately in terms of environmental conservation at the site. To be specific, it is about whether there is a bad smell. Because of this, I think that we need to think a little carefully about whether to consider online.

Also, with regard to the issuance of a notification on alternative means by digitalization, we will consider what items we can issue based on the current situation and consideration of regulation in local government, and we will work with a view to revising the checklist.

As a schedule, we are thinking of investigating the regulation situation in local government, identifying items that can be remoted through hearings, etc., and issuing a notification within the next fiscal year.

Regarding the phase we are aiming for, as a method of confirming a series of processes, we will clearly indicate that online can be used depending on the item and introduce it. It was also requested that online can be used when Group companies entrust to the same business operator at the same time, but I think that will become possible in conjunction with the above. This is my first point.

The second point is about the visual inspection inspection of solid fuel. In the Waste Management and Public Cleansing Law, facilities that manufacture fuel by solidifying waste are also subject to permission, and there is a provision that the facility must be operated in accordance with the standards for maintenance and management of the facility. As you can see in the picture on the right, combustible waste is processed into fuel and this fuel is used for power generation, etc. As an effective means of recycling, a large number of general waste and industrial waste are being introduced.

Although this fuel is very promising, it is flammable, so prevention of ignition and overheating is a very big Issue. The Enforcement Regulations specify that visual inspection confirmation should be made as described here, and that each facility concerned should be inspected by visual inspection, confirmed that it is not significantly powdered, and recorded.

On the next page, the reason why there is a regulation that the combustible material is not significantly pulverized is in the upper box. The pulverized combustible material becomes very reactive when it comes into contact with moisture and air, or fermentation becomes likely to occur. All of these things lead to heat generation and spontaneous ignition, which cause safety concerns.

As a standard, there is a provision that the degree of pulverization should be "not significantly pulverized." To be specific, as shown in the flow on the right, we check the visual inspection at each stage of loading and unloading at manufacturing facilities, power generation facilities using it, incineration facilities, etc., to check whether there is significant pulverization.

It is said that this is to prevent significant pulverization, but the reason why it was introduced was that there were various unfortunate accidents. One example is the Enterprise Agency of Mie Prefecture, which is a solid fuel power plant. It is a facility that generates power using solid fuel made from general waste. There was a very tragic case in which an explosion accident occurred several times while cooling work was difficult due to heat and fire, and seven people were killed or injured.

Also, in the case of the Omuta Recycle Power Station, the temperature rose and white smoke was observed. In this case, the operation had to be continued for an extremely long period of time because the fuel was removed while nitrogen gas was injected.

Based on this, a technical review meeting was held, and the maintenance management standards that we just mentioned were added in 2004 and 2005.
How this rule is currently applied has been discussed this time, so I have heard about it on the next page. As an example of operation to confirm significant pulverization by visual inspection, there was an example of a facility that is operated to reduce the burden on the visual inspection by performing sieve sorting in advance, removing in advance those with a certain particle size or less, and moving the others to a storage facility as visual inspection.

On the next page, the direction of this study. It is currently specified as visual inspection. As for Issue, there is room for the use of high-precision cameras and drones in the current regulations, but I believe that Issue is trying to clarify the interpretation. Regarding the refinement of judgment and labor saving, if judgment can be made by AI judgment, it will lead to labor saving, so I believe that this is also Issue for technical validation.

On the next page, there is another story that was raised about this Issue. It is said that the fact that it is written as "extremely powdered" may be a quantitative standard. Regarding quantification, it was actually the result of consideration when the guidelines were created that uniform quantification is difficult, and it has already been written in the guidelines, so I would like to introduce it.

First of all, it says that the average degree of powdering in the facilities is 2.6%, but the point where it is dangerous varies depending on the management status. It says that if the facilities are thoroughly used without long-term storage, there are some facilities where the degree of powdering is more than 20%, but it cannot be said to be dangerous.

In addition, the degree of powdering may be set to 1-2%, but this does not apply when it is deemed unnecessary from the viewpoint of the status of use. Therefore, it is not always reasonable to quantify the degree of powdering uniformly. Therefore, the current concept of the guideline is that while the standard value is shown, the line to be marked should be judged individually by looking at the properties and management status of the fuel in the facility.

On the next page, I would like to talk about what we will do in the future. One is technical validation. First, we would like to conduct technical validation on whether or not powdering can be judged by evaluating image processing with a high-precision camera, plus AI. This is an image of deep-learning this image to conduct validation on the human eye.

The other is that it is an institutional validation, and the legal responsibility for maintenance and management falls naturally on the business operator. While firmly grasping the diversity of wastes and the opinions of the local government and the business operator, we will consider institutional responses and clarification of interpretation for methods other than the visual inspection. We will implement these measures and find answers after the autumn of this fiscal year 4 by multiplying the Technology validation and the Institutional validation. It's a little long, but that's all.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . If you have any questions or opinions on the point I just mentioned, please let me know. Thank you, Dr. Annen.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, Chuo University. With regard to the issue of pulverization in the second half, I heard that you are aiming for Phase 3 at least as a goal. Is it correct to think so?

In addition, I think it is true that it is strange to set a uniform percentage across facilities, but there is no direct relationship between this and whether it can be done in Phase 3 or Phase 2. If it is decided for each facility or each situation, it is only necessary to set it as a parameter when using the machine. What do you think about this point?

Environmental Restoration and Resources Circulation Bureau, Ministry of the Environment: Thank you.
The introduction of AI is in sight. It is not possible to know whether all of them can be replaced, or how and to what extent they will be introduced, until we make a validation. However, in part 3, we would like to consider the possibility of introducing AI to help save labor.
In addition, I believe that you are correct in saying that digitization and AI are different. There was a proposal that this standard should not be based on the premise that it cannot be done without digitization, because the regulation of significant pulverization is ambiguous, and it may be an obstacle to the introduction and automation of AI.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, .

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Next, Mr. Inadani, how do you feel?

Member Inadani: Thank you, . Actually, I thought about almost the same thing as Dr. Annen, and I would like to add a few things. I didn't know well whether it was something you could see with your eyes, or I thought it would be better to consider what indicators you need to catch in order to achieve the purpose of preventing danger, such as combining different sensors instead of just seeing with your eyes.

Another point is that in the institutional response, there are various problems such as the risk of what kind of company to ask, and the location of the company, but I think there are places where we can make progress by conducting experiments, so I thought that if we could proceed in a direction that does not shrink as much as possible, the technology would advance very much. Thank you very much.

Environmental Restoration and Resources Circulation Bureau, Ministry of the Environment: Thank you very much. Based on your comments, I would like to proceed with consideration so that we can flexibly adopt various technologies so as not to lose sight of the main goal of ensuring safety. Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Next, Mr. Ochiai, how do you feel?

Ochiai Member: Thank you very much, Thank you.
I would like to make a different point from the previous point. One is about the on-site inspection of the consignment. As you said, it is difficult to measure the odor directly. If it is essential, there may be things that cannot be done with current technology.

On the other hand, for example, when supplying hydrogen, there is talk of an obligation to add odor, but in foreign countries, for example, by measuring the amount of leaked air or installing a sensor, I have heard that alternative measures to ensure safety without directly measuring odor are sometimes considered. It is true that we cannot confirm anything unless it is an odor, and we may not be able to think of an alternative means to that, but on the other hand, even if we do not substitute everything, I think there are parts that can be substituted. The first is to specify such parts as much as possible and to limit the parts that require practical use to the extent possible.

The other is how to support local government's efforts. Recently, how to work on local rules has been a matter of considerable debate in relation to other business laws. Among them, there are business laws that, for example, create a model regulation, and it is possible to indicate to some extent how to work in this way. Of course, if you have the right to establish a regulation, you cannot deprive it in the end, but there are parts where such things are being done gradually. Of course, I believe that you have understood that, and have talked about what you can do at the briefing. The second point is that I would like you to work on this in a way that promotes local government's efforts as much as possible. That is all.

Environmental Restoration and Resources Circulation Bureau, Ministry of the Environment: Thank you.
With regard to the confirmation of the status of the process, I believe it is important to consider whether it can be partially eased, as you said, so I would like to put this on the agenda and consider it.

The major goal of waste disposal facilities is to ensure the conservation of the living environment by mobilizing all five senses and not causing pollution. Therefore, although there is a line of defense for everything, I would like to think about what I can think flexibly.
In addition, as you just pointed out, there are still parts about regulation in local government that are clearly against national policy, and although we will be cautious in relation to the right to establish regulation, we will work on how we can make efforts based on what you just pointed out. Thank you very much.

Ochiai Member: Thank you very much, Thank you very much. I look forward to working with you.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . Please send any additional questions to the Secretariat.
In addition, we may ask for additional consideration based on the opinions and suggestions we received today, so we would like to continue to ask for the cooperation of the people of the Ministry of the Environment.
This concludes the third part. Thank you, Ministry of the Environment.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, , Ministry of the Environment. We look forward to your continued support.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Next, I would like to talk about the fourth point, which is the field survey of fixed assets. First of all, I would like to ask Senior Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs to say a few words about the purpose of this initiative. Thank you very much.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, Municipal Tax Bureau, thank you for your cooperation.
I think that the purpose has already been fully conveyed. In local government, in particular, there are places where there is a labor shortage, and in the past, there was no technology, so I think it was a matter of seeing with my own eyes. However, in order to ensure effective administration while resolving the labor shortage as much as possible amid the emergence of new technology, I would like to ask you to talk about various matters on a sincere basis and discuss what kind of support we should be able to overcome. Thank you very much.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . The regulation so far has been a type of regulation such as inspection and patrol, but this case is slightly different from these. Among the three types of visual inspection regulation, I believe that this case falls under the category of investigation that clarifies the actual situation and trends.
In fact, each local government executes its business based on this regulation, so in such a structure, what should be done to promote technological substitution? I think that will be an issue.

Then, Mr. Masatake Kazahaya, Director of the Fixed Asset Tax Section of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Municipal Tax Bureau, and Mr. Shigeru Yokoyama, Fixed Asset Appraiser of the Division, please explain.

Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Municipal Tax Office: Fixed Assets Section.
I would like to ask you to turn to page one of the handout. This is based on the format you suggested, and it describes a field study of property tax.

In the first part, the relevant provisions of local taxes are described. It is the part called Article 408.

With regard to the purpose of Item 2, the article in this article says "on-the-spot investigation," but as stated here, it is sufficient if the on-the-spot investigation is conducted to the extent that the current status of fixed assets can be known. In the first place, it is not a request for people to visit the site and visually check the documents and buildings. In other words, it is a system that allows local government to conduct an investigation by appropriate means depending on the actual situation.

In addition, as the Senior Vice-Minister mentioned earlier, when aerial photography technology comes out, including the purpose of the notification in 1993, we have already issued a notification to local government as an advice on the use of aerial photography so that the confirmation of the current situation can be carried out effectively and efficiently without visiting the site.

I am sorry to bother you with the materials, but I would like you to open page 3. I have described the notice here. It is a notice for 1993. First of all, in the upper part, it is effective and efficient to use aerial photographs, so we have made a notice so that the survey of the current status of fixed assets using aerial photographs can be systematically advanced.

In the "Description" below, I would like to introduce two points. First, in No. 3, we should cooperate with other departments in local government and make the most effective use of existing materials such as Road Register and parcel maps. In addition, in No. 4, from the perspective of rationalization of office work and efficient execution of budgets, we are also providing advice on the joint introduction of aerial photographs by multiple municipalities.

Please go back to the first page again.
No. 3. As a matter of fact, more than 90% of municipalities are conducting efficient surveys using aerial photographs. A quick survey shows that the remaining less than 10% of local government are basically small-scale local government. We understand that they are depopulated groups or groups related to remote islands that can understand what new buildings have been built or how the use of land has changed in the course of various administrative activities in local government without using aerial photographs.

No. 4. Regarding the types that Mr. Digital Agency organized, it is Phase 1-2. As I mentioned earlier, on the premise that the provisions of this article do not make any regulation to local government in the method of investigation, it is made clear in the notice that it is desirable to use aerial photographs as they are now. In the course of the arrangement, for example, we are organizing that even if drones is used, it is a type of aircraft, but I have heard that the reason for this arrangement is that drones and AI are not explicitly included in this notice.
No. 5, Regarding Issue in the future, although it is somewhat related to what I will explain later, in order to increase the number of applications of AI, etc., it is necessary to improve the accuracy of AI.

In relation to this, I would like to explain the sixth phase, which I aim for. Needless to say, fixed asset tax is an assessment tax, and municipalities, which are tax agencies, determine the amount of tax and owe it to taxpayers. Therefore, if the amount of tax is wrong, it will have a significant impact on the property of the people and the rights of the people, and it will be a nuisance. Therefore, I believe that it is extremely important to ensure accuracy when using AI.

Regarding the possibility of introducing AI, etc., we have written that it is important for municipalities, which are the parties responsible for the survey, to determine the most appropriate method based on the actual situation, such as the area and scale, as well as the degree and frequency of change in fixed assets, and to efficiently execute administrative work.

Next, on page 2. This is also an issue based on suggestions from the Secretariat, and although there are some parts that overlap with the first page I just explained, I will explain briefly.

First, I would like to ask about the relationship between the regulations of law. It is specified as "on-site investigation," but it is already clear that there is no need for people to go to the site to investigate. We are already promoting efficient investigation through the use of aerial photographs and the like by notification.

Second, regarding the actual state of survey methods in local organizations, each organization conducts efficient surveys according to its scale, etc., and more than 90% of organizations use aerial photographs, etc.

Third, regarding the horizontal development of prior cases, there are cases such as Yokohama-machi, Aomori prefecture, which utilizes drones, and Maebashi City, Gunma prefecture, which conducted AI analysis of captured images and demonstration experiments using cloud computing. The appraiser will explain this matter based on the materials on page 4 and later.

Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Municipal Tax Office: appraiser. It is page 4 of the document. This is called the Aerial Photo AI Analysis Cloud Demonstration. This demonstration experiments was implemented from July 2020 to February 2021 by Maebashi City, three other cities, and the NEC Corporation as Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications's 2020 local government AI Joint development Promotion Project.

It aims to be a business efficiency for tax object identification by AI analysis of aerial photo data in fixed asset tax administration.
Through this project, it is expected that business performance will be achieved with high accuracy and in a short period of time by replacing the conventional visual inspection interpretation work of aerial photographs by humans with transfer identification by AI.

Please see the figure at the bottom of this document for the specific processing process. The blue part labeled "Image Processing" on the left side uses existing solutions to create digital image data that can be analyzed by AI from old and new aerial photos. By this data processing, it is possible to grasp changes in color and shape of old and new images.

This is the part labeled "target area extraction" below. This digitalization image data is analyzed, and from the color and shape of the image, the AI is made to recognize whether it is a land, a house, or a road.

Next, in the part labeled "input data creation," information on land and houses that have been transferred or changed from this recognition data is listed, and differential data for matching with the tax ledger data is created.

In the end, in the part written as "Change identification", the flow is that this differential data is compared with the tax ledger data, and whether or not there is a change is determined by AI.

Through such processing, it is possible to efficiently grasp new construction or destruction of houses, or land whose use status has changed from farmland to parking lots.

The next page is the impression of the sections in charge of the four cities that participated in this demonstration experiments. They seem to have the impression that if the accuracy is improved, it will be fully utilized in practical operations.

As for the part to improve the accuracy of the Issue, there are some below, but I would like to say representative examples. There were errors such as recognizing houses as plastic greenhouses and pavement parts of roads as agricultural land. In particular, I have heard that there were many cases in which agricultural land and hybrid land were mistakenly recognized.

Maebashi City, which is the representative organization of this demonstration experiments, needs to improve the accuracy, and it has not yet been introduced into business operations. I have heard that it has not been introduced into other local government participating in demonstration experiments.

In addition, in other municipalities, there are places where private sector companies are ordered to take aerial photographs, compare old and new photographs, and extract the status of houses and land that have been transferred. In that case, I have heard that there are cases where the ordering company uses AI.

Next is the aerial photography of drones. We do not have any materials today, but regarding the drones photography of Yokohama-machi, Aomori, which I mentioned earlier, it seems that the photography equipment used by the contractor for aerial photography was drones, and the town did not request the use of drones.

In addition, I have asked several cities about the possibility of introducing drones. In the current drones, there is a flight altitude limit of 150 meters under the Civil Aeronautics Act, so if you want to take photos of the entire city, the number of photos will be very large compared to conventional aircraft photography. When using drones, I think there may be ways to use it based on area conditions and various other conditions. That's all for my explanation.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister . Mr. Ochiai, what do you think?

Ochiai Member: Thank you very much, Thank you for your explanation. When I heard your explanation, I was surprised to hear that the notice had been issued in 1993. I had not heard much about other ministries and agencies saying that they had issued aerial photographs at that timing, so I learned once again that in that sense, they had advanced the process very much.

In fact, I think demonstration experiments is also working on improving accuracy. I think Mr. local government, who is conducting experiments, is involved in some Mr. local government and others are not. For example, Mr. local government, who is not conducting experiments at present, is a small-scale local government. There are generally few people in such places, and there are no people who are familiar with IT and technology, so even if you want to use them in the first place, you may not know well whether it is a problem or not. I thought it would be good if you could actively summarize the contents of these efforts and the points that should be inspected in this way.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Communications and others have prepared various guidebooks and lists of business operators for such utilization, and it seems that utilization is advancing in some aspects, so I would like you to consider it from such a perspective. That is all.

Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Municipal Tax Office:

Ochiai Member: Thank you very much, . State Minister Kobayashi has just pointed out that there may be satellites as well as aerial photographs. I believe there are various ways to obtain images, so I would like you to work on supplementing notifications so that we can be neutral about that. I would like to ask for your cooperation.

Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications Municipal Tax Office: Thank you.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister Any other comments? If you have any additional comments, please contact the Secretariat.
In addition, based on your comments, we may ask the people of Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications for additional consideration. In that case, we would appreciate your cooperation.

This concludes the fourth part. Thank you very much, everyone at the Autonomous Tax Bureau. That's all. I will return the progress to Mr. Ahn Nen.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, .
The Senior Vice-Minister pointed out that there are also odor sensors, and that satellites can be used in addition to aerial photographs. It is true that spy satellites have amazing resolutions, so there may be such things. I would like the Secretariat to convey this point to the ministries and agencies in charge. As time has passed, I would like to conclude the hearing.
Finally, Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs Kobayashi would like to ask a few questions.

Senior Vice-Minister for Digital Affairs Kobayashi: Thank you very much, .
I think we were able to have a positive discussion because a positive ministry came this time, but I think it is necessary to devise how to communicate with people who say it is difficult in the future, so let's do our best.

Thank you very much for sharing and communicating that we should warm up together. Thank you very much.

Deputy Chairman Annen: Thank you very much, . As you pointed out, we had very positive people come here last time and this time, so I frankly say that I am worried about the future, but it is one of the materials for persuasion that we are doing such positive things elsewhere. I think it was good to start from a positive point. Please tell us about the next Working Group meeting from the Secretariat.

Secretariat (Takamatsu): Parliamentary Senior Vice-Minister , I understand the point you just made.
The next working group meeting will be held on Tuesday, March 15 at 10:00 a.m. Thank you very much.
Regarding today's proceedings, I believe there are no contents that are not suitable for disclosure, so I will prepare the minutes later and disclose them after everyone checks them. If you do not have any particular objection to the materials, we will disclose them all on the Digital Rincho website. Thank you very much for participating today.